WISEM%BYUSTAT3.BITNET@CORNELLC.CIT.CORNELL.EDU (04/26/91)
Hello NeXTers, Disclaimer: Before people get excited and sending me all kinds of messages, I'm not listening. I am leaving school for the summer and may not have email or internet access until september. Information: Way back in December when I was deciding which NeXT to buy, I felt and still feel that color is a very important part of the computing I want to be doing. So, I decided to buy a NeXTstation Color. However, I felt and still feel that the Color MegaPixel display was and is overpriced. I decided to heavily research the purchase of a third party monitor of equal quality for a lower price. Now considering that the computer industry never rests it should come as no surprise to anybody that other companies make monitors which will work with NeXT. Note that this was not the case in December. In recent months, many companies have introduced monitors which have all the capability of the Color MegaPixel. The list prices are in the $2000 range and retail and mail order prices around $1250 - $1600. With the list price of the Color MegaPixel at $3000 this is a considerable difference. Anticipating this, I ordered a NeXTstation Color in December without a monitor. About a month ago, said station arrived. Apparently, NeXT did not believe that anyone would not want their monitor so they sent one anyway. I told the bookstore that I was working on the third party solution and that if things didn't work out I may want it. They shipped it back the next day anyway. Now the real problem in using a third party monitor is connecting the fool thing to the NeXT. The 13W3 connector NeXT uses is a standard, but it is by no means common. I went to 3 custom cable companies in town before I found someone who had even seen one before. I told them what I wanted and they assured me they could build a 13W3 -- BNC adapter for me. (By the way, NeXT makes these for the 21in Display because the company supplying them couldn't get tooled up for the 13W3 in time. Unfortunately, this is an "interim fix" and not an independently orderable part.) Anyway, my friends at the cable company start looking for parts to make the cable from. NADA. Nothing. They found one company who said they made the 13W3 connector but it was backordered with no date of availability. The bottom line is I got the machine, I know of a monitor that should work, (I can't guarantee what I haven't done or seen) but I can't plug the one into the other. After about two weeks of chasing around I finally broke down and ordered the Display from NeXT( It is really frustrating to wait 3 months for a computer, then have it for a month before you can use it.) I was so happy when it came last night that I set it up on the floor in my room. I believe that third party monitors can and should be used with NeXT systems. I am just not in a position where I have the resources to make sure it really works. In theory, it should work fine, but then every thing does in theory. A final note: Special public thanks to BOB DIAZ at Nanao America Corp. technical support. Had I been able to get the connector, I was going to get a Nanao 9080i. Sorry Bob. He can be reached via an 800 number. I can't remember it but I got it from 800 directory assistance. Hoping to be back online soon. |+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+| |+| Morgan D. Wise |+| Some of our views are spacious. |+| |+| wisem@stat3.byu.edu |+| Some are merely space. |+| |+| Brigham Young U. |+| -Neal Peart- |+| |+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|
crum@fcom.cc.utah.edu (Gary Crum) (04/27/91)
Thanks, Morgan (Morgan D. Wise, wisem@stat3.byu.edu who is apparently not going to have e-mail access for a while), for that very well-written article. I was disappointed to hear that NeXT is shipping color cables with monitors and not with computers (and presumably not with NeXTdimension boards). Morgan mentioned that he knew of a 3-rd party monitor that should work in place of the NeXT Color monitors. But, he didn't reference that 3rd party monitor explicitly. What model is it? Does anyone know what monitors work? How about those that are commonly used with other color workstations, like the Sony monitors that are resold with IBM RISC System/6000, Sun and Hewlett-Packard workstations? The NeXT 17" Phillips-made display may be a lot less expensive than the Sony that NeXT orginally displayed with its color products, but the output of the Phillips display seems awfully washed-out to me. (Once again, it is rumored that on 10-May, the list price of the NeXT 17" display will drop from $3000 to $2000, and that decrease will supposedly be accompanied by a $1000 increase in the price of the Color NeXTstation. Too bad.) Gary
crum@fcom.cc.utah.edu (Gary Crum) (04/28/91)
