barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) (02/14/91)
Check out the latest BYTE (the notebook computer issue) article on GO corp's PenPoint operating system, which is an OS + GUI meant to manage handrwritten input text on notebook/tablet computers. It would be great if NeXT developed a notebook computer for this OS. The PenPoint OS sounds pretty fancy: kernel + shell written in C, object oriented structure, multitasking (virtual mem?), small, fast (enough for realtime hand written entry---3 characters per second) and all tailored to the special needs of the notebook + handwritten entry paradigm. A part of the shell is a handwritten character recognition filter and a spelling checker/correcter. They say the shell correctly translates 4 out of 5 handwritten words on the first try, and most others with minor quick corrections. You use various proof readers sybmols to edit your input quickly, plus a few other pen strokes to control scrolling, launching apps, etc. (This is all customizable, apparently). The reason I bring this up is that GO licenses the Penpoint OS to hardware vendors, who can then put it on their platform. So far, IBM has signed on. It would be great if NeXT would too. I would much rather see a NeXT notebook with the PenPoint OS than a simple NeXT portable. Now, you might say---hey, I want the usual NeXT enviroment (unix + NextStep) on my NeXT notebook! But thats wrong thinking---thats like saying you want the NeXT environment running on the modems you use. The notebook is really more like a peripheral (that is portable and does Analog->ASCII conversion on text) device than a primary computer: its main purpose is to collect analog notes (from classes, lectures, meetings, ect) and convert them into ASCII test for ease of storage and manipulation back on the office computer. With such vastly different aims, it doesn't really need a full NeXTStep, for instance, and benefits from a more use-specific OS. In short, these tablets are not meant to be portable computers---they inhabit a different niche that can be filled more economically. They are more like portable A/D converter peripherals, and as such should be tailored to their target application (note gathering). Anyway, I hope NeXT gets into something like this---that would be really cool (not to mention useful---the academic's dream come true: a way to manage all those lecture notes!). -- Barry Merriman UCLA Dept. of Math UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet)
waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu (02/15/91)
In article <1089@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU>, barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes: > I would much rather see a NeXT notebook with the PenPoint OS > than a simple NeXT portable. > Yeah, me too (so long as it's black:-) I was excited about the PenPoint OS too. It has received a lot of other press (including a Gasee article in MacWeek). It is the only really personal computer concept going right now that is also well-mannered. That is, the so-called portable or laptop PCs that I've seen (heard) have intrusively noisey keyboards and are thereby unusable during meetings. You also won't be able to quietly take notes with your speech recognition computer either (although maybe it will be able to take the notes for you). I'm also pretty excited about the drawing tools in this environment. No GUI I've ever tried has been able to match the hand drawings I produce for sheer illegibility:^) Well, anyway, I can make them out if too much time hasn't passed and I think drawing tools will be available in the PenPoint environment that might permit me to make my drawings and then salvage them into something legible to others in a small fraction of the time it takes me to produce something with the likes of MacDraw. I'd really like to see NeXT be a player with a nice interface between my desktop NeXT and my PenPoint-based NeXT system. c.f.waltrip Internet: <waltrip@capsrv.jhuapl.edu> Opinions expressed are my own.
scott@erick.gac.edu (Scott Hess) (02/15/91)
In article <1991Feb14.154041.1@capd.jhuapl.edu> waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu writes:
I'd really like to see NeXT be a player with a nice interface between
my desktop NeXT and my PenPoint-based NeXT system.
From what I've heard (sorry, I've not yet finished the BYTE
article/section), I also think this is a good idea. Many people need
this - one machine that can go, one that can do real work. One of
the options used is to have a sort of enclosure that allows you to
plug a real monitor/keyboard/disk drive into your portable. I think
this is a bad idea, because it places too many constraints on the
machine.
