dahla@yoda.byu.edu (03/30/91)
Well I was up late last night trying to use my new copy of Improv to generate some power curves. I am an avid Excel user and hoped that catching on to Improv without reading all off the pages would be a sinch. Well, no luck. It appears that Improv will only plot things that say sales, quarters, and distributtion costs. It appears that Lotus and NeXT are going after a new market of NeXT users. Why don't we here from those business oriented Improv lovers on the net? Just a flame after a lost night of endless data manipulation. dahla@yoda.byu.edu BTW - tell me where the hidden undo command is if you find it
izumi@mindseye.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) (03/30/91)
In article <441dahla@yoda.byu.edu> dahla@yoda.byu.edu writes: >Well I was up late last night trying to use my new copy of Improv to generate >some power curves. I am an avid Excel user and hoped that catching on to >Improv without reading all off the pages would be a sinch. Well, no luck. It >appears that Improv will only plot things that say sales, quarters, and >distributtion costs. >It appears that Lotus and NeXT are going after a new market of NeXT users. >Why don't we here from those business oriented Improv lovers on the net? I've never seen ANY spread sheet which has graphing format I need. Your comments on Improv don't surprise me. I've given up on relying on those programs for graphs a long time ago. What the developers can and should do is to provide hooks to which 3-rd party develpers and users can attach a custom plotting module. Why nobody has such a thing? Izumi Ohzawa [ $@Bg_78^=;(J ] USMail: University of California, 360 Minor Hall, Berkeley, CA 94720 Telephone: (415) 642-6440 Fax: (415) 642-3323 Internet: izumi@violet.berkeley.edu NeXTmail: izumi@pinoko.berkeley.edu
zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu (Andrew Zimmerman) (03/30/91)
In article <1991Mar30.032849.2659@agate.berkeley.edu> izumi@mindseye.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes: >In article <441dahla@yoda.byu.edu> dahla@yoda.byu.edu writes: >>Well I was up late last night trying to use my new copy of Improv to generate >>some power curves. I am an avid Excel user and hoped that catching on to >>Improv without reading all off the pages would be a sinch. Well, no luck. It >>appears that Improv will only plot things that say sales, quarters, and >>distributtion costs. >>It appears that Lotus and NeXT are going after a new market of NeXT users. >>Why don't we here from those business oriented Improv lovers on the net? > > >What the developers can and should do is to provide hooks >to which 3-rd party develpers and users can attach >a custom plotting module. >Why nobody has such a thing? > >Izumi Ohzawa [ $@Bg_78^=;(J ] Couple of comments here. ( I am disappointed with Improv also. :-) 1. Improv does allow the user to do scatter plots. This allows a value axis on the x-axis, so you can do log-log, etc. Unfortunately, the points can't be connected with lines. 2. Improv might provide the hooks. In the redme file, it mentions a thing called the API disk. I called Improv and they said they would send me info. (That was a couple of weeks ago.) 3. Figuring that Improv was a lost cause, I gave the people at WingZ a call. Turns out that WingZ only runs under 1.0, and even then, they are having trouble shipping. (Some lame excuse about not being able to get OD's) 4. When I asked the net for a good (presentation quality) graphing program, I got a lot of replies about gnuplot. (Thanks to Mark Adler's email, it wasn't too hard to get up and running.) Although it is not bad, it isn't presentation quality, and on the NeXT it isn't interactive. (if it is, send email. :-) 5. One other person, Marko, sent me a nice little program he said he had thrown together. It would be a nice starting place. 6. I have also heard that PowerPoint has been delayed, if not canceled. I have also heard from a CC that he had a Beta release. 7. Lest people think I am being harsh on NeXT for a lack of a spreadsheet, I have yet to find a decent spreadsheet for any Unix (mach) box. (I was testing WingZ on a DEC Station today. Wow, that was fun. :-( ) My officemate had the best comment. He wonders why Lotus just didn't do a cc on 1-2-3 for the NeXT. only half :-) Andrew zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu
hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy)) (03/30/91)
Re gnuplot: In addition to postscript it also generates LaTeX files, which are quite presentable, and can be included directly in publications (provided you use LaTeX, of course). I have produced quite decent transparencies this way. Hardy -------****------- Meinhard E. Mayer (Prof.) Department of Physics, University of California Irvine CA 92717;(714) 856 5543; hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu or MMAYER@UCI.BITNET
jim@ljkiraly.lerc.nasa.gov (L J "Jim" Kiraly) (03/30/91)
