MBParker@share.UUCP (05/22/91)
The cost for a NeXTstation Color with the NeXT Sound Box but without the NeXT Color monitor only a few hundred dollars than a NeXTstation Grayscale without the MegaPixel Display (see below). It's the NeXT Color Monitor which makes the NeXTstation Color expensive. So if it is at all possible to make a NeXTstation Color drive a monochrome/grayscale monitor, perhaps even the NeXT MegaPixel Display, then there would be almost no reason for anyone to buy a NeXTstation Grayscale. A NeXTstation Color with a GRAYSCALE monitor would cost only a few hundred dollars more, come with 4MB additional RAM, and have the very crucial ability to be later upgraded to color, which the NeXTstation Grayscale very disappointingly lacks. So I ask, has anyone done this? Has anyone hooked a NeXTstation Color to a some monochrome monitor, or does anyone know how? NeXT says it is possible (you hook the NeXTstation Color's RGB green (or red or blue) signal to monochrome monitor's video input), although unsupported. Below is a letter I sent NeXT urging them to support this extensible configuration. -Mike Parker NeXT Developer and MIT Computer Science Grad Student (will post summary of responses) ******************************************************************************* Return-Path: <MBParker> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 91 00:44:02 GMT-0800 From: MBParker To: mroosli@next.com, Bug_NeXT@next.com Cc: djstein Subject: For all machines, 16-bit color standard, or the option for $375 to later upgrade to 16-bit color If it is possible to get the NeXTstation Color to drive a NeXT or third-party grayscale monitor, there may be little reason for anyone to buy a NeXTstation Grayscale. Consider the list prices of the following two possible starter systems: #1 NeXTstation Grayscale System Unit (105MB/8MB) $3775 NeXTstation Grayscale Starting Point Kit $ 225 MegaPixel Grayscale Display $ 995 Total: $5000 #2 NeXTstation Color System Unit (105MB/12MB) $4650 NeXTstation Color Starting Point Kit $ 225 NeXT Sound Box $ 125 Third-Party Grayscale Monitor $ 400 Total: $5400 Notice that for only the small price of a third-party grayscale monitor, about $400, the second option everything of the first, plus an additional 4MB of memory **and the very important ability to later upgrade to 16-bit color**. In contrast, the purchaser of the NeXTstation Grayscale would have to throw away a his entire system if he later wanted to have color. Because of the benefit to the user, I will recommend the second option over the first to every potential color user purchasing a station, and I'd recommend NeXT support this configuration. But NeXT looses in this deal: looses the sale of a grayscale monitor. NeXT could regain this sale if NeXT supported the following system: #3 NeXTstation Color System Unit (105MB/8MB) $4650 NeXTstation Color Starting Point Kit $ 225 MegaPixel Grayscale Display $ 995 Total: $5870 Though a little more expensive, this option would probably be the best deal for the user, and certainly for NeXT, because all equipment is from NeXT and because when the user was ready to upgrade to color, NeXT could allow the user to trade-in the MegaPixel Grayscale Display for the MegaPixel Color Display, as NeXT already does for NeXTcube owners upgrading to NeXTdimension. For these reasons, I strongly recommend NeXT support use of the MegaPixel Grayscale Display on the NeXTstation Color System Unit. Reasoning from these close prices a bit further, one might ask, Why doesn't NeXT provide the inexpensive 16-bit color circuitry as an option or as standard on all their machines? From the following two list prices: NeXTstation Grayscale system unit with 2.88MB floppy, 105MB hard disk, 16MB RAM, costs $5275 list and NeXTstation Color system unit with 2.88MB floppy, 105MB hard disk, 16MB RAM, costs $5650 list, one can infer that the cost of a NeXTstation Color motherboard is only $375 list dollers more than a NeXTstation Grayscale motherboard. Since the 16-bit color circuitry is the only difference, we see the circuitry required for color is relatively inexpensive. So I ask, why is NeXT producing Grayscale motherboards at all -- for either the station or the cube? Since the motherboard color support is not that expensive, why not build color upgradability into ALL NeXT computers? Or offer it as an option? Currently, if I'm a NeXTstation Grayscale user, to have any color, I have to throw away my entire $5000 computer and buy another $7995 one! And if I'm a NeXTcube Grayscale user, I have to pay a wopping $6990, $2995 for the monitor and $3995 for the NeXTdimension board, before I can have any