Make the standing-still machine good at general stuff, make the on-the-
move machine good at taking notes and stuff. After all, people
seldom write books on a train (I know alot write columns and stuff,
or at least get started on them, but few put the _finishing_ touches
on in a train or airplane, in my experience!) Make the portable
conveinient, I guess would be the describtion.
A good use for the portable (well one of the GO type, at least) while
you're at the home console would be to plug it in and use it as a
sketch pad or digitizer pad. The software could presumably have
specialized support on it, too - for instance, a CAD program could
probably allow you to use the sketchpad/portable touchscreen as
the main mode of input. That would be _very_ interesting.
Later,
--
scott hess scott@gac.edu
Independent NeXT Developer GAC Undergrad
<I still speak for nobody>
"Tried anarchy, once. Found it had too many constraints . . ."
"Buy `Sweat 'n wit '2 Live Crew'`, a new weight loss program by
Richard Simmons . . ."gessel@ilium.cs.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Mark Gessel) (02/15/91)
As far as I'm concerned, NeXT is NeXTStep. They should spend their time putting together machines like the NeXTDimension; extensions to DPS that support 3D realtime graphics, and the hardware to do it on; coprocessor boards, with up to four 68040s; DSP boards and midi boxes so your computer can sing to songs it writes; 50Mhz 68040, and/or 88000 based machine. There's enough hardware to build to support the OS they have. If all you want is an analog -> ASCII converter, with a different OS, somebody else will build them (possibly lots of other companies), and you can buy one of theirs. Dan -- Daniel Mark Gessel Internet: gessel@cs.swarthmore.edu I do not speak (nor type) representing Swarthmore College.
louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) (02/16/91)
Is it just me, or are there any other people out there who can type much faster than they can write? I don't consider myself a fast or accurate typist, but I can still get more work done with a keyboard than with pen or pencil. This PenPoint OS sounds curious, but how many serious users are going use it instead of a Notebook sized computer with a keyboard? My hand cramps up after a long session of trying to scribble down notes at a furious pace during some techinical session. I was much more effective with a small laptop. Besides, how do you use Emacs without a control or meta key? :-) louie
ifjrs@acad3.alaska.edu (STANNARD JOHN R) (02/18/91)
In article <1089@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU>, barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes... >Check out the latest BYTE (the notebook computer issue) >article on GO corp's PenPoint operating system, which is an >OS + GUI meant to manage handrwritten input text on notebook/tablet >computers. It would >be great if NeXT developed a notebook computer for this OS. > I liked it, I liked it! > >Anyway, I hope NeXT gets into something like this---that would >be really cool (not to mention useful---the academic's dream >come true: a way to manage all those lecture notes!). > ..and LOTS of OTHER uses...as you mentioned, it's NOT a desktop- type machine (nor a workstation, etc.). How about it NeXT? >-- >Barry Merriman >UCLA Dept. of Math >UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research >barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet) -- John Stannard KL7JL@KL7JL IFJRS@ACAD3.FAI.ALASKA.EDU BITNET: IFJRS@ALASKA kl7jl.ampr.org "God is the Answer!" "Oh?? ... er, ...What was the Question?" --
mdixon@parc.xerox.com (Mike Dixon) (02/19/91)
i don't get it. why do so many people in this group seem to think that
NeXT would be uniquely qualified to build a new machine that would have
0% of its hardware or software in common with NeXT's existing product line?
yes, i'd be happy to have a machine running GO's software.
no, i don't see why NeXT should be the people to build it.