In article <1991Mar30.053149.14485@neon.Stanford.EDU> zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu (Andrew Zimmerman) writes: STUFF DELETED >3. Figuring that Improv was a lost cause, I gave the people at WingZ a call. -> Turns out that WingZ only runs under 1.0, and even then, they are having -> trouble shipping. (Some lame excuse about not being able to get OD's) ->Andrew ->zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu Not so. My version of Wingz works under NS 2.0. I may not be using all the the features- but all of the normal stuff works OK. I do get stange console messages with it and some other applications like: cheap: dropping extra collection sequence=17 the likes of which I can't figure out- but it doesn't seem to effect operations at all- at least not directly. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Jim Kiraly - jim@ljkiraly.lerc.nasa.gov - NASA Lewis Research Center ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eboltz@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Eric Scott Boltz) (03/31/91)
It is quite true (and EXTREMELY unfortunate) that Improv does not do scientific type graphing. Here's how I get around this: First I have my program save the data in .txt file/format, then I import to Improv and use the formula capabilities to get data that will be 'plot-able' and then cut/paste into Edit. After saving the Edit file I use gnuplot to create my plots and bingo, I'm done. It is quite a pain this way, but it works well. Hope this helps and I hope we get something better than Improv SOON. Eric S. Boltz 102 Maryland Hall Materials Science and Engineering The Johns Hopkins University Baltimore, MD 21218 (eboltz@cndenext.mrs.jhu.edu)
petrilli@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Chris Petrilli) (03/31/91)
Izumi Ohzawa writes: >I've never seen ANY spread sheet which has graphing format I need. >Your comments on Improv don't surprise me. >I've given up on relying on those programs for graphs a long time ago. > >What the developers can and should do is to provide hooks >to which 3-rd party develpers and users can attach >a custom plotting module. >Why nobody has such a thing? I agree... nobody knows what I really need... As to 3-rd party additions, at the last NeXT UG meeting here, Lotus said that they are going to provide a "developer's interface" to Improv in the next release, so that should solve that problem. Chris -- + Chris Petrilli | Internet: petrilli@gnu.ai.mit.edu + Insert silly disclaimer drivel here.
rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) (03/31/91)
In article <1991Mar30.032849.2659@agate.berkeley.edu> izumi@mindseye.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes: >[stuff about Improv deleted] >What the developers can and should do is to provide hooks >to which 3-rd party develpers and users can attach >a custom plotting module. >Why nobody has such a thing? If you would care to read the release notes to Improv, you would find that Lotus did exactly that. Just go ahead and order your API disk. Ronald ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet
rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) (03/31/91)
In article <1991Mar30.053149.14485@neon.Stanford.EDU> zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu (Andrew Zimmerman) writes: >3. Figuring that Improv was a lost cause, I gave the people at WingZ a call. > Turns out that WingZ only runs under 1.0, and even then, they are having > trouble shipping. (Some lame excuse about not being able to get OD's) WingZ runs as perfectly as ever (what ever that means) on the NeXT even under 2.0. I'm doing this right now, so if Informix can tell me why they think it does not work under 2.0, I'd be interested... Any spreadsheet is primarily a financial planning instrument. As such Improv is really great, and far better than anything else out there. If you want to use spreadsheets for scientific data, then you probably have to write your own extensions. Ronald ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet
bhughes@informix.com (Blake Hughes) (04/05/91)
In article <70370@brunix.UUCP> rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) writes: >In article <1991Mar30.053149.14485@neon.Stanford.EDU> zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu (Andrew Zimmerman) writes: >>3. Figuring that Improv was a lost cause, I gave the people at WingZ a call. >> Turns out that WingZ only runs under 1.0, and even then, they are having >> trouble shipping. (Some lame excuse about not being able to get OD's) >WingZ runs as perfectly as ever (what ever that means) on the NeXT >even under 2.0. I'm doing this right now, so if Informix can tell me >why they think it does not work under 2.0, I'd be interested... ... >Ronald Wingz works for me under 2.0 also, but as of a few weeks ago, it has not been through the QA cycle. Once QA has put it through the ringers and they don't discover anything major, then Informix can stamp it as compatible. Blake