ijk@hropus.UUCP (Ihor J. Kinal) (12/26/85)
If you've been at all observant, you may have noticed that 86 cars have a third brake light, per BIG BROTHER. Supposedly they significantly reduce rear-enders, and seem like a very good idea (although, once the novelty wears off, the effect may diminish; I also don't like the placement & styling of some, like the Camaro's, but that's another story). Even if the novelty does wear off, there remain a couple of good points: first, the light is frequently seen thru several cars windshields, which should help in heave traffic; second, the lights can usually be seen dimly in the rear-view mirror (this lets the driver know if he has a blown fuse/ defective brake switch; honestly, when was the last time YOU checked your brake light???). Finally, for cars with integrated turn/signals & brake light, the emergency flasher will activate this lite as well. So what can you do about it??? It turns out that it is fairly simple to add one of these lights yourself (the only major problems are feeding wires down for a hatchback, or feeding wires thru the rear deck in a normal sedan). The cost of various units ranges from $10-20 bucks in various auto stores, etc (The 10 buck unit was from a Strauss store in NYC, and had everything the $20 buck unit did, including control module). If you have separate (usually amber turn signals), then you only need two wires; otherwise a control module is needed (some sort 'and' gate) if you hook up to your taillights (if that's not convenient, one can also find the brake-light switch under the brake pedal and run a wire from there); that may be more convenient on some cars (that's what I did on my 75 'Vette); if you need the control model, check to see that the package comes with one. I've installed 3 so far, and the average installation time was 30 minutes; I firmly believe that it was well worth the time and money. Ihor Kinal houxm!hropus!ijk
mikey@techsup (12/29/85)
I'm putting one on my car. I think it is the PERFECT place to hide a radar detector. Inside the car, unaffected by the elements, disguised for theft prevention and CT police antics, and still an almost unrestricted view forward if mounted at the top center of the rear window. What more could anyone want? I'm going to modify one of the new tiny superhets and put an indicator panel down low on the dash where it can't easily be spotted! mikey trsvax!techsup!bbimg!mikey ps. 55, it's not just a good idea, it S*CKS!!
hodor@hplabsb.UUCP (01/03/86)
> If you've been at all observant, you may have noticed that 86 cars have > a third brake light, per BIG BROTHER. Supposedly they significantly > reduce rear-enders, and seem like a very good idea.... Why do we need another light? Who came up with this one? Seeing some of the third brake lights it reminds me of a police car. Maybe this is the reason for reducing rear-enders. If people see something like a "cherry top" their brains would alert them to not hitting a police car. As the initial effect of this light wears off we may be stuck with another additional cost for our cars.
bde@ihlpl.UUCP (Ewbank) (01/03/86)
> > If you've been at all observant, you may have noticed that 86 cars have > > a third brake light, per BIG BROTHER. Supposedly they significantly > > reduce rear-enders, and seem like a very good idea.... > > Why do we need another light? Who came up with this one? . . . As the original poster said, the third brake light "significantly reduces rear-enders." I've noticed that you can see the third eye of the car that is two cars up from you. This gives you an early warning system. Also, all of those third eyes are in roughly the same place (in the center of your vision), so you know when ANY car close in front of you is braking. -- Bryan D. Ewbank >> one line generic disclamer here << # AT&T Bell Labs IH 6M-523 # ...!ihnp4!ihlpl!bde # # Naperville-Wheaton Rd. # # # Naperville, Illinois 60566 # 5813 Oakwood, Apt. E # # (312) 979 - 4296 # Lisle, Illinois 60532 #
chuq@sun.uucp (Chuq Von Rospach) (01/03/86)
> > If you've been at all observant, you may have noticed that 86 cars have > > a third brake light, per BIG BROTHER. Supposedly they significantly > > reduce rear-enders, and seem like a very good idea.... > > Why do we need another light? Who came up with this one? Seeing some > of the third brake lights it reminds me of a police car. Maybe this is > the reason for reducing rear-enders. The Big Brother is the NHTSA, and the studies have shown a 50% reduction in rear-end accidents when there is a brake light visible at viewing level. It isn't because it looks like a police car, but simply because you see if it you are looking beyond the car in front of you -- the lower brake lights can get missed if you aren't paying attention to them. -- :From catacombs of Castle Tarot: Chuq Von Rospach sun!chuq@decwrl.DEC.COM {hplabs,ihnp4,nsc,pyramid}!sun!chuq It's not looking, it's heat seeking.