Darn. Excuse me if my posting was duplicated. I thought I interrupted GNUS from posting it the first time. Anyway, here's one more comment: At least, those interested in third-party color monitors with cubes have this option: Buy a NeXTdimension board and NeXT 17" color monitor now, and use the cable that comes with the monitor to test out other, higher-quality monitors with the NeXTdimension board. Then, get another NeXTdimension board to use with the appropriate high-quality Sony monitor, and clone the cable. Then, assuming the cube still has a Monochrome Megapixel Display connected, the user will have three screens connected to one system, and thus have some room to spread documents out on screen, e.g. to view graphics, header files and code all at the same time. I'm really glad NeXT supports multiple monitors connected to a single system nicely, like Macintosh computers. Unfortunately for MS-DOS users, the IBM PC architecture doesn't allow people to ulilize multiple display cards on a single system -- not "nicely" anyway. Maybe a future version of Microsoft Windows and a slight change to the graphics adapter interface specification for PC compatibles will make that possible. On this same topic, I would "hereby" like to see the capability of connecting the NextStep window servers of two NeXT computers so that both can be completely controlled from one keyboard and mouse set. Given the high-level PostScript interface, I think the ethernet, TCP/IP and Mach messaging system is sufficient to make such a connection useable. What fun it would be to try modifying the NextStep/DPS window server implementation to allow this. Maybe the X window system isn't far from being able to do this, either. Gary
barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) (04/28/91)
In article <CRUM.91Apr27130850@fcom.cc.utah.edu> crum@fcom.cc.utah.edu (Gary Crum) writes: > >The NeXT 17" Phillips-made display may be a lot less expensive than the Sony >that NeXT orginally displayed with its color products, but the output >of the Phillips display seems awfully washed-out to me. (Once again, >it is rumored that on 10-May, the list price of the NeXT 17" display will >drop from $3000 to $2000, and that decrease will supposedly be accompanied by >a $1000 increase in the price of the Color NeXTstation. Too bad.) I saw the Phillips monitor last week. Its seems sharp near the center, but the edge regions of the monitor are pretty fuzzy---menus in the upper right are nearly illegible, for example---like looking at text close up on a TV screen. I wonder if maybe improved focusing could fix this? Definitely a mistake if NeXT _increases_ the price of this product. -- Barry Merriman UCLA Dept. of Math UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet)
petrilli@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Chris Petrilli) (04/28/91)
Barry Merriman writes: >I saw the Phillips monitor last week. Its seems sharp near the center, but the >edge regions of the monitor are pretty fuzzy---menus in the upper right >are nearly illegible, for example---like looking at text close >up on a TV screen. I wonder if maybe improved focusing could fix this? > >Definitely a mistake if NeXT _increases_ the price of this product. I don't know about the NeXT monitor, as all the monitors I have seen have been VERY sharp... both the 21" and 17" monitors seem excellent to me, but I have only seen a couple of each. I do know what the HP 9000s that I use have color monitors (Sonys I believe) and about 1/3 of them have horrible color divergence, a problem that cannot be corrected by adjecting the linerity apparently. The rest of them are excellent, but those 1/3 are unbearable. This is from a lab of roughly 100 machines here. The Sparcs around here also have the same problem (though it's only about 1/5 of them). Chris -- + Chris Petrilli | Internet: petrilli@gnu.ai.mit.edu + Insert silly disclaimer drivel here.
simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu (Kim Simmons) (04/28/91)
In article <1991Apr27.213554.12588@math.ucla.edu> barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes: Path: doug.cae.wisc.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohiostate.edu!usc!uclacs!uclama!pico!barry From: barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Date: 27 Apr 91 21:35:54 GMT References: <9104251931.AA13223@cheops.cis.ohiostate.edu> <CRUM.91Apr27130850@fcom.cc.utah.edu> Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA Dept. of Math, UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research Lines: 23 In article <CRUM.91Apr27130850@fcom.cc.utah.edu> crum@fcom.cc.utah.edu (Gary Crum) writes: > >The NeXT 17" Phillipsmade display may be a lot less expensive than the Sony >that NeXT orginally displayed with its color products, but the output >of the Phillips display seems awfully washedout to me. (Once again, >it is rumored that on 10May, the list price of the NeXT 17" display will >drop from $3000 to $2000, and that decrease will supposedly be accompanied by >a $1000 increase in the price of the Color NeXTstation. Too bad.) I saw the Phillips monitor last week. Its seems sharp near the center, but the edge regions of the monitor are pretty fuzzymenus in the upper right are nearly illegible, for examplelike looking at text close up on a TV screen. I wonder if maybe improved focusing could fix this? Definitely a mistake if NeXT _increases_ the price of this product. Barry Merriman UCLA Dept. of Math UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet) I have a monochrome and a color slab side by side here in my office. The color monitor is definitely very fuzzy for text. So fuzzy that i can't use the color for anything like edit/emacs stuff that involves text, without eyestrain after a while. I was warned about this by a few people, didn't belive them. Well its true, i was wrong and they were right. I would not recommend anyone buy a color slab if they will be doing a lot of