gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) (05/24/91)
Leaving all jokes about fortran aside (please), someone who is interested in purchasing a next was wondering what (if any) fortran options are available. I see there is a fortran-to-c converter available (according to the FAQ list), and the spring issue of Software and Peripherals lists a few Fortran compilers (most of which are too expensive for a single user, I would think). Are there any other options available? Has anyone used any of the options available to write fortran programs which would run on both the NeXT and other unix-y platforms (such as Sun IPC's)? - - - - - - - - Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu or gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu ITS Systems Programmer (handles NeXT-type mail) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu (Kim Simmons) (05/25/91)
In article <gzght5+@rpi.edu> gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) writes:
Path: doug.cae.wisc.edu!zazen!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!dali.cs.montana.edu!rpi!usenet
From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next
Date: 24 May 91 16:36:31 GMT
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: eclipse.its.rpi.edu
Leaving all jokes about fortran aside (please), someone who is interested in
purchasing a next was wondering what (if any) fortran options are available.
I see there is a fortran-to-c converter available (according to the FAQ list),
and the spring issue of Software and Peripherals lists a few Fortran compilers
(most of which are too expensive for a single user, I would think).
Are there any other options available?
Has anyone used any of the options available to write fortran programs which
would run on both the NeXT and other unix-y platforms (such as Sun IPC's)?
- - - - - - - -
Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu or gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
f2c works very well on the NeXT. As a matter of fact, it works better than
the present version of Absoft Fortran (in that it generates correct code and
slightly faster code than Absoft). Hopefully for a product that costs
$995 ,this will change in the next release of Absoft Fortran.
Absoft FORTRAN is available, lists for $995. The academic price is $750,
though i'm not sure if this applies to students. In any case this is much too
high a price for students around here to pay. None of them can afford it,
hence they make do with f2c.
Would be nice if NeXT supported FORTRAN like Sun and Dec and IBM and HP does.
This could easily be done via some support for the gnu FORTRAN project.
However, i guess their lack of support for FORTRAN is consistent with their
lack of interest in the technical workstation market.
--
===============================================================================
Internet: simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu
Othernet: simmons@hoofers.lake.mendota
--- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
According to the HitchHikers guide to the galaxy, the one thing we
*cannot* afford to have is a sense of perspective.
===============================================================================barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) (05/25/91)
In article <SIMMONS.91May24173142@rigel.neep.wisc.edu> simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu (Kim Simmons) writes: > >Would be nice if NeXT supported FORTRAN like Sun and Dec and IBM and HP does. >This could easily be done via some support for the gnu FORTRAN project. >However, i guess their lack of support for FORTRAN is consistent with their >lack of interest in the technical workstation market. Well, Sun has un-bundled their fortran compiler; you have to buy it now. I doubt many individuals could afford that, either. In general, unbundling compilers seems to be a trend for computer manufactures these days (another e.g.: Connection Machine). -- Barry Merriman UCLA Dept. of Math UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet) barry@arnold.math.ucla.edu (NeXTMail)
simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu (Kim Simmons) (05/27/91)
In article <1991May25.003520.20433@math.ucla.edu> barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes: Path: doug.cae.wisc.edu!zazen!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!pico!barry From: barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Date: 25 May 91 00:35:20 GMT References: <gzght5+@rpi.edu> <SIMMONS.91May24173142@rigel.neep.wisc.edu> Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA Dept. of Math, UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research Lines: 19 In article <SIMMONS.91May24173142@rigel.neep.wisc.edu> simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu (Kim Simmons) writes: > >Would be nice if NeXT supported FORTRAN like Sun and Dec and IBM and HP does. >This could easily be done via some support for the gnu FORTRAN project. >However, i guess their lack of support for FORTRAN is consistent with their >lack of interest in the technical workstation market. Well, Sun has un-bundled their fortran compiler; you have to buy it now. I doubt many individuals could afford that, either. In general, unbundling compilers seems to be a trend for computer manufactures these days (another e.g.: Connection Machine). -- Barry Merriman UCLA Dept. of Math UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet) barry@arnold.math.ucla.edu (NeXTMail) True but, (1) Sun has a FORTRAN compiler, NeXT does not. (2) Sun has always and continue to give us their FORTRAN compiler, without us having to pay for it (so does DEC by the way). (3) No students or individuals have Sparcstations around here that i know i.e. personal purchase as opposed to say University Departmental purchase. (4) Because Sun does it does not mean that NeXT should do it, even if they had a FORTRAN compiler to do it with. -- =============================================================================== Internet: simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu Othernet: simmons@hoofers.lake.mendota --- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --- According to the HitchHikers guide to the galaxy, the one thing we *cannot* afford to have is a sense of perspective. ===============================================================================
petrilli@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Chris Petrilli) (05/27/91)
Kim Simmons writes: [... quotes of other's discussion of FORTRAN compiler ...] True but, (1) Sun has a FORTRAN compiler, NeXT does not. NeXT may not have a Fortran compiler, but that does not mean that there is not a Fortran compiler for the NeXT, which is more important. There is currently work being done on a GNU Fortran front end for GCC, which will be running on the NeXT as one of the first platforms (since there is a NeXT at the FSF). This should put an end to this discussion, as NeXT will, most likely, distribute the new compiler with their machines, making them the only company in the world that ships, as standard equipment, a C, C++, Objective-C and Fortran compiler. Also, Lisp will be back as soon as ACL is ready from what I hear, but only for higher education customers. (2) Sun has always and continue to give us their FORTRAN compiler, without us having to pay for it (so does DEC by the way). If I am not mistaken, you do pay for it in a softare update contract. I know that the University of Texas does this (last I heard), and they pay $$$$$$$ for it (the many $ are intentional). It isn't free, as Sun has never done anything free. (3) No students or individuals have Sparcstations around here that i know i.e. personal purchase as opposed to say University Departmental purchase. Not many Suns in the hands of students at UT, but why does that matter? (4) Because Sun does it does not mean that NeXT should do it, even if they had a FORTRAN compiler to do it with. As I said before, having a Fortran compiler (and translator) available 3rd party is just as good IMHO. Chris -- | Chris Petrilli | petrilli@gnu.ai.mit.edu | I don't even speak for myself.