jedi@cuuxb.UUCP (jedi) (01/03/86)
Why a third brake light? It saved me from an accident! Travelling at night
on a dimly light road, the car in front of me stops, he has NO BRAKE LIGHTS!
How did I stop in time? Well, I saw through his rear window & windshield,
and saw the third light of the CAR IN FRONT OF HIM! This allowed me to slow
down in enough time, since I knew that the car two cars ahead was stopping.
If not for this, I probably would have hit the fool in front of me (we were
on a 45MPH road, doing the speed limit, I was about 5 car lengths behind).
[By the way, this is exactly what the government intended!!]
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############################################################################mikey@techsup (01/07/86)
Pennsylvania State Police experimented with roof level brake/flasher lights back in the early 70's. The result? Accidents involving cruisers being rear ended and officer injuries took a nose-dive. As a result, ALL Pennsylvania State Police marked vehicles have had these extra lights since. It actually is a great idea. mikey trsvax!techsup!bbimg!mikey
ijk@hropus.UUCP (Ihor J. Kinal) (01/08/86)
I'm the original poster of this article; since then (about a week after I posted, and perhaps 3 weeks after I installed the first one on my wife's car) I noticed that the light wasn't working (as I said in the article, it's usually noticeable, especially at night. The cheaper unit I bought had an extra piece of plactic bonded to the lens and fed thru the back - this one is real easy to see when it lights up, and I highly recommend it; if anyone wants it, I'll check the brand name). When I got home, I checked, only to find that the brake switch was shot!! So, I possibly prevented someone from ramming into my wife's car by rapidly detecting the loss of functionality. As I said before, how OFTEN DO YOU CHECK TO SEE IF YOUR brake lights are working????????? Now, I do it every time I break (almost). Ihor Kinal houxm!hropus!ijk P.S. One additional point: these lights, if installed properly, only activate in case of braking. This helps for the typical American car without separate turn signals, to signal that you are braking and not making a turn (by this I mean , sometimes a person has one brake light burnt out, or is simultaneously hitting the turn signal and the brakes; it can take a second longer to realize what's going on, and by then you're 88 feet further down the road...)
btl@mtunf.UUCP (Bernie Lee) (01/09/86)
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
As we all know, all 1986 cars that are sold in the US will have
a third brake light to prevent rear end type of accidents. Initially,
I did not care about them one way or the other. After seeing some cars
with them, I have a few question and gripes about them.
1. Some cars have them in the strangest places, ex: the new Mercedes coupe
has it mounted on top of the trunk. I personally think is ugly,
especially on a car with that kind of great looks. Why didn't they
put it on the rear deck inside the cabinet? Worse yet, the 86
Camaros has it on top of the rear hatch. Aside from looks and
glass replacement cost, it is right in your line of sight.
Combining the location and brightness of the light, you are blinded
by them at night. You can neither see through the window of the car
in front of you nor anything else surrounding you. Therefore takes
away the time that you need to survey the situation and perform
an escape from the car behind you that appear to be ignorant about
the situation on hand.
2. Are there any regulation governing the location and brightness
of these lights? I was in a traffic jam the other night with
a car that has one of those light right in front of me. It is an
older car, so, I assume it must be an add-on. It was so bright
and annoying after five minutes that I began to look away from
where my attention should be, the front of my car. After ten minutes
I felt as though I been driving for four hours on a dark road.
Has anyone done any research on the effectiveness of these lights
vs. eye fatigue?
