ajs@hpfcla.UUCP (01/27/86)
In the past I've read with detached amusement various postings about
speeding tickets. Now, after being branded a criminal on the way in to
work, it's suddenly all very real to me. :-)
Help! I need information or pointers which might help me win in court
(in Colorado). The circumstances are: county road, a 1/2 mile section
with fields on both sides, no side roads at all, caught by radar doing
57 in a 45 zone. Conditions clear, dry, with little traffic. Previous
speed limit sign (45) was 3/4 mile back, before a housing area; the road
"opens up" after leaving that section, but there is a 45 limit on all
county roads unless otherwise posted. Cop admitted to catching seven
people before me.
Do you have any sure-fire means to obviate the use of radar? Or to
argue that I was doing a safe and reasonable speed for the time and
conditions? How about the capricious nature of the speed trap? And
if I lose in court, need I fear worse results than just paying the
ticket by mail?
This really has my dander up. I have a clean record (8+ years), a well
maintained vehicle, and am not a wild driver. I even wear seat belts. :-)
Thanks in advance for any advice you can mail (or post if of general use).
Alan Silverstein, Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Systems Division, Colorado
{ihnp4 | hplabs}!hpfcla!ajs, 303-226-3800 x3053, N 40 31'31" W 105 00'43"mrgofor@mmm.UUCP (MKR) (02/07/86)
In article <13200031@hpfcla.UUCP> ajs@hpfcla.UUCP writes: >In the past I've read with detached amusement various postings about >speeding tickets. Now, after being branded a criminal on the way in to >work, it's suddenly all very real to me. :-) > >Help! I need information or pointers which might help me win in court >(in Colorado). The circumstances are: county road, a 1/2 mile section >with fields on both sides, no side roads at all, caught by radar doing >57 in a 45 zone. Conditions clear, dry, with little traffic. Previous >speed limit sign (45) was 3/4 mile back, before a housing area; the road >"opens up" after leaving that section, but there is a 45 limit on all >county roads unless otherwise posted. Cop admitted to catching seven >people before me. > So you knowingly and willingly violated the law and got caught. >Do you have any sure-fire means to obviate the use of radar? Or to >argue that I was doing a safe and reasonable speed for the time and >conditions? How about the capricious nature of the speed trap? And >if I lose in court, need I fear worse results than just paying the >ticket by mail? > And now you want to weasel out of it. >This really has my dander up. I have a clean record (8+ years), a well >maintained vehicle, and am not a wild driver. I even wear seat belts. :-) > Your poor dander! You must try and get it back down! Let's see - you are indignant that you were accused of doing something that you did indeed do. Hmmm. I'd be pissed, too. >Thanks in advance for any advice you can mail (or post if of general use). > >Alan Silverstein, Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Systems Division, Colorado >{ihnp4 | hplabs}!hpfcla!ajs, 303-226-3800 x3053, N 40 31'31" W 105 00'43" Jeeze! You WERE speeding. You KNEW you could get a ticket for it, but you did it anyway. Now perhaps it's time to grow up and accept responsibility for your actions. PAY UP! I am amazed by the number of people in America who just refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. --MKR
piety@hplabsb.UUCP (Bob Piety) (02/10/86)
> In article <13200031@hpfcla.UUCP> ajs@hpfcla.UUCP writes: > >In the past I've read with detached amusement various postings about > >speeding tickets. Now, after being branded a criminal on the way in to > >work, it's suddenly all very real to me. :-) > > > >Help! I need information or pointers which might help me win in court > >(in Colorado). The circumstances are: county road, a 1/2 mile section > >with fields on both sides, no side roads at all, caught by radar doing > >57 in a 45 zone. Conditions clear, dry, with little traffic. Previous > >speed limit sign (45) was 3/4 mile back, before a housing area; the road > >"opens up" after leaving that section, but there is a 45 limit on all > >county roads unless otherwise posted. Cop admitted to catching seven > >people before me. > > > > So you knowingly and willingly violated the law and got caught. > > >Do you have any sure-fire means to obviate the use of radar? Or to > >argue that I was doing a safe and reasonable speed for the time and > >conditions? How about the capricious nature of the speed trap? And > >if I lose in court, need I fear worse results than just paying the > >ticket by mail? > > > > And now you want to weasel out of it. > > >This really has my dander up. I have a clean record (8+ years), a well > >maintained vehicle, and am not a wild driver. I even wear seat belts. :-) > > > > Your poor