stuff where they have to look at text for any length of time(like programming). The color is great however. Unfortunately i do a lot of email/programming/news reading. Unless i want to impress people with the neat color, or look at some gif or tif images, or use a draw program that supports color, i use the mono slab. We have a color Sparcstation next door (Sony Trintron monitor i think), and that monitor is much, much better than the NeXT color monitor. It's amazing having the two monitors side by side. The mono is so much sharper (it is the best monitor that i have ever used), while the color monitor is among the worse (if you have to look at text). Only the original Dec color monitors(before they switched to the Sony monitor) was worse. =============================================================================== Internet: simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu Othernet: simmons@hoofers.lake.mendota According to the HitchHikers guide to the galaxy, the one thing we *cannot* afford to have is a sense of perspective. ===============================================================================
mikec@wam.umd.edu (Michael D. Callaghan) (04/28/91)
In article <CRUM.91Apr27130850@fcom.cc.utah.edu> crum@fcom.cc.utah.edu (Gary Crum) writes: >Thanks, Morgan (Morgan D. Wise, wisem@stat3.byu.edu who is apparently >not going to have e-mail access for a while), for that very well-written >article. > >The NeXT 17" Phillips-made display may be a lot less expensive than the Sony >that NeXT orginally displayed with its color products, but the output >of the Phillips display seems awfully washed-out to me. (Once again, >it is rumored that on 10-May, the list price of the NeXT 17" display will >drop from $3000 to $2000, and that decrease will supposedly be accompanied by >a $1000 increase in the price of the Color NeXTstation. Too bad.) I have to say, as one who sells Philips monitors (note the spelling) that I'm perplexed at the NeXTStation Color's lack of contrast. In my experience, Philips ALWAYS has better color and contrast than Sony. The Color display really disappointed me. MikeC -- --------------------------------------------------------- Michael D. Callaghan, MDC Designs, University of Maryland --------------------------------------------------------- - Celibacy is a curable condition -
flog@bernina.ethz.ch (Florian Gutzwiller) (04/29/91)
simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu (Kim Simmons) writes: >It's amazing having the two monitors side by side. The mono is so much >sharper (it is the best monitor that i have ever used), while the color >monitor is among the worse (if you have to look at text). Only the original >Dec color monitors(before they switched to the Sony monitor) was worse. The original DEC monitors were Hitachi. MY COLORSTATION MONITOR IS A HITACHI BOX LABEL: C1761NX N4001 MARCH 1991 MADE IN ITALY Have a look at the NEW Sony Trinitron that ship with the Sparcstation 2. Their refresh rate is 76 Hz, noninterlaced 106 Hz. They have the best picture I've ever worked with. I know the Philips form SGI's and Hitachi from Dec. It's a real disappointment. NeXT Monitors Toolkit: RGG cable SONY monitor Black spraycan Regards -Florian
ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) (04/29/91)
On 28-Apr-91 in Re: Third Party Monitors user Kim Simmons@rigel.neep.w writes: >I have a monochrome and a color slab side by side here in my office. The >color monitor is definitely very fuzzy for text. So fuzzy that i can't use the >color for anything like edit/emacs stuff that involves text, without >eyestrain after a while. I was warned about this by a few people, didn't >belive them. Well its true, i was wrong and they were right. I would not >recommend anyone buy a color slab if they will be doing a lot of stuff where >they have to look at text for any length of time(like programming). The color >is great however. Unfortunately i do a lot of email/programming/news reading. >Unless i want to impress people with the neat color, or look at some gif or >tif images, or use a draw program that supports color, i use the mono slab. >We have a color Sparcstation next door (Sony Trintron monitor i think), and >that monitor is much, much better than the NeXT color monitor. >It's amazing having the two monitors side by side. The mono is so much >sharper (it is the best monitor that i have ever used), while the color >monitor is among the worse (if you have to look at text). Only the original >Dec color monitors(before they switched to the Sony monitor) was worse. Question: Is it possible to have a large variation in the quality of different monitors of the same model? I ask this since Kim says that her monitor is fuzzy with text and just plain an eyesore. I own a ColorStation and find the crispness of the text to be excelent. While I do not have a Mono NeXT next to the Color, I do have a standard Color Macintosh right next to it. The text display is clearly suberb to the mac. I have many opportunities to visit the CMU NeXT cluster (I am not networked, therefore I must transfer via floppies) and a clear difference in quality does not stand out in my mind, although the windows on the mono are a bit snappier speedwise. I have spent many hours in front of my ColorStation hacking away, and eyesores are not a problem. Is it possible that Kim's monitor is inferior to mine?