3. I read a comment the other day that if someone has one of those
semi-functioning brake light (dim , borken or that it doesn't
work at all) had one of these add-on's might prevent an accident.
The idea is good but in reality, you think these people might try
to fix their OEM brake lights first before spending more money
and time to install a new light. And if they don't care about
their brake light works or not, I doubt very much they are going
to install a third one.
4. My proposal for the issues above:
LOOKS DEPT- Intergate the light onto the top of the rear panel
of the trunk lid or hatch lid, I notice some
manufacturer had already done that.
FUNCTIONNALITY- Design it so it will only come on during an
emergencey stop. Use brake peddle pressure,
brake peddle travel. I don't think it would
cost that much more than their design at present.
Develope regulation governing the brightness,
the lense of these light. It might be easier to
live with.
THE ABOVE COMMENTS ARE ONLY MY OPINIONSdaw1@mhuxl.UUCP (WILLIAMS) (01/10/86)
> As I said before, how > OFTEN DO YOU CHECK TO SEE IF YOUR brake lights are working????????? Why every time my driver pulls the Rolls into the garage I can see if the brake lights are working :-) 1 1 1 1 2 1 Doug Williams 1 3 3 1 AT&T Bell Labs 1 4 6 4 1 Reading, PA 1 5 10 10 5 1 mhuxl!daw1 1 6 15 20 15 6 1
jedi@cuuxb.UUCP (jedi) (01/11/86)
How often do I check if my brake lights are working? Every time I hit the
brakes. My Chrysler Laser XE Turbo's computer command center has sensors
in series with the brake lights, headlights, and tail lamps. If for any
reason the lights are out (ie no complete circuit), the computer will
sound a chime and display the words " ----- light out " where ----- is
the type of light out!! (Pretty neat, huh?)
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############################################################################alw@mit-eddie.UUCP (Alan Wu) (01/11/86)
In article <3109@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.uucp (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >The Big Brother is the NHTSA, and the studies have shown a 50% reduction in >rear-end accidents when there is a brake light visible at viewing level. It >isn't because it looks like a police car, but simply because you see if it you >are looking beyond the car in front of you -- the lower brake lights can get >missed if you aren't paying attention to them. I think there are several reasons that third brake lights work, beyond simple novelty. 1. They are at eye level, in the center of the following driver's field of vision. 2. They can be seen through the windshields of several cars in a row. This gives drivers further back additional time to react, and reduces the likelihood of "chain reaction" collisions. 3. Perhaps most important, they are OFF at all times EXCEPT when the brakes are applied. The transition from off to on is much easier to perceive and interpret than a change in brightness (especially when the latter may be accompanied by a blinking turn signal). Third brake lights work and are very cost-effective. I installed one on my new car 3 years ago, and have experienced several incidents that would have been rear-end collisions were it not for the additional safety margin afforded by third brake lights. The most notable incident occurred when my wife stopped at a traffic light last fall. The kids behind us were going maybe 30 mph and were not paying much attention (they were lost). I saw some headlights rush up behind us, heard the tires screech, and braced for a violent impact. The crunch that happened was almost an anticlimax, in view of what could have happened. When I got out, I initially had trouble identifying where the impact had occurred. What I discovered was that the right headlight of their car had hit our license plate, which is mounted completely *below the bumper*. In other words, the driver behind us had braked so hard (while swerving to the left) that the front end of his car had "dived" more than 2 feet before impact! If he had delayed a fraction of a second more before hitting the brakes, his car would have come to rest 1 or 2 feet *inside* the rear end of our car. We considered ourselves quite fortunate to come away with a broken license plate lamp, a broken license plate frame, and a dented license plate as the only casualties. -- --Alan Wu UUCP: alw@mit-eddie.uucp ARPA: alw@eddie.mit.edu.arpa
jim@sivax.UUCP (Jim Boman) (01/14/86)