dander! You must try and get it back down! Let's see - you are > indignant that you were accused of doing something that you did indeed > do. Hmmm. I'd be pissed, too. > > >Thanks in advance for any advice you can mail (or post if of general use). > > > >Alan Silverstein, Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Systems Division, Colorado > >{ihnp4 | hplabs}!hpfcla!ajs, 303-226-3800 x3053, N 40 31'31" W 105 00'43" > > Jeeze! You WERE speeding. You KNEW you could get a ticket for it, but you > did it anyway. Now perhaps it's time to grow up and accept responsibility > for your actions. PAY UP! I am amazed by the number of people in America > who just refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. > > --MKR There ARE times and places where a law, especially a speed law, is not really justified. Such situations are evident by the majority of drivers going above the posted limit. A friend recently beat a similar ticket by demanding that a speed survey be performed at the given stretch. (Maybe they already had the data and merely produced it for him.) Apparently, a majority of drivers were driving at about 35mph (in the posted 25, where he was doing 35) and thus the citation was thrown out. I don't know all the details, but I belive a traffic engineering report on file listed the stretch as "safe for 35mph" and the majority of cars travelling at that speed nulified the ticket. In other words, the low, 25mph, speed limit was in question and was decided to be unjust. Bottom line: If you believe that most drivers exceed the limit on that stretch, you may be able to follow similar procedures to prove that the limit isn't justified. Apparently MKR, above, would unquestioningly drive at any posted speed without thinking twice-- even 25mph on a 6-lane straightaway. Blatantly disregarding a law (fair or unfair) can cause you (and possibly others) many problems, such as what you are dealing with now. However, people should realize that not all laws are fair and just-- even if they once were, due to circumstances at the time of enactment. Thus, regardless of the outcome of your citation, you might want to take the trouble to get the law changed; write letters, circulate petitions. Unfair laws breed contempt for all laws and should be eliminated. Good luck. Bob
heneghan@ihlpf.UUCP (Heneghan) (02/11/86)
> In the past I've read with detached amusement various postings about > speeding tickets. Now, after being branded a criminal on the way in to > work, it's suddenly all very real to me. :-) > > Help! I need information or pointers which might help me win in court > (in Colorado). The circumstances are: county road, a 1/2 mile section > with fields on both sides, no side roads at all, caught by radar doing > 57 in a 45 zone. Conditions clear, dry, with little traffic. Previous > speed limit sign (45) was 3/4 mile back, before a housing area; the road > "opens up" after leaving that section, but there is a 45 limit on all > county roads unless otherwise posted. Cop admitted to catching seven > people before me. > > Do you have any sure-fire means to obviate the use of radar? Or to > argue that I was doing a safe and reasonable speed for the time and > conditions? How about the capricious nature of the speed trap? And > if I lose in court, need I fear worse results than just paying the > ticket by mail? > > This really has my dander up. I have a clean record (8+ years), a well > maintained vehicle, and am not a wild driver. I even wear seat belts. :-) > > Thanks in advance for any advice you can mail (or post if of general use). > > Alan Silverstein, Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Systems Division, Colorado > {ihnp4 | hplabs}!hpfcla!ajs, 303-226-3800 x3053, N 40 31'31" W 105 00'43" Sounds like you were cought in a speed trap. Since you have a good driving record you can claim "court supervision". You're still out the money (**%##@), but at least your insurance company won't raise your rates. You have to show for court and don't try to buffalo the judge- they've heard it all and then some. Joe Heneghan
braman@dataioDataio.UUCP (Rick Braman) (02/12/86)
> In article <13200031@hpfcla.UUCP> ajs@hpfcla.UUCP writes: > >In the past I've read with detached amusement various postings about > >speeding tickets. Now, after being branded a criminal on the way in to > >work, it's suddenly all very real to me. :-) > > > > Jeeze! You WERE speeding. You KNEW you could get a ticket for it, but you > did it anyway. Now perhaps it's time to grow up and accept responsibility > for your actions. PAY UP! I am amazed by the number of people in America > who just refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. > > --MKR HEAR, HEAR!!! I too am amazed how many Americans are unwilling to accept the consequences of their actions. Just looking at all the court cases where they use plea bargaining to reduce sentences makes me sick. Why don't we start enforcing the laws of the land for once. If you do wrong be prepared to suffer the consequences! -- Rick Braman FutureNet Corp. a division of Data I/O Corp. Redmond, WA UUCP: uw-beaver!entropy!dataio!braman
