tohaapanen@watrose.UUCP (Tom Haapanen) (02/20/86)
In article <120@druhi.UUCP> vuser@druhi.UUCP (GerardenC) writes: >From: gti@ihlpm.UUCP (Phelps) > >>You then say how you can not drift a GTI...You obviously don't know >>about LEFT FOOT BRAKING to do this...The Mustang driver would >>benefit from this procedure as well. AGAIN>>>KNOW BEFORE YOU SPEAK! > > <removed personal insult> > >I assume you mean trail braking , This is the PROFESSIONAL term used >when you attempt to transfer weight to the front of an understeering >car. the only effective means of turning the rabbit and its offspring >(I have found) >is using the hand brake to increase the slip angle of the rear tires >thus causing it to oversteer a bit. Well, we have a PROFESSIONAL here. It's funny that the professional rally drivers (World Championship) talk about left foot braking... Indeed, a handbrake turn is an effective way to turn a FWD quickly, but it only works very close to the limit (usually in wet/snow) and it causes a large loss of momentum. A usually simple way to get rid of the understeer is to TAKE YOUR FOOT OFF THE GAS. This will cause a (mild) oversteer effect. Left foot braking can be used very effectively. Witness legendary FWD rally drivers such as Erik "Pa Taket" Carlsson and Stig Blomqvist who have mastered the art of FWD driving. I saw "Race of the Stars" in the summer, with (F1 drivers) Rosberg, Laffite and De Angelis squaring off against (rally drivers) Blomqvist, Alen and Vatanen in a three-part race (road race, slalom and rallycross). The slalom portion was driven in identical Honda CRX's, and Blomqvist just beat the pants off everybody. He would do a tight 360-degree turn around a tree on dry pavement WITHOUT significant loss of speed. So, great FWD performance is possible, but you have to know how to drive! (or hire Stig as your chaffeur...) \tom haapanen watmath!watrose!haapanen I'm all lost in the Supermarket I can no longer shop happily I came in here for that special offer Guaranteed personality (c) The Clash, 1979
vuser@druhi.UUCP (GerardenC) (02/21/86)
In response to : tohaapanen@watrose.UUCP (Tom Haapanen) >In article <120@druhi.UUCP> vuser@druhi.UUCP (GerardenC) writes: >>From: gti@ihlpm.UUCP (Phelps) >> >>>You then say how you can not drift a GTI...You obviously don't know >>>about LEFT FOOT BRAKING to do this...The Mustang driver would >>>benefit from this procedure as well. AGAIN>>>KNOW BEFORE YOU SPEAK! >> >> <removed personal insult> >> >>I assume you mean trail braking , This is the PROFESSIONAL term used >>when you attempt to transfer weight to the front of an understeering >>car. the only effective means of turning the rabbit and its offspring >>(I have found) >>is using the hand brake to increase the slip angle of the rear tires >>thus causing it to oversteer a bit. >Well, we have a PROFESSIONAL here. It's funny that the professional THANK YOU!! thank you tom, I appreciate the complement but i have always considered a professional racer one who makes money by driving the car. as Lord Hesketh once said " the way to make a small fortune in racing .............. is to start with a large one." Tom i enjoy racing , i do it for fun not for profit, I too used to be a magazine racer such as yourself, but after autocrossing, vintage racing, etc. the road reports just dont cut it. Tom I dont know everything about FWD, You see I have found mid engined cars perform significantly better. Are there arguements as to why FWD is better than mid engined RWD? . Would you agree mid engined 4x4 cars are better than all of the above? what do the magazines say? >rally drivers (World Championship) talk about left foot braking... >Indeed, a handbrake turn is an effective way to turn a FWD quickly, >but it only works very close to the limit (usually in wet/snow) and it >causes a large loss of momentum. A usually simple way to get rid of Tom , I think rally driving is the most difficult type of motorsports, I did not find this out by reading it, but taking a FWD car on to a surface similar to rallys . Even lower than average speeds are enough to scare the hell out of me. I dont doubt that the rally drivers can provide useful information , but have you ever put it to use? All this fancy talk about who said blah blah blah is bullshit until you actually are on a course full of cars in your mirror. It is great to know OF all the great techniques it is different to perform them. I was certainly humbled the first time I was on a high speed track with other cars. Tom it looks so easy from the grandstand. >the understeer is to TAKE YOUR FOOT OFF THE GAS. This will cause a >(mild) oversteer effect. i agree ,and loose a great deal of speed. > >Left foot braking can be used very effectively. Witness legendary >FWD rally drivers such as Erik "Pa Taket" Carlsson and Stig Blomqvist >who have mastered the art of FWD driving. I saw "Race of the Stars" >in the summer, with (F1 drivers) Rosberg, Laffite and De Angelis >squaring off against (rally drivers) Blomqvist, Alen and Vatanen in a >three-part race (road race, slalom and rallycross). The slalom >portion was driven in identical Honda CRX's, and Blomqvist just beat >the pants off everybody. He would do a tight 360-degree turn around a >tree on dry pavement WITHOUT significant loss of speed. So, great FWD >performance is possible, but you have to know how to drive! (or hire do you? >Stig as your chaffeur...) > \tom haapanen > watmath!watrose!haapanen BTW - did you read about the pinto problem new VW,s are having? seems that the rear gas tanks might be defective, so much for GERMAN engineering, or will you blame it on american manufacturing? chuck gerarden ihnp4!drutx!druhi!vuser
