vesper@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Greg Vesper - RMS) (02/27/91)
What's the least amount of memory I can use in a cube? I have an opitical only 030 system that does nothing but act as a printserver. It is never logged into except for administration. I've got another cube with a hard drive that I use fairly often. I'd like to bump up the memory on this machine. Can I scarf some of the memory off the optical-only system and slap it into my hard-drive system? Both systems have eight meg. Can I swipe four meg from the optical system and still have it function as a printserver? thanx for any info. -- Greg Vesper (vesper@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov) 301-286-5162 Goddard Space Flight Center; Greenbelt, Maryland "Before kingdoms change, men's hearts must change."
eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) (02/28/91)
In article <vesper.667668027@kong> vesper@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Greg Vesper - RMS) writes: >What's the least amount of memory I can use in a cube? The "supported" minimum is 8MB. If you have a NeXT laser printer attached, make that 12MB. Beware of false economy: anything less than 16MB is a *big* mistake in any NeXT. -=EPS=-
philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) (02/28/91)
In article <1372@toaster.SFSU.EDU> eps@cs.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) writes: [quotes re minimum memory for a "printer server"] >Beware of false economy: anything less than 16MB is a *big* >mistake in any NeXT. Why is 12megs a big mistake on a monochrome cube which is used by one user? Philip McDunnough philip@utstat.toronto.edu
declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) (02/28/91)
In article <1991Feb28.043153.8516@utstat.uucp>, philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes: > In article <1372@toaster.SFSU.EDU> eps@cs.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) writes: > > >Beware of false economy: anything less than 16MB is a *big* > >mistake in any NeXT. > > Why is 12megs a big mistake on a monochrome cube which is used by one > user? This is one area in which I wholeheartedly agree with Eric; when buying a NeXT system for about $3,000 - $5,000, it makes little sense to skimp on memory. You'll notice an incredible user interface performance difference going from 8 MB to 16 MB. A similar difference will be visible, though not as dramatic, at 12 MB. Why? NeXT applications, even with shared libraries in 2.0, run large. The WindowServer is gigantic - I've seen it use up to 15 MB on a 32 MB NeXTstation Color (though this admittedly may be an extreme example). The Workspace Manager takes a Megabyte or two as well. If you use only one application, you may be satisfied with your system's performance at 8 MB; if you use more than one at one time, you'll be swapping a lot. Especially if you have a cube, spend the extra $250 or so to get 16 MB. If you have a monochrome NeXTstation, you have a more difficult choice - throw away/sell four 1 MB SIMMs and replace with four 4 MB SIMMs at a cost of about $780. If you can, borrow memory from a friend and see what kind of difference it makes. -Declan PS: On my system, 'ps aux' reports Preferences as using about 880 KB of "real" memory. Let's assume that there are 30,000 NeXT systems out there, with about 25,000 usually running Preferences upon login. That's about 22,000 MB of RAM, or about 22 GB of RAM used to display that many clocks. Wow.
eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) (02/28/91)
In article <1991Feb28.043153.8516@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes: >Why is 12megs a big mistake on a monochrome cube which is used by one >user? Try it and watch what happens (you can artifically lower the amount of memory Mach thinks it has at boot time). When you don't have enough memory, your machine has to page from (and to) disk. When your 15 MIPS 68040 machine is page- thrashing, it's a 0 MIPS machine. If that's your idea of acceptable performance, you can save a bundle by buying a Mac Classic instead. Don't skimp! -=EPS=- -- There's an aftermarket for used NeXT 1MB SIMMs... unless you were foolish enough to order NeXTstation Color with 12MB.
madler@pooh.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) (02/28/91)
>> This is one area in which I wholeheartedly agree with Eric; when >> buying a NeXT system for about $3,000 - $5,000, it makes little sense >> to skimp on memory. Yep, it's true. I bought 8M of 1Mx8's for $340. Only five of the eight worked, so I sent three back for replacement. As a result, I ran at 12M for about a week, and then I was up to 16M. Both times (8M to 12M and 12M to 16M), I noticed a significant improvement in speed. I normally have about 9 to 12 applications launched (including Workspace and Preferences). The only time now that I would like to have *more* than 16M is when I'm doing large Mathematica calculations. Then I notice some serious swapping. I believe that 8M is barely adequate for normal use of a single user NeXT. The price differential to move up is well worth it. As for the original question that started this thread, "Can you run a NeXT at 4M?" I can't see why not. vm_stat reports that a little over a meg is wired down, so that is not a limitation. It is a virtual memory operating system after all, so it shouldn't matter how much real memory you have if you don't care about speed. The fellow who was asking wanted to use the 4M machine just for printing, and use the leftover 4M to bring the NeXT he actually uses up to 12M. This thread is recommending that, assuming he can't cough up the $170 to just buy 4M, that is. As to whether the 4M print server will actually be useful, you'd just have to try. I'd like to know if he does try and what happens. Mark Adler madler@pooh.caltech.edu
eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) (02/28/91)
Do you want an 8-pages-per-minute laser printer or a page-every-2-minutes laser printer? I'm not being facetious. -=EPS=-
death@btr.btr.com (david john burrowes) (03/01/91)
In reply to: >From: eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) >Do you want an 8-pages-per-minute laser printer or a >page-every-2-minutes laser printer? >I'm not being facetious. On the other hand, if the printer isn't being used to generate printouts that are needed for immediate proofing or for reports due 5 minutes ago, and money for new RAM isn't magically appearing where none was before, it may well be that a 2 minute per page printer (or even slower) is quite acceptable if it means speeding one's own machine up a bit. I'd certainly prefer it in those circumstances. \david
declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) (03/01/91)
In article <Feb.28.01.10.04.1991.28898@remus.rutgers.edu>, declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) writes: > PS: On my system, 'ps aux' reports Preferences as using about 880 KB of > "real" memory. Let's assume that there are 30,000 NeXT systems out > there, with about 25,000 usually running Preferences upon login. > That's about 22,000 MB of RAM, or about 22 GB of RAM used to > display that many clocks. Wow. I'd like to correct myself and add that the size listed by 'ps' is a bit misleading. According to NeXT Software Engineering, Preferences usually used only 8 or 9 pages (64-72KB) for its own use (the rest is mapped into Preferences' address space from the shared libraries). So that leaves us with a realistic figure closer to 1.7 GB, not 22 GB... -Declan
ifjrs@acad3.alaska.edu (STANNARD JOHN R) (03/01/91)
In article <1991Feb28.043153.8516@utstat.uucp>, philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes... >In article <1372@toaster.SFSU.EDU> eps@cs.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) writes: > >[quotes re minimum memory for a "printer server"] > >>Beware of false economy: anything less than 16MB is a *big* >>mistake in any NeXT. > >Why is 12megs a big mistake on a monochrome cube which is used by one >user? > >Philip McDunnough >philip@utstat.toronto.edu I am a single Cube user; I have a NeXT Laser Printer; I have only 8 megs memory. So far, I've experienced no particular problems or excessive waits to do anything. The only excessive waiting I've had to do is to receive my '040 & 2.0. On the other hand, I'm not using the Cube as a printer server. John -- John Stannard ifjrs@acad3.fai.alaska.edu BITNET: IFJRS@ALASKA KL7JL@KL7JL.AK.USA.NA kl7jl.ampr.org [44.22.0.1] "God is the Answer!" "Oh?? ... er, ... What was the Question?" --
madler@pooh.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) (03/01/91)
John Stannard thinks its fast already: >> I am a single Cube user; I have a NeXT Laser Printer; I have only >> 8 megs memory. So far, I've experienced no particular problems or >> excessive waits to do anything. Good point. An 040 with 8M running 2.0 does seem rather fast. That is, until you've used an 040 with 16M. If you have, and then go use one with 8M, you'll find yourself (well, at least I found myself) tapping the mouse case impatiently a lot of the time. >> The only excessive waiting I've >> had to do is to receive my '040 & 2.0. Haven't we all ... Mark Adler madler@pooh.caltech.edu
isbell@ucscf.UCSC.EDU (Art Isbell) (03/02/91)
In article <1374@toaster.SFSU.EDU> eps@cs.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) writes: > >When you don't have enough memory, your machine has to page >from (and to) disk. When your 15 MIPS 68040 machine is page- >thrashing, it's a 0 MIPS machine. If that's your idea of >acceptable performance, you can save a bundle by buying a Mac >Classic instead. > >Don't skimp! > > -=EPS=- >-- >There's an aftermarket for used NeXT 1MB SIMMs... unless you were >foolish enough to order NeXTstation Color with 12MB. OK, OK, I repent!! I have *secretly* been running my Cube at home since last June with only 8 MB of RAM. I can no longer sleep because of guilt caused by thinking of my poor 330 MB Maxtor thrashing itself to death :-) Someone please help me!! Sell me those old, lo-tech (but not defective), 1 MB SIMM's that you removed from your NeXT so you could install those nifty, new, hi-tech 4 MB SIMM's. I will buy either 4 or 8, but I don't really place any value on a SIMM being a *genuine* OEM NeXT part; i.e., I won't pay more for your used SIMM's than the cost of new 3rd-party SIMM's with a guarantee. So send my email with what you want to sell for what price. I am the aftermarket for your 1 MB SIMM's that -=EPS=- referred to, but only for that seller who acts quickly and reasonably! -- _____ ____ Art Isbell |\ | | | | \ 315 Moon Meadow Lane NeXT Registered Developer | \ | ___ |____| | | Felton, CA isbell@ucscf.UCSC.EDU | \ | |___| | \ | | 95018-9442 (408)438-4736(B) | \| |___ | \ |___/ (408)335-1154(H)
n67786@lehtori.tut.fi (Tero Nieminen) (03/03/91)
In article <1374@toaster.SFSU.EDU> eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) writes:
Try it and watch what happens (you can artifically lower the
amount of memory Mach thinks it has at boot time).
When you don't have enough memory, your machine has to page
from (and to) disk. When your 15 MIPS 68040 machine is page-
thrashing, it's a 0 MIPS machine. If that's your idea of
acceptable performance, you can save a bundle by buying a Mac
Classic instead.
Don't skimp!
So right. We have a MIPS 6000 series computer at school with 128 megs of
ram and with 72 users on it it does not swap at all and the response
times are great even if the load is up to 20. That is entirely because
it's not swapping. Also swapping is much faster if you can give it disc
that's not used for other things..
--
Tero Nieminen Tampere University of Technology
n67786@cc.tut.fi Tampere, Finland, Europe