color! Wouldn't it make so much more sense for NeXT to offer NeXTstation AND NeXTcube the customer the option, for a mere $375, to later upgrade to 16-bit color by merely getting a color monitor -- without having to get an expensive accessory board or whole new computer? Wouldn't it make sense for NeXT to offer, as an option for both the NeXTstation and NeXTcube, a motherboard which would drive 16 bit color -- without being forced to buy a $2995 color monitor plus possibly a $3995 accessory board? The $375 16-bit color option for all machines, which doesn't require purchase of a color display, will give NeXT a much less confusing product line. And it will make NeXT's customers much happer knowing that if they are interested in color, they can inexpensively and painlessly upgrade to color later if they choose to. Because the 16-bit color circuitry appears relatively inexpensive, I recommend NeXT provide the 16-bit color circuitry on all their machines (NeXTstation AND NeXTcube) as an option or if possible as standard, and in way that it can also drive the inexpensive grayscale monitor; the circuitry would take advantage of the expensive color monitor, but would not require it. What do you think of this idea? -Mike Parker MIT Reg. Dev. #1013
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/26/91)
[argument that NeXT should support a Grayscale display on the NeXTstation color delete] I completely agree. NeXT is loosing a lot of sales because many people will choose 386 clone with color VGA over the NeXT in part because it has color. I have already seen this happen. The 17" MegaPixel Grayscale Display is much better in my opinion(the fact is the NeXT is unquestionably better), but selling computers is how the game is played. Prices of 486 machines are about to drop too, eliminating NeXT's performance advantage. -Mike
isbell@ucscf.UCSC.EDU (Art Isbell) (05/26/91)
In article <1991May22.082130.19581@share.UUCP> you write:
[advantages of purchasing a NeXTstation Color computer with MegaPixel grayscale
monitor deleted}
As of the Spring 1991 List Prices catalog, the price differential between a
NeXTstation and NeXTstation Color computer (pizza box without monitor,
keyboard, etc.) has increased by $1,000 to $1,875 and the 17" MegaPixel Color
monitor has decreased by $1,000, so the total price of a complete NeXTstation
Color has remained unchanged. So this price restructuring makes purchasing a
3rd-party color monitor or running a MegaPixel grayscale monitor on a
NeXTstation Color pizza box less attractive by $1,000. I guess the
manufacturing cost differential between the grayscale and color CPU boards is
greater than NeXT thought.
The only other significant price changes I could find were a $1,000 decrease in
the cost of a NeXTdimension system with 17" Color display (related to the
above) and a $500 increase in the cost of the 21" Color display.
--
_____ ____
Art Isbell |\ | HELP! | | | \ 315 Moon Meadow Lane
NeXT Registered Developer | \ | ___ |____| | | Felton, CA 95018-9442
isbell@ucscf.UCSC.EDU | \ | |___| | \ | | (408)335-1154
=> I NEED TO FIND NEXT ==> | \| |___ | \ |___/ ==> DEVELOPMENT WORK <=bwdavies@rodan.acs.syr.edu (05/27/91)
In article <16210@darkstar.ucsc.edu> isbell@ucscf.UCSC.EDU (Art Isbell) writes: > > >In article <1991May22.082130.19581@share.UUCP> you write: >[advantages of purchasing a NeXTstation Color computer with MegaPixel grayscale >monitor deleted} > >As of the Spring 1991 List Prices catalog, the price differential between a >NeXTstation and NeXTstation Color computer (pizza box without monitor, >keyboard, etc.) has increased by $1,000 to $1,875 and the 17" MegaPixel Color >monitor has decreased by $1,000, so the total price of a complete NeXTstation >Color has remained unchanged. So this price restructuring makes purchasing a >3rd-party color monitor or running a MegaPixel grayscale monitor on a >NeXTstation Color pizza box less attractive by $1,000. I guess the >manufacturing cost differential between the grayscale and color CPU boards is >greater than NeXT thought. To be a little less charitable, when I first heard about these price changes I immediately assumed that NeXT had noticed people ordering NeXTstation Color machines with the Sound Box and startup kit, and no monitor, and decided to adjust the prices to make buying a third-party monitor a much less attractive option. (This is basically what I was planning on doing.) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sam Hill Cabal "Them people'll do anything for money. You'd bwdavies@sunrise.bitnet be surprised. They ain't like us, Doc. bwdavies@rodan.acs.syr.edu They're Christians." -- Seldom Seen Smith