rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) (12/18/90)
Someone who knows the old and the new keyboards please answer this question: Is it true as someone else posted that the feel of the keyboard got cheaper? I hope not! The NeXT keyboard feel is the only I ever liked except for the keyboard of my ancient Commodore 64-sx, a beast of which I'm not even sure they sold it in the states (portable version of C-64 that had a very good keyboard in contrast to the awful keybord on the original c-64). Just don't tell me that "because of the demand of business users" we have now to endure that ridiculous klicking we are used from PCs. Ronald PS: It seems to be a tendency that if something is perfect, there are a couple of people that have the drive to change it because they don't want to get started on the things that really need work... or so it seems. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet
louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) (12/18/90)
If you dislike the new keyboard as much as I do, then perhaps you should let your local NeXT salesdroid an "Campus representative" know how you feel. I feel that I've been the victim of a bait-and-switch; all of the NeXTstation demo units have had the old keyboard, as well as the pictures visable in the glossies for the NeXTstation. I don't understand why computer companies feel free to diddle the keyboard design out from under their customers. How would you feel if they decided that a long, skinny monitor was "better" and an "improvement", and "compatible with Internationalization" than the normal size monitors? The NeXT is a pretty good UNIX platform and one of the best TeX platforms that I've ever used. That why I bought one of my own. How someone could take the '|' for pipes and '\' for escapes and banish them to the numeric keypad is beyond imagination. They certainly didn't ask anyone that programmed on the beast or even used a UNIX shell. I'm just annoyed now. Just wait until I actually take delivery of the silly thing! "Sometime this week." I've been told... louie
lacsap@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Pascal Chesnais) (12/18/90)
In article <59719@brunix.UUCP>, rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) writes: > Someone who knows the old and the new keyboards please answer this question: > Is it true as someone else posted that the feel of the keyboard got cheaper? I have been working with the new NextStation keyboard for about a week. It feels different, but I would not call it "cheap". I actually find it ok to use, and a bit better than my old keyboard... However the real problem is the stupid "|\" key being moved away! Also control-return once again generates control-C... It did this in .9 but not in 1.0... I think someone will probably post a keymap to get rid of this!!! pasc -- Pascal Chesnais, Research Specialist, Electronic Publishing Group Media Laboratory, E15-348, 20 Ames Street, Cambridge, Ma, 02139 (617) 253-0311 email: lacsap@plethora.media.mit.edu (NeXT)
declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) (12/18/90)
In article <4538@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>, lacsap@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Pascal Chesnais) writes: > to use, and a bit better than my old keyboard... However the real > problem is the stupid "|\" key being moved away! Also control-return > once again generates control-C... It did this in .9 but not in 1.0... > I think someone will probably post a keymap to get rid of this!!! I just tried this. Unfortunately, the /NextDeveloper/Demos/Keyboard application doesn't seem to let you do this. It does let you change the mapping of virtually every other key sequence on the keyboard, but not Control-Return. Also, in an earlier message, louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) complained about the new layout of the keyboard. It's very painless to remap the keyboard in 2.0 - just drag the key symbol to the correct place on the keyboard. In fact, my keyboard right now is mapped to Control-] (BracketRight) = | (Bar). Declan McCullagh Independent NeXT Developer
louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) (12/18/90)
In article <Dec.18.03.10.19.1990.14075@remus.rutgers.edu>, declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) writes: >Also, in an earlier message, louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) >complained about the new layout of the keyboard. It's very painless >to remap the keyboard in 2.0 - just drag the key symbol to the correct >place on the keyboard. In fact, my keyboard right now is mapped to >Control-] (BracketRight) = | (Bar). Of course this solution is less than optimal if you like to use telnet, because control-] is the default telnet escape character. I think keyboard remapping is wonderful; it just wish they had left the key in place. The keyboard wasn't broke; it didn't need fixing. My original cube's keyboard has worked fine since we received the machine after it was announced. NeXT could have expended effort to put better quality microswitches in the mouse instead if they felt compelled to change the user interface hardware; I find that the left mouse button on my Cube's mouse bounces quite a bit now. Anyone else experience this problem? louie
rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) (12/19/90)
