mahmoud@csund.cs.uh.edu () (05/17/91)
Rumor on why IBM is not very enthusiastic about NeXTstep on its RS/6000 workstion. An IBM rep told me the other day that it is not IBM that Is not enthusiastic but its Mr. Steve Jobs that is holding out on IBM. The story is that even though IBM gave steve 10 million++ for NeXTstep to run on its workstations he now claims that he sold them a license for NS1.0 only and not for NS2.0. Also it seems like he does not want them to have color. It seems like he is trying to milk them out of more money and they are pretty pissed. The IBM rep said that they are willing to sell NeXTstep for the RS/6000 but they are not willing to look bad and sell the old version of NS. So he said the only way is for steve to come to his senses and be happy with his 10 mill. ++ and not be tooooooo greedy. I have no idea if he was telling the truth or what...has anyone heard this before.....also it this is true we should mail steveeee baby a note(s) that we want to see NS2.0 on the RS/6000 and every other machine that can handle it......ahmed
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/17/91)
In article <1991May16.212049.19976@menudo.uh.edu> mahmoud@csund.cs.uh.edu () writes:
An IBM rep told me the other day that it is not IBM that
Is not enthusiastic but its Mr. Steve Jobs that is holding out on
IBM. The story is that even though IBM gave steve 10 million++
for NeXTstep to run on its workstations he now claims that
he sold them a license for NS1.0 only and not for NS2.0.
Also it seems like he does not want them to have color.
It seems like he is trying to milk them out of more money and
they are pretty pissed. The IBM rep said that they are willing
to sell NeXTstep for the RS/6000 but they are not willing to
look bad and sell the old version of NS. So he said the only
way is for steve to come to his senses and be happy with
his 10 mill. ++ and not be tooooooo greedy.
I have no idea if he was telling the truth or what...has anyone heard
this before.....also it this is true we should mail steveeee baby
a note(s) that we want to see NS2.0 on the RS/6000 and every other
machine that can handle it......ahmed
What does the contract say that IBM and NeXT signed? Surely future
NeXTStep upgrades must have been discussed.
-Mikecmac@gehenna (Chris MacAskill) (05/17/91)
In article <1991May16.212049.19976@menudo.uh.edu> mahmoud@csund.cs.uh.edu writes: > Rumor on why IBM is not very enthusiastic > about NeXTstep on its RS/6000 workstion. > > An IBM rep told me the other day that it is not IBM that > Is not enthusiastic but its Mr. Steve Jobs that is holding out on > IBM. The story is that even though IBM gave steve 10 million++ > for NeXTstep to run on its workstations he now claims that > he sold them a license for NS1.0 only and not for NS2.0. Actually, IBM has a license to 2.0 and it includes color support. We hope their color is dazzling and shows off NeXTstep very well. Chris MacAskill cmac@next.com
mahmoud@karazm.math.uh.edu (Ahmed Mahmoud) (05/17/91)
In article <4cHd_76@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >In article <1991May16.212049.19976@menudo.uh.edu> mahmoud@csund.cs.uh.edu () writes: > > An IBM rep told me the other day that it is not IBM that > Is not enthusiastic but its Mr. Steve Jobs that is holding out on > IBM. The story is that even though IBM gave steve 10 million++ > for NeXTstep to run on its workstations he now claims that > he sold them a license for NS1.0 only and not for NS2.0. > Also it seems like he does not want them to have color. > It seems like he is trying to milk them out of more money and > they are pretty pissed. The IBM rep said that they are willing > to sell NeXTstep for the RS/6000 but they are not willing to > look bad and sell the old version of NS. So he said the only > way is for steve to come to his senses and be happy with > his 10 mill. ++ and not be tooooooo greedy. > I have no idea if he was telling the truth or what...has anyone heard > this before.....also it this is true we should mail steveeee baby > a note(s) that we want to see NS2.0 on the RS/6000 and every other > machine that can handle it......ahmed > >What does the contract say that IBM and NeXT signed? Surely future >NeXTStep upgrades must have been discussed. > >-Mike I would like to see that contract because if what the rep says is true then some lawyer is in deep sh*t. Because for 10 million++ I would think IBM would of get the rights to NeXTstep version 30.0 not 2.0....But I would not be surprised by Steve....seeing how Apple never let any Mac clones to get built....... Has any one else heard about this....?? Has any one seen the contract and is willing to post a message???? Ahmed
finn@THEORY.TC.CORNELL.EDU (Lee Samuel Finn) (05/17/91)
In article <1991May16.212049.19976@menudo.uh.edu> mahmoud@csund.cs.uh.edu () writes: >Rumor on why IBM is not very enthusiastic >about NeXTstep on its RS/6000 workstion. > >An IBM rep told me the other day that it is not IBM that >Is not enthusiastic but its Mr. Steve Jobs that is holding out on >IBM. The story is that even though IBM gave steve 10 million++ >for NeXTstep to run on its workstations he now claims that >he sold them a license for NS1.0 only and not for NS2.0. >Also it seems like he does not want them to have color. >It seems like he is trying to milk them out of more money and >they are pretty pissed. The IBM rep said that they are willing >to sell NeXTstep for the RS/6000 but they are not willing to >look bad and sell the old version of NS. So he said the only >way is for steve to come to his senses and be happy with >his 10 mill. ++ and not be tooooooo greedy. >I have no idea if he was telling the truth or what...has anyone heard >this before.....also it this is true we should mail steveeee baby >a note(s) that we want to see NS2.0 on the RS/6000 and every other >machine that can handle it......ahmed > > Two comments: 1) As labeled, this is rumor (and from an IBM rep --- not an impartial source), and 2) I'm not certain that NeXT would be in the wrong here: were these the terms of the contract? What would IBMs revenue be if they were to pay the money to license NS2.0? Is the fee exorbitant? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I'm not willing to condemn ``steveee baby'' as a merciless Simon Le Gree for trying to squeeze a few bucks out of poor, innocent, IBM --- if in fact that is what is happening and it is not some other, more likely story.
