mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (10/14/85)
Come on, this obviously belongs in net.jokes. How could anyone take seriously a
statement like:
"... one ends up having to struggle for days to
figure out how do things with Unix that could be determined in a
few minutes with a DEC or IBM manual."
Find anything useful in a few minutes in a DEC or IBM manual? Don't be
ridiculous.
Scott McEwan
{ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan
"Given a choice, most people would rather not be attacked by
horrid undersea slime creatures."
"NO!"
"Truth hurts."sommar@enea.UUCP (Erland Sommarskog) (10/18/85)
In article <9700101@uiucdcs> mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU writes: > >Come on, this obviously belongs in net.jokes. How could anyone take seriously a >statement like: > "... one ends up having to struggle for days to > figure out how do things with Unix that could be determined in a > few minutes with a DEC or IBM manual." >Find anything useful in a few minutes in a DEC or IBM manual? Don't be >ridiculous. Why not? I don't know anything but IBM, but I've made with VMS-manuals several times.
roger@celtics.UUCP (Roger Klorese) (10/18/85)
In article <9700101@uiucdcs> mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU writes: > >Come on, this obviously belongs in net.jokes. How could anyone take seriously a >statement like: > "... one ends up having to struggle for days to > figure out how do things with Unix that could be determined in a > few minutes with a DEC or IBM manual." >Find anything useful in a few minutes in a DEC or IBM manual? Don't be >ridiculous. > > > Scott McEwan I can certainly take it seriously. For the most part, Unix documentation tells you how to use some command, function, etc. whose existence and function you already know - pure reference. Alas, there is no tutorial, or "User's Guide," furnished in standard documentation. (We at Celerity ship a commodity Unix paperback with each system.) Is it the job of an OS supplier to furnish "how-to" books (i.e., how to back up, how to add users, how to build programs for the specific OS)? Sure is. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ... "What were you expecting, rock'n'roll?" | |Roger B.A. Klorese | |Celerity Computing, 40 Speen St., Framingham, MA 01701, (617) 872-1772 | |UUCP: ARPA: | |decvax-\ bang-\ celerity!celtics!roger@sdcsvax.ARPA | |ucbvax--\ akgua-\ | |ihnp4----\-sdcsvax-\-celerity!celtics!roger - or - | |- or - celtics!roger@bu-cs.ARPA | |seismo----\harvard---\bu-cs!celtics!roger | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
gds@mit-eddie.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (10/20/85)
Unix may have its problems, but I'd rather wander through the man pages,
documentation and (gasp!) the source code, rather than look through 100
IBM manuals trying to find out what IEFBR14 means.
--
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under.
Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{decvax!genrad, allegra, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds
gds@mit-eddie.mit.edupeter@graffiti.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (10/21/85)
> >Find anything useful in a few minutes in a DEC or IBM manual? Don't be > >ridiculous. > > Why not? I don't know anything but IBM, but I've made with VMS-manuals > several times. You must have different VMS manuals in Sweden than we do here. They're better than the RSX manuals, but that's like saying stubbing your toe is better than dropping an anvil on it. Around here we call DEC manuals "write-only". Quick: why is all the documentation on RSX terminal I/O hidden in a document on writing I/O drivers? Although the new AT&T manuals aren't too great: the documentation on terminal I/O in there is hidden inside the administrator's guide. Why, I'll never figure out...
iwm@icdoc.UUCP (Ian Moor) (10/22/85)
In article <9700101@uiucdcs> mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU writes: > >Come on, this obviously belongs in net.jokes. How could anyone take seriously a >statement like: > "... one ends up having to struggle for days to > figure out how do things with Unix that could be determined in a > few minutes with a DEC or IBM manual." >Find anything useful in a few minutes in a DEC or IBM manual? Don't be >ridiculous. I just pull down the VMS manual marked 'master index', wheareas on Unix* I er, er... *Somebody admits responsiblity for Unix -- Ian W Moor UUCP: seismo!mcvax!ukc!icdoc!iwm ARPA: iwm%icdoc@ucl Department of Computing Whereat a great and far-off voice was heard, saying, Imperial College. Poop-poop-poopy, and it was even so; and the days 180 Queensgate of Poopy Panda were long in the land. London SW7 Uk.
iwm@icdoc.UUCP (Ian Moor) (10/22/85)
In article <150@mit-eddie.UUCP> gds@mit-eddie.UUCP (Greg Skinner) writes: >Unix may have its problems, but I'd rather wander through the man pages, >documentation and (gasp!) the source code, rather than look through 100 >IBM manuals trying to find out what IEFBR14 means. How about the system messages manual ? It lists them in order. -- Ian W Moor UUCP: seismo!mcvax!ukc!icdoc!iwm ARPA: iwm%icdoc@ucl Department of Computing Whereat a great and far-off voice was heard, saying, Imperial College. Poop-poop-poopy, and it was even so; and the days 180 Queensgate of Poopy Panda were long in the land. London SW7 Uk.
tp@ndm20 (10/29/85)
>>Unix may have its problems, but I'd rather wander through the man pages, >>documentation and (gasp!) the source code, rather than look through 100 But what if you don't have the sources? I don't, and I certainly can't justify the price of them for my site. Better documentation IS needed. >>IBM manuals trying to find out what IEFBR14 means. >How about the system messages manual ? It lists them in order. You just illustrated one of the problems with IBM. I doubt you will find IEFBR14 in the system messages manual, because it is a program. Sure looks like an error code doesn't it? It happens to be one of the most important and useful programs on an IBM - it does absolutely nothing! I think this alone says something about IBM. (You see BR 14 is the IBM return instruction ... Who knows or cares what IEF is (some sort of facility code I believe)). IBM uses this program a lot because JCL can't actually do anything without running a program, even if the program does nothing. Want to delete a file? Set up your DD cards so the file is deleted on program exit, and then run IEFBR14! What could be simpler or more intuitive? Who needs a delete file command when there is such an obviously superior method available? Terry Poot Nathan D. Maier Consulting Engineers (214)739-4741 Usenet: ...!{allegra|ihnp4}!convex!smu!ndm20!tp CSNET: ndm20!tp@smu ARPA: ndm20!tp%smu@csnet-relay.ARPA
jsdy@hadron.UUCP (Joseph S. D. Yao) (10/31/85)
In article <254@ivax.icdoc.UUCP> iwm@icdoc.UUCP (Ian Moor) writes: >In article <9700101@uiucdcs> mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU writes: >>Find anything useful in a few minutes in a DEC or IBM manual? Don't be >>ridiculous. >I just pull down the VMS manual marked 'master index', wheareas on Unix* >I er, er... >*Somebody admits responsiblity for Unix Yes, and after that? When I do this, it is because I am near despair, and need to be pushed over the edge. Trying to find any but the most trivial and obvious references in the master index causes