ins_aeas@jhunix.UUCP (Earle A .Sugar) (02/13/86)
> > In article <13200031@hpfcla.UUCP> ajs@hpfcla.UUCP writes: > > >In the past I've read with detached amusement various postings about > > >speeding tickets. Now, after being branded a criminal on the way in to > > >work, it's suddenly all very real to me. :-) > > > > > > > Jeeze! You WERE speeding. You KNEW you could get a ticket for it, but you > > did it anyway. Now perhaps it's time to grow up and accept responsibility > > for your actions. PAY UP! I am amazed by the number of people in America > > who just refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. > > > > --MKR > > HEAR, HEAR!!! I too am amazed how many Americans are unwilling to accept > the consequences of their actions. Just looking at all the court cases where > they use plea bargaining to reduce sentences makes me sick. Why don't we > start enforcing the laws of the land for once. If you do wrong be prepared > to suffer the consequences! I have an even better idea: return our legal system to its common law roots. If the speed limit on that stretch of road was artificially low, the limit should be changed. Under a common law system, laws whose basis are questioned by as large a segment of the population as questions 55 would simply not exist.> Anyway, some of you seem ready to convict the original poster of a crime against society without hearing all of the evidence. What if the limit on the stretch of road was artifically lower than engineers' estimates for political reasons, or maybe it is a real, intended speed trap (not likely, since most police departments are fairly professional and responsible)? > > -- > > Rick Braman > FutureNet Corp. a division of Data I/O Corp. > Redmond, WA > > UUCP: uw-beaver!entropy!dataio!braman -- ______________________________________________________________________________ Earle A. Sugar Disclaimer:"I doubt anyone else here agrees with me." USENET: ...!seismo!umcp-cs!aplvax!aplcen!jhunix!ins_aeas CSNET:ins_aeas@jhunix.csnet ARPA:ins_aeas%jhunix.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa BITNET: INS_BEAS@JHUVMS (as a last resort) "If you don't expect anything, you'll never be dissappointed." or call 301-889-0815 after 6 P.M. EST
gwn@ihlpm.UUCP (Novak) (02/13/86)
> In article <13200031@hpfcla.UUCP> ajs@hpfcla.UUCP writes: > >In the past I've read with detached amusement various postings about > >speeding tickets. Now, after being branded a criminal on the way in to > >work, it's suddenly all very real to me. :-) > > > >Help! I need information or pointers which might help me win in court > >(in Colorado). The circumstances are: county road, a 1/2 mile section > >with fields on both sides, no side roads at all, caught by radar doing > >57 in a 45 zone. Conditions clear, dry, with little traffic. Previous > >speed limit sign (45) was 3/4 mile back, before a housing area; the road > >"opens up" after leaving that section, but there is a 45 limit on all > >county roads unless otherwise posted. Cop admitted to catching seven > >people before me. > > > > So you knowingly and willingly violated the law and got caught. > > >Do you have any sure-fire means to obviate the use of radar? Or to > >argue that I was doing a safe and reasonable speed for the time and > >conditions? How about the capricious nature of the speed trap? And > >if I lose in court, need I fear worse results than just paying the > >ticket by mail? > > > > And now you want to weasel out of it. > > >This really has my dander up. I have a clean record (8+ years), a well > >maintained vehicle, and am not a wild driver. I even wear seat belts. :-) > > > > Your poor dander! You must try and get it back down! Let's see - you are > indignant that you were accused of doing something that you did indeed > do. Hmmm. I'd be pissed, too. > > >Thanks in advance for any advice you can mail (or post if of general use). > > > >Alan Silverstein, Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Systems Division, Colorado > >{ihnp4 | hplabs}!hpfcla!ajs, 303-226-3800 x3053, N 40 31'31" W 105 00'43" > > Jeeze! You WERE speeding. You KNEW you could get a ticket for it, but you > did it anyway. Now perhaps it's time to grow up and accept responsibility > for your actions. PAY UP! I am amazed by the number of people in America > who just refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. > > --MKR Here, here!!!! With your attitude I would suggest that they (the law) throw the book at you and lock you up for your 8 years of 'safe' driving. You are wrong and you should suffer the consequenences incurred for such irresponsible driving habits.