In article <Dec.18.03.10.19.1990.14075@remus.rutgers.edu> declan@remus.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) writes: >Also, in an earlier message, louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) >complained about the new layout of the keyboard. It's very painless >to remap the keyboard in 2.0 - just drag the key symbol to the correct >place on the keyboard. In fact, my keyboard right now is mapped to >Control-] (BracketRight) = | (Bar). It is completely irrelevant how easy it is to change the keymappings. First no everyone is a touch typist and thus wants to trust his eyes when it comes to the keymappings, and as long as NeXT does not have small LCDs in each of the keys that automatically change with the mapping then remapping does not solve this problem. Second, if you have to switch accounts once in a while or work at different sites, then the "user interface consitency" is close to zero since now everyone will put the |\ at a different place. Ronald ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet
tilley@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Richard Tilley) (12/20/90)
In <1990Dec18.141803.14012@ni.umd.edu> louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) writes: .. >The keyboard wasn't broke; it didn't need fixing. My original cube's .. Is there a PS2/Mac-extended keyboard for the NeXT? I want to have the caps-lock key in its traditional place. No. That is not what I meant to say. I really want all the keyboards I use to be the same. It just won't do, to have the same key sequence produce an uppercase H ON ONE KEYBOARD, AND A BACKSPACE ON ANOTHER. If all keyboards had the control key beside the A, that would be fine too. But they don't. And they won't :-(
barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) (04/10/91)
In article <1991Apr9.122402.5072@wam.umd.edu> mikec@wam.umd.edu (Michael D. Callaghan) writes: > >Just a question, since I'm not selling mine, but would there be a market >for an old keyboard if I were willing to sell one? If so, how much of a >market? I'll give you one nearly new "new keyboard" and $25 for an old keyboard (in good shape). -- Barry Merriman UCLA Dept. of Math UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet)
welles@cyclone (Robert Welles) (04/11/91)
In article <1991Apr9.201449.25220@math.ucla.edu> barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes: > In article <1991Apr9.122402.5072@wam.umd.edu> mikec@wam.umd.edu (Michael D. Callaghan) writes: > > > >Just a question, since I'm not selling mine, but would there be a market > >for an old keyboard if I were willing to sell one? If so, how much of a > >market? > > I'll give you one nearly new "new keyboard" and $25 for > an old keyboard (in good shape). > In case some keyboard entrepreneur is monitoring this thread and has plans for capturing a sizable portion of the 500,000 projected NeXT units to be shipped in 91 I would like to make a sincere request for an optional keyboard without the numeric key pad. I am experiencing repetitive motion problems caused by having to move so far to get to the mouse.
blissmer@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Kevin) (04/11/91)
>In case some keyboard entrepreneur is monitoring this thread and has plans >for capturing a sizable portion of the 500,000 projected NeXT units to be >shipped in 91 I would like to make a sincere request for an optional keyboard >without the numeric key pad. I am experiencing repetitive motion problems >caused by having to move so far to get to the mouse. Why not have future NeXTs come with ADB. Apple seems much more willing to license these technologies and it would open up a wide realm of input devices to the NeXT. They keyboard you are looking for exists for ADB and PC and is called the Switchboard (built with modules for f-keys, number pad, trackball etc.) by Datadesk.
tilley@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Richard Tilley) (04/12/91)
In <10040@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> blissmer@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Kevin) writes: >>In case some keyboard entrepreneur is monitoring this thread and has plans >>for capturing a sizable portion of the 500,000 projected NeXT units to be >>shipped in 91 I would like to make a sincere request for an optional keyboard >>without the numeric key pad. I am experiencing repetitive motion problems >>caused by having to move so far to get to the mouse. The number of "favorite keyboards" is exactly equal to the total number of unique keyboards ever produced. Mine is the original Mac keyboard that came with the 128, 512, and, i think, 512E. The mouse was right next to the return key. >Why not have future NeXTs come with ADB. Apple seems much more willing to >license these technologies and it would open up a wide realm of input devices >to the NeXT. A common suggestion. I expect zero people would disagree. It is also frequently pointed out that it is easy to learn a new keyboard. This is also true. What is not easy is changing on a daily basis. It is much more important for all keyboards to be similar than to have the keys in the "right place". Even the new keyboard would be OK if PC's, Macs, Suns used a similar one. They won't. That is why it is such a mistake.
dboyes@brazos.rice.edu (David Boyes) (04/19/91)
In article <1991Apr12.051725.3201@ccu.umanitoba.ca> tilley@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Richard Tilley) writes: >>Why not have future NeXTs come with ADB. Apple seems much more willing to >>license these technologies and it would open up a wide realm of input devices >>to the NeXT. Two simple arguments against the Apple Desktop Bus: 1) Would *you* want to put a critical feature of your machine -- the interconnection of peripherals, especially important ones like the keyboard and pointing device -- under the control of a *another* company, especially a company that tends to make rapid, incompatible changes to hardware and software to force upgrades? 2) Would you want to pay license fees for a technology to a company that you founded and got forced out of? I think not. -- David Boyes |The three most dangerous things in the world: dboyes@rice.edu | 1) a programmer with a soldering iron, | 2) a hardware type with a program patch, and "Delays, delays!" | 3) a user with an idea.