--
.mike.waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu (02/19/91)
In article <mdixon.666906987@thelonius>, mdixon@parc.xerox.com (Mike Dixon) writes: > i don't get it. why do so many people in this group seem to think that > NeXT would be uniquely qualified to build a new machine that would have > 0% of its hardware or software in common with NeXT's existing product line? Because only NeXT can be trusted to make sure it's BLACK. Actually, I've seen at least one reference to someone suggesting that the handwriting computer could be used as a peripheral to the NeXT with the ability to input handwriting or handdrawing directly. I thought that was a good idea. Personally, I was interested in seeing the two systems use common objects (handwriting objects; handdrawn objects; etc) that could be passed back and forth. Of course, if such things get to be standardized, it won't make much difference who developes the handwriting computer. But the "handwriting computer as a NeXT peripheral device" still stands as something that I think NeXT may be well- (though not uniquely-) qualified to do. c.f.waltrip Internet: <waltrip@capsrv.jhuapl.edu> Opinions expressed are my own.
gessel@ilium.cs.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Mark Gessel) (02/20/91)
The article mentions the virtual keyboard. The screen is also a touch screen. You could get qwerty or dvorak or any of your choosing, with the letters all drawn on the keyboard in the right place no matter what keyboard. Type away. I would prefer to see NeXTStep or some variation if I'm going to buy a portable from NeXT. NeXTStep would be just dandy on a portable, with handwriting recognition. I don't think it'd be hard to put a handwriting recognizer in that would convert letters to keystrokes before they went to the window server to be dispatched to applications. (Assuming the recognizing algorithms were already known). Dan -- Daniel Mark Gessel Internet: gessel@cs.swarthmore.edu I do not speak (nor type) representing Swarthmore College.
waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu (02/20/91)
In article <GESSEL.91Feb19104930@ilium.cs.swarthmore.edu>, gessel@ilium.cs.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Mark Gessel) writes: [...material deleted...] > I would prefer to see NeXTStep or some variation if I'm going to buy > a portable from NeXT. NeXTStep would be just dandy on a portable, with > handwriting recognition. I don't think it'd be hard to put a > handwriting recognizer in that would convert letters to keystrokes > before they went to the window server to be dispatched to > applications. (Assuming the recognizing algorithms were already known). That'd be great if it turns out to be true...and if it turns out to be easy to adapt Mach and Display PostScript, etc., to a notebook computer. But GO has already done the work and, unless the effort to duplicate what they've done is trivial, I would regard it as a diversion of resources that would probably be better spent on continuing development in the directions NeXT has already committed to. In particular, I regard speech recognition as important to desktop computers as handwriting recognition is to notebook computers. And NeXTstep is hardly a finished product...and neither is Mach (I would still like to see NeXT adopt OSF's OS simply because it would be easier to port the NeXTstep environment to a larger number of platforms). In short, NeXT already has a full table. I suspect they would be better off (if they can afford the capital) to give someone else their requirements for a (black:^) notebook computer with a SCSI interface capable of acting as a hand drawing and writing peripheral to a cube or slab and of producing drawing and writing objects that are compatible with definitions developed for NeXTstep and of processing text and graphic objects produced by NeXTstep. This someone else could produce the notebook computer that NeXT would market (though marketing is still not one of their strengths either). My essential point is: no idea is a good one if it diverts or dilutes NeXT's efforts from finishing what they've already started. Internet: <waltrip@capsrv.jhuapl.edu> Opinions expressed are my own.
andrew@jhereg.osa.com (Andrew C. Esh) (02/22/91)
I worked for a while in the same office as a guy who was on loan from GO, and who had a Notebook with him. Quit the unit. They were still working out a lot of the bugs when I saw it (about June of last year). I played around with it for a while. The display looks a lot like a Macintosh Portable. The user interface is a bit more complex, and it misinterpreted a lot of the strokes, but it responded well to double-taps (Double clicks) and generally got around okay. There is an external disk drive for it that is a half height 3 1/2" floppy, which attaches with a ribbon cable. It will make a great field machine, because it feels like an inch thick clipboard, and operates about the same. In a few years, the third or fourth generation of this concept will definitely be the "Knowledge Navigator." -- Andrew C. Esh andrew@osa.com Open Systems Architects, Inc. Minneapolis, MN 55416-1528 So much System, (612) 525-0000 so little CPU time...