thomsen@spf.trw.com (Mark R. Thomsen) (05/18/91)
mahmoud@csund.cs.uh.edu writes Rumor on why IBM is not very enthusiastic about NeXTstep on its RS/6000 workstion. An IBM rep told me the other day that it is not IBM that Is not enthusiastic but its Mr. Steve Jobs that is holding out on IBM. The story is that even though IBM gave steve 10 million++ for NeXTstep to run on its workstations he now claims that he sold them a license for NS1.0 only and not for NS2.0. Also it seems like he does not want them to have color. It seems like he is trying to milk them out of more money and they are pretty pissed. The IBM rep said that they are willing to sell NeXTstep for the RS/6000 but they are not willing to look bad and sell the old version of NS. So he said the only way is for steve to come to his senses and be happy with his 10 mill. ++ and not be tooooooo greedy. I have no idea if he was telling the truth or what...has anyone heard this before.....also it this is true we should mail steveeee baby a note(s) that we want to see NS2.0 on the RS/6000 and every other machine that can handle it......ahmed Whoaa. IBM has the contract access to the goodies. See response from Chris MacAskill. IBM is a huge company that has huge communication problems (endemic to huge companies). An IBM rep might not know what is going on. Yours obviously is not a whole lot of help in information matters - getting it wrong and compounding that with ill-advised negative speculation. Using words like 'greedy' based on unreliable information from an unreliable source is not going to help. Recall that the number one marketing ploy of computer companies is FUD - create fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the competition's wares and abilities. By amplifying this you become a marketing tool. Suggestion: When you (and anyone else) hear something like this that defies common sense, try asking a NeXT rep and then post both sides. A little journalistic caution. Mark R. Thomsen
perstoro@netmbx.UUCP (Wilhelm Schaefer) (05/18/91)
> I would like to see that contract because if what the rep says is true >then some lawyer is in deep sh*t. Because for 10 million++ I would think >IBM would of get the rights to NeXTstep version 30.0 not 2.0....But I would >not be surprised by Steve....seeing how Apple never let any Mac clones to >get built...... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^... In my opinion this was (is) the reason that IBM-DOS had conquered the market. Let's hope steve wan't do the same mistake again, else the user would had have to suffer the consequences again... so long -- --- good old perstoro --- --
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/19/91)
In article <2335@netmbx.UUCP> perstoro@netmbx.UUCP (Wilhelm Schaefer) writes:
In my opinion this was (is) the reason that IBM-DOS had conquered
the market. Let's hope steve wan't do the same mistake again, else
the user would had have to suffer the consequences again...
No, the IBM cloners conquered the market because Apple didn't have a
Classic. In other words, their machines were too expensive. If NeXT
can release a $2995 computer they can(IMHO) grab a serious piece of
the market. For now, though, I think they're only targeting Fortune
500, other large corporations, and education.