carl@vger.UUCP (Carl Hewitt) (02/19/86)
> > >In the past I've read with detached amusement various postings about > > >speeding tickets. Now, after being branded a criminal on the way in to > > >work, it's suddenly all very real to me. :-) > > > > > >Help! I need information or pointers which might help me win in court > > >(in Colorado). > > > > So you knowingly and willingly violated the law and got caught. > > > > >Do you have any sure-fire means to obviate the use of radar? Or to > > >argue that I was doing a safe and reasonable speed for the time and > > >conditions? How about the capricious nature of the speed trap? And > > >if I lose in court, need I fear worse results than just paying the > > >ticket by mail? > > > > And now you want to weasel out of it. > > > > >This really has my dander up. I have a clean record (8+ years), a well > > >maintained vehicle, and am not a wild driver. I even wear seat belts. :-) > > > > > Your poor dander! You must try and get it back down! Let's see - you are > > indignant that you were accused of doing something that you did indeed > > do. Hmmm. I'd be pissed, too. > > > > >Thanks in advance for any advice you can mail (or post if of general use). > > > > > Jeeze! You WERE speeding. You KNEW you could get a ticket for it, but you > > did it anyway. Now perhaps it's time to grow up and accept responsibility > > for your actions. PAY UP! I am amazed by the number of people in America > > who just refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. > > > Here, here!!!! > > With your attitude I would suggest that they (the law) throw the book > at you and lock you up for your 8 years of 'safe' driving. You are > wrong and you should suffer the consequenences incurred for such > irresponsible driving habits. Give me a large break, will you? I hope you realize that at least 50% of the driving population does not observe the 55 MPH speed limit in the first place (at least in California). That's 1 out of every 2 people, which means chances are, that if you don't speed, you could just as well be harassing the person next to you. I don't support unsafe driving, and I think that some roads (many of which were built for speeds in excess of 75 MPH) can be safely driven at higher speeds when the conditions allow it. And anyone that hasn't gotten a ticket in eight years is certainly an above average driver, considering that you don't have to INTENTIONALLY break the law to get one. If you don't mind abiding a ridiculous law that was made because people were frantic about where their next gallon of gas was going to come from, go ahead, but don't criticize the other half of the population. -- Carl C. Hewitt ------------------------------- UUCP: ucbvax!ucscc!carl CSNET: carl@ucsc.CSNET Bitnet: carl@ucscd.BITNET -------------------------------
ajs@hpfcla.UUCP (02/19/86)
Re: I needed help with a speeding ticket To those of you who responded by mail or postings with constructive suggestions or advice: Thank you. Unfortunately, I had to either pay by mail within ten days (about 1/2 average USENERD settling time :-) or commit to an uncertain court fight. It was uncertain because I could not morally fight the clocked speed, only the reasonableness of that speed under conditions (sorry for asking about how to obviate the radar). I decided to pay up, then try to get the speed limit raised to something reasonable. The constructive suggestions were mainly to either plea-bargain or try to get off on a technicality concerning the radar, e.g. was it licensed, recently calibrated, recorded, operator trained, etc. Well, that didn't seem satisfactory; I felt (and still feel) I did not actually commit a crime commensurate with the punishment, and should simply be able to establish same to an impartial judge. But after hearing a number of horror stories, I "got real" and gave up. To those of you who saw this as a wonderful opportunity to get on your high holier-than-thou horse and moralize to the aggrandizement of your own egos: You can shove your soapboxes where the sun don't shine. If I ever want that sort of abuse, I'll still go elsewhere for it. Meditate on the letter vs. the spirit of the law, and how wise and mature it is to condemn without knowing the facts. To those of you who quoted large amounts of material before responding: Please don't do that! Nobody wants to reread all the guff. And this response will probably go out as a damned orphaned response, too. Sigh. "You just can't fight the system." Alan Silverstein
chip@vaxwaller.UUCP (Chip Kozy) (03/01/86)
> If you don't mind abiding a ridiculous law that was made because people > were frantic about where their next gallon of gas was going to come from, > go ahead, but don't criticize the other half of the population. > > -- Carl C. Hewitt By the same token, if you knowingly and willfully break that law, you should knowingly and willfully accept the consequences, and not try to squirm out from under. If you blew it by mistake, explain it to the judge...that's what he's there for. If you don't like the law, work to get it changed instead of bellyaching about it. Happiness; Chip