finn@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Lee Samuel Finn) (05/27/91)
In article <SIMMONS.91May26163744@rigel.neep.wisc.edu> simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu (Kim Simmons) writes: >In article <1991May25.003520.20433@math.ucla.edu> barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes: > > Path: doug.cae.wisc.edu!zazen!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!pico!barry > From: barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.next > Date: 25 May 91 00:35:20 GMT > References: <gzght5+@rpi.edu> <SIMMONS.91May24173142@rigel.neep.wisc.edu> > Sender: news@math.ucla.edu > Organization: UCLA Dept. of Math, UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research > Lines: 19 > > In article <SIMMONS.91May24173142@rigel.neep.wisc.edu> simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu (Kim Simmons) writes: > > > >Would be nice if NeXT supported FORTRAN like Sun and Dec and IBM and HP does. > >This could easily be done via some support for the gnu FORTRAN project. > >However, i guess their lack of support for FORTRAN is consistent with their > >lack of interest in the technical workstation market. > > Well, Sun has un-bundled their fortran compiler; you have > to buy it now. I doubt many individuals could afford that, either. > In general, unbundling compilers seems to be a trend for > computer manufactures these days (another e.g.: Connection Machine). > > > > -- > Barry Merriman > UCLA Dept. of Math > UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research > barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet) barry@arnold.math.ucla.edu (NeXTMail) > > > >True but, >(1) Sun has a FORTRAN compiler, NeXT does not. > >(2) Sun has always and continue to give us their FORTRAN compiler, without us >having to pay for it (so does DEC by the way). > >(3) No students or individuals have Sparcstations around here that i know >i.e. personal purchase as opposed to say University Departmental purchase. > >(4) Because Sun does it does not mean that NeXT should do it, even if they >had a FORTRAN compiler to do it with. >-- >=============================================================================== > Internet: simmons@rigel.neep.wisc.edu > Othernet: simmons@hoofers.lake.mendota >--- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >According to the HitchHikers guide to the galaxy, the one thing we > *cannot* afford to have is a sense of perspective. >=============================================================================== Someone at your University is paying for that FORTRAN compiler; Sun has required payment for it since 1988 (when 4.0 was introduced). [Parenthetically, Suns FORTRAN compiler sucks eggs: it's Awful with a capital A. It generates very inefficient code for math (and that's optimized), the inline code templates have errors, the i/o routines are error laden, and the system calls are buggy as well. If you want to call that a FORTRAN compiler, you're welcome to.] Incidentally, Sun is unbundling C as well: with 5.0, there will be no C of any kind unless you pay extra; if you want a C that optimizes, you will pay more, and if you want an ANSI C, you will pay more yet. With FORTRAN (and now C), Sun has claimed that by charging for them as an extra, they can seperately fund a compiler development group to make the compilers better. IMHO, it hasn't worked with FORTRAN: I've been using Sun FORTRAN since 84, and it has not changed at all (it's still got many of the same bugs now as it did then, and every new release seems to re-introduce bugs that were present in the old release but fixed by interim patch tapes). Now, as for FORTRAN on the NeXT: I've had good experience with the Absoft FORTRAN compiler. The 2.0 version was very buggy, but they responded promptly and effectively to my bug reports, and the 3.0 version is a very nice product. The only problem I've run across with it is that it uses some of the '030 opcodes that are emulated in software on the '030, and this can slow it down on some operations. I've less experience with f2c, except to say that it works. Generally, since it is really a translator, it will work only as well as your C compiler, which on the NeXT is pretty good. The FSF is working on a FORTRAN compiler (really a frontend that generates the intermediate code that the engine of gcc turns into machine language); I've no idea when that will be available.