-Mikebb@math.ufl.edu (Brian Bartholomew) (05/19/91)
In article <1991May16.212049.19976@menudo.uh.edu> mahmoud@csund.cs.uh.edu writes: > Rumor on why IBM is not very enthusiastic about NeXTstep on its > RS/6000 workstion. > An IBM rep told me the other day that it is not IBM that Is not > enthusiastic but its Mr. Steve Jobs that is holding out on IBM. The > story is that even though IBM gave steve 10 million++ for NeXTstep to > run on its workstations he now claims that he sold them a license for > NS1.0 only and not for NS2.0. Also it seems like he does not want > them to have color. It seems like he is trying to milk them out of > more money and they are pretty pissed. The IBM rep said that they are > willing to sell NeXTstep for the RS/6000 but they are not willing to > look bad and sell the old version of NS. So he said the only way is > for steve to come to his senses and be happy with his 10 mill. ++ and > not be tooooooo greedy. This sounds like a perfectly plausible lie for IBM to make up as an excuse for why they aren't selling 2.0. I'e seen it running, and it works fine. I contineu to think the real reason IBM isn't selling NS, despite their common tendency to sell multiple OS's for any given hardware platform, is that it looks and works so well that it totally embarasses their OSF/Motief junk. -- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Bartholomew UUCP: ...gatech!uflorida!beach.cis.ufl.edu!bb University of Florida Internet: bb@math.ufl.edu
jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) (05/20/91)
In article <r6aH$3#7@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > > In article <2335@netmbx.UUCP> perstoro@netmbx.UUCP (Wilhelm Schaefer) writes: > > In my opinion this was (is) the reason that IBM-DOS had conquered > the market. Let's hope steve wan't do the same mistake again, else > the user would had have to suffer the consequences again... > > No, the IBM cloners conquered the market because Apple didn't have a > Classic. In other words, their machines were too expensive. If NeXT > can release a $2995 computer they can(IMHO) grab a serious piece of > the market. For now, though, I think they're only targeting Fortune > 500, other large corporations, and education. But those two points are related. IBM didn't produce a "classic" (i.e., low price) model either. The clone makers did, thus allowing lots of people to buy into the MS-DOS world. It also gave software developers more machines to develop for, thus increasing the amount of software available, which in turn caused more people to buy DOS machines. If NeXTStep ran on multiple platforms, more developers would develop more for it, thus increasing the amount of software available (which is probably the biggest minus for the NeXT right now -- not enough software available). Jim Mann jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com Stratus Computer
thomsen@spf.trw.com (Mark R. Thomsen) (05/21/91)
Brian Bartholomew writes
<skip some stuff>
This sounds like a perfectly plausible lie for IBM to make up as an
excuse for why they aren't selling 2.0. I'e seen it running, and it
works fine. I contineu to think the real reason IBM isn't selling NS,
despite their common tendency to sell multiple OS's for any given
hardware platform, is that it looks and works so well that it
totally embarasses their OSF/Motief junk.
Actually we find that Motif runs pretty good on the RS/6000. There
*are* a number of things on this machine that *do* need polishing by
IBM. I would guess that NeXTstep is one of many issues challenging
their technical team - and their marketing team.
IBM says RIOS platforms are their entries in the open systems market.
If so, then Motif makes sense and NeXTstep does not. However, IBM faces
problems selling the RIOS beyond the Datamation and captive buyers if
they do not make RIOS 'special' relative to competition from DEC, SUN,
HP, SGI, and NeXT. NeXTstep can help their positioning for less
technical users, IMHO.
There are reasons NeXT folk should want NeXTstep all over the place -
NeXT users and NeXT employees/leaders. There must be reasons IBM
folk want the same thing (beyond getting something for the money
invested with NeXT). Demand from customers has been shown to work
in some cases. Next time you see an IBM rep or a RIOS demo, and if
you do want NeXTstep on the machine, just ask for it. Ask to see it
demonstrated. Let the IBM rep know that you would consider the RIOS
in your environment (or make a recommendation) if it ran NeXTstep. A
proactive approach might help.
Mr T
Mo' Better Tif?herring@cse.uta.edu (Erick Herring) (05/21/91)
>In article <1991May16.212049.19976@menudo.uh.edu> mahmoud@csund.cs.uh.edu () writes: >>Rumor on why IBM is not very enthusiastic >>about NeXTstep on its RS/6000 workstion. >> >>An IBM rep told me the other day that it is not IBM that >>Is not enthusiastic but its Mr. Steve Jobs that is holding out on >>IBM. The story is that even though IBM gave steve 10 million++ >>for NeXTstep to run on its workstations he now claims that >>he sold them a license for NS1.0 only and not for NS2.0. >>Also it seems like he does not want them to have color. >>It seems like he is trying to milk them out of more money and >>they are pretty pissed. The IBM rep said that they are willing >>to sell NeXTstep for the RS/6000 but they are not willing to >>look bad and sell the old version of NS. So he said the only >>way is for steve to come to his senses and be happy with >>his 10 mill. ++ and not be tooooooo greedy. >>I have no idea if he was telling the truth or what...has anyone heard >>this before.....also it this is true we should mail steveeee baby >>a note(s) that we want to see NS2.0 on the RS/6000 and every other >>machine that can handle it......ahmed Hello, all! Since this thread is persisting, I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate what one of the guys at NeXT said: IBM is entitled to System 2.0 and color support, and we hope that their machines show both of these off beautifully. Erick -- Erick Herring, NeXT Campus Consultant - University of Texas at Arlington email: herring@evax.uta.edu Disclaimer: Unless otherwise specified, none of the above reflects the policies of NeXT Computer, Inc. Likewise, the above does not commit NeXT to any specific course of action nor can anything I say be construed as binding on NeXT. All opinions are my own.