Alan Wu tells us: > Third brake lights work and are very cost-effective. I installed one > on my new car 3 years ago, and have experienced several incidents that > would have been rear-end collisions were it not for the additional > safety margin afforded by third brake lights. It seems logical that *any* driver who experiences *several* incidents where a rear end type of collision was eminent should perhaps modify his (or her) driving habits to make such collision avoidance unnecessary. I know..I know. What can you do to keep some doehead from rearranging your trunk? Several things. Don't stay too close to the guy in front of you. BE AWARE of what's happening around you. But, the *real* reason I responded to this was to say that Mr Wu's comment about those inevitible collisions being avoided solely because a 3rd tail light was installed is pure conjecture. Perhaps 3 years ago when it was first installed, drivers didn't know what the hell it was and almost had the accident because of it! I almost did when I saw the third light on the Porsche Carerra cabriolet. Can you believe it? Bauman,sivax
daw1@mhuxl.UUCP (Douglas A. Williams) (01/16/86)
> > As a result, ALL Pennsylvania State Police marked vehicles have had > these extra lights since. It actually is a great idea. > I agree! That way you can tell if there are any cops literally miles ahead so you don't blow by them at 80mph or so. (For some reason, perhaps to stay at an exact speed, the PA troopers seem to touch their brakes often enough for one to notice before you reach them at mach 2.) Of course there was that unmarked Trans Am one time ... 1 1 1 1 2 1 Doug Williams 1 3 3 1 AT&T Bell Labs 1 4 6 4 1 Reading, PA 1 5 10 10 5 1 mhuxl!daw1 1 6 15 20 15 6 1
schley@mmm.UUCP (Steve Schley) (01/17/86)
In article <927@mit-eddie.UUCP> alw@mit-eddie.UUCP (Alan Wu) writes: >I think there are several reasons that third brake lights work, beyond >simple novelty. > ... > 3. Perhaps most important, they are OFF at all times EXCEPT when the >brakes are applied. The transition from off to on is much easier to >perceive and interpret than a change in brightness (especially when >the latter may be accompanied by a blinking turn signal). I, too, think this is a good point. The comment about getting turn signals confused with tail lamps and brake lamps is important. I think that red turn signals are dangerous, and if we are going to require a third brake light on cars, we should also require amber turn signals. Obviously, this conveys more information with less confusion than the classic American-style everything-is-red-at-the-back design. Anyone have any comments on pulsing brake lamps? How about if the brake lamps pulse rate is proportional to the brake pedal force, or the decelleration of the vehicle? Then the brake lamps wouldn't be pulsing while sitting at a stop light, giving the following driver a migraine, but would attract attention when they're supposed to. -- Steve Schley ihnp4!mmm!schley
review@drutx.UUCP (MillhamBD) (01/20/86)
>How often do I check if my brake lights are working? Every time I hit the >brakes. My Chrysler Laser XE Turbo's computer command center has sensors >in series with the brake lights, headlights, and tail lamps. If for any Small correction: Not every time that you hit the brakes, every 10 seconds (or so). I took the bulb out with the car sitting (no lights on) and within ~10 seconds, I got the warning. Put the bulb back, message cleared in ~10 seconds. It works by sending a small AC signal through the light circuts. ----------------------- Brian Millham AT & T Denver, Co ...!ihnp4!drutx!review
tong@sbcs.UUCP (William Tong) (01/25/86)
I am currently doing a research on Third brake light. I would like to know whether the automobile manufacturer build manufacture the light themself or they subcontract it? Please reply to !philabs!sbcs!tong. Thanks.
al@umich.UUCP (Allen Leibowitz) (01/30/86)
> Anyone have any comments on pulsing brake lamps? How about if the > brake lamps pulse rate is proportional to the brake pedal force, or the > decelleration of the vehicle? Then the brake lamps wouldn't be pulsing > while sitting at a stop light, giving the following driver a migraine, > but would attract attention when they're supposed to. > ihnp4!mmm!schley A pulsing brake late has been available for a number of years for motorcyles. I don't know anyone who has owned one, though. It pulses relative to the amount of decelaration. -- Allen (allen@detsun.sun.uucp)