gti@ihlpm.UUCP (Phelps) (02/24/86)
> In response to : tohaapanen@watrose.UUCP (Tom Haapanen) > > >In article <120@druhi.UUCP> vuser@druhi.UUCP (GerardenC) writes: > >>From: gti@ihlpm.UUCP (Phelps) > >> > >>>You then say how you can not drift a GTI...You obviously don't know > >>>about LEFT FOOT BRAKING to do this...The Mustang driver would > >>>benefit from this procedure as well. AGAIN>>>KNOW BEFORE YOU SPEAK! > >> > >> <removed personal insult> > >> > >>I assume you mean trail braking , This is the PROFESSIONAL term used > >>when you attempt to transfer weight to the front of an understeering > >>car. the only effective means of turning the rabbit and its offspring > >>(I have found) > >>is using the hand brake to increase the slip angle of the rear tires > >>thus causing it to oversteer a bit. > > >Well, we have a PROFESSIONAL here. It's funny that the professional > > THANK YOU!! > thank you tom, I appreciate the complement but i have always considered > a professional racer one who makes money by driving the car. > as Lord Hesketh once said " the way to make a small fortune in racing > .............. is to start with a large one." > Tom i enjoy racing , i do it for fun not for profit, I too used to be > a magazine racer such as yourself, but after autocrossing, vintage racing, > etc. the road reports just dont cut it. > > Tom I dont know everything about FWD, You see I have found mid engined > cars perform significantly better. Are there arguements as to why FWD > is better than mid engined RWD? . Would you agree mid engined 4x4 > cars are better than all of the above? what do the magazines say? > > >rally drivers (World Championship) talk about left foot braking... > >Indeed, a handbrake turn is an effective way to turn a FWD quickly, > >but it only works very close to the limit (usually in wet/snow) and it > >causes a large loss of momentum. A usually simple way to get rid of > > Tom , I think rally driving is the most difficult type of motorsports, I > did not find this out by reading it, but taking a FWD car on to a surface > similar to rallys . Even lower than average speeds are enough to > scare the hell out of me. I dont doubt that the rally drivers can provide > useful information , but have you ever put it to use? All this fancy talk > about who said blah blah blah is bullshit until you actually are on a course > full of cars in your mirror. It is great to know OF all the great techniques > it is different to perform them. I was certainly humbled the first time I > was on a high speed track with other cars. Tom it looks so easy from the > grandstand. > > >the understeer is to TAKE YOUR FOOT OFF THE GAS. This will cause a > >(mild) oversteer effect. > i agree ,and loose a great deal of speed. > > > >Left foot braking can be used very effectively. Witness legendary > >FWD rally drivers such as Erik "Pa Taket" Carlsson and Stig Blomqvist > >who have mastered the art of FWD driving. I saw "Race of the Stars" > >in the summer, with (F1 drivers) Rosberg, Laffite and De Angelis > >squaring off against (rally drivers) Blomqvist, Alen and Vatanen in a > >three-part race (road race, slalom and rallycross). The slalom > >portion was driven in identical Honda CRX's, and Blomqvist just beat > >the pants off everybody. He would do a tight 360-degree turn around a > >tree on dry pavement WITHOUT significant loss of speed. So, great FWD > >performance is possible, but you have to know how to drive! (or hire > > do you? > >Stig as your chaffeur...) > > > > \tom haapanen > > watmath!watrose!haapanen > > BTW - did you read about the pinto problem new VW,s are having? > seems that the rear gas tanks might be defective, so much for > GERMAN engineering, or will you blame it on american manufacturing? > >Low blow Chuck...It was Amurikun manufacturing that caused the recall...The same gas tank and car have been manufactured in Germany for some time, without any problems. Its not the design thats at fault, its the type of mentallity you kind of people have about American manufacturing...i.e. they can do no wrong. Please consider the facts next time before proposing that people will bad rap American quality unecessarily .The engineering was fine. BTW...The gas tank is a plastic design requiring special manufacturing techniques. It works well and is light, but apparently American workers can not seem to produce it well enough. AGAIN>>IT HAS HAD NO PROBLEMS IN GERMANY. > chuck gerarden > ihnp4!drutx!druhi!vuser *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***