isbell@ucscf.UCSC.EDU (Art Isbell) (06/12/91)
Reprinted from the front page of InfoWorld, 10 June, without permission and
without correction of their spellings of various NeXT products:
Next Develops 88110 Workstation, Triples Speed Without Affecting Price
Next, Inc. has developed a RISC-based prototype NextStation that triples
the performance of the black cube without raising the current price tag.
According to sources, the Motorola 88110-based unit will perform at 50 to
60 million instructions per second (MIPS) and can replace the company's current
line of 68030- and 68040-based systems. The unit may ship late this year of in
early 1992, they added.
The 88110 has integrated graphics, Paged Memory Management Unit (PMMU) and
floating-point coprocessing tasks. It can also handle some digital signal
processing (DSP) directly. Those integrated features will allow Next to save
on the cost of additional chips, sources said.
With 12 megabytes of RAM, a 100-megabyte hard disk drive, and a 16-inch
color monitor, the RISC NextStation could sell for approximately what the
current 68040 design does, sources said.
The 88110 being evaluated by Next runs at 40 MHz and turns in 50 to 60
MIPS, sources said. The 88110 also features a superscalar design, which allows
more than one instruction per clock cycle.
When combined with Motorola's 96002 compression chip -- which Motorola is
reportedly offering to Next at a reduced price -- the motherboard of the RISC
unit can now support all the functions now assigned to the Next Dimension
board.
If the product is brought to market, Next would drop the Next Dimension
board entirely, along with Intel Corp.'s i860 and C-Cube Microsystem's
compression chip, sources said.
The move to RISC for Next could be a precarious one, however. In its brief
history, the company has already had difficulty wooing developers to its
platform.
The move to RISC would require that software be completely recompiled,
developers and sources said.
When the 68040-based NextStation was announced last year, Next founder
Steve Jobs said he wanted to stay with a CISC design to minimize software
issues.
According to sources familiar with the 88110 prototype however, the
price/performance of RISC might be too good to pass up.
"Besides, this is the best time to make this transition. Right now there
aren't that many Next users. It's going to be harder to do later," one source
noted.
Apple Computer, Inc. is also considering the processor for its RISC
platform. (See "Apple Plans RISC-Based System for 1992 Release," May 27,
Page1.)
Motorola is expected to officially announce the 88110 later this year.
The Race to RISC
Sun Microsystems SUN Sparcstation II / NOW SHIPPING
Chip: Sparc Processor 40 MHz
Speed: 28.5 MIPS
Price: $14,995
IBM RS/6000 Model 320H / NOW SHIPPING
Chip: IBM Powerchip 25 MHz
Speed: 27.5 MIPS
Price: $17,970
Next, Inc. / DUE 1992
Chip: Motorola 88110 with Motorola 96002 DSP
Speed: 50-60 MIPS
Price: Expected under $10,000
ACE Consortium: Compaq, DEC, and others / DUE 1992
Chip: MIPS R4000
Speed: 50 MIPS
Price: Expected $10,000
--
_____ ____
Art Isbell |\ | HELP! | | | \ 315 Moon Meadow Lane
NeXT Registered Developer | \ | ___ |____| | | Felton, CA 95018-9442
isbell@ucscf.UCSC.EDU | \ | |___| | \ | | (408)335-1154
=> I NEED TO FIND NeXT ==> | \| |___ | \ |___/ ==> DEVELOPMENT WORK <=scott@mcs-server.gac.edu (Scott Hess) (06/14/91)
In article <16973@darkstar.ucsc.edu> isbell@ucscf.UCSC.EDU (Art Isbell) writes:
With 12 megabytes of RAM, a 100-megabyte hard disk drive, and a 16-inch
color monitor, the RISC NextStation could sell for approximately what the
current 68040 design does, sources said.
Regardless of whether the rest of the article is correct, I'm on my
knees praying that this part is not. An 88000 machine with that disk
space and that memory, running _color_, no less, would probably not
perform noticably better than the NextStation 105M in the area of
_perceived_ performance (the important stuff - the performance you
see when you double-click an icon to launch an app, or swithc between
apps, or work with pictures . . .)
To see my point, compare a NextStation105 w/8M RAM with one w/16M
(on a network, so you can import all the extended edition stuff).
The 16M machine is loads faster. The NextStation400 w/16M is
even better - and if you run more than about 3 apps, 32M will
be what you need (unless you use Mathimatica, or throw lots of
data around - in which case it's _required_).
For the 88000 series, things are worse. For one, the instruction
set will tend to give bigger programs - that's part of the whole
idea behind RISC, to use simpler instructions, and more of them.
The 88000 isn't as bad as some, but programs will appear more
bloated than 68000-targeted versions. So, the disk space and
memory space are mucho important.
[ Lastly, some flamage. Alot of people make fun of EPS (and
lately, myself) for our insistance that no matter the
raw performance of your CPU, you really are going to need
the memory and disk space. Rather than attempt to argue,
as most apparently don't listen, I would advise anyone
who's doubtful to go out and find a NextStation400M
w/16M or 32M of memory, and a 105M machine with 8M, and
do a side-by-side comparison. It will literally blow your
socks off. We're not talking fractions of a second
differences here - in many cases, it's order of _magnitude_.
For instance, launch Edit on a file on the 105/8 machine.
Then, on the 400/16 machine. The 400/16 is fast enough
that you really don't notice the launch time, while the 105/8
takes long enough that you start to get up to pace the room.
That's the difference between enjoying your time on the machine,
and spending it in frustration . . .]
Later,
--
scott hess scott@gac.edu
Independent NeXT Developer Graduated GAC Undergrad!
<I still speak for nobody>
Note: I have moved home for a time. My email address will still be
valid. Any SnailMail should be redirected, along with phone calls.
At the least, my parents can tell you how to get hold of me, or
forward any mail . . .
Old: PO 829, GAC, St. Peter, MN 56082 (507) 933-8466
New: RR#4 Box 227 Pipestone, MN 56164 (507) 825-2788rreid@DPW.COM (r l reid ) (06/15/91)
In article <SCOTT.91Jun14003836@mcs-server.gac.edu> scott@mcs-server.gac.edu (Scott Hess) writes: > >[ Lastly, some flamage. Alot of people make fun of EPS (and > lately, myself) for our insistance that no matter the > raw performance of your CPU, you really are going to need > the memory and disk space. Since I just made noises about being "happy" withg 030 and 8 megs, I'll blather on that I accept all that you say here. It's not like I don't have a use for a faster CPU, and more memory. I know that for my applications I would see fantastic speed increases. Look, as long as it'll do D/A conversion of at least 16-bit 20K mono quality, I don't care if it has a 6502 in it and has to compile all night! My "wish list" is why-o-why do I have to spend an extra $700 to get the A/D - not that I should complain, it's a lot cheaper than I could do it on any other machine. Ro who also plays a bass hse paid $15 for
edwardm@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Edward McClanahan) (06/15/91)
InfoWorld writes: > When combined with Motorola's 96002 compression chip -- which Motorola is > reportedly offering to Next at a reduced price -- the motherboard of the RISC > unit can now support all the functions now assigned to the Next Dimension > board. > If the product is brought to market, Next would drop the Next Dimension > board entirely, along with Intel Corp.'s i860 and C-Cube Microsystem's > compression chip, sources said. Several posters have argued the merits of such a decision. They should recall that all NeXT's currently have a Integer/Fixed-point DSP (Moto 56001). Going to the Floating-point DSP (Moto 96002) allows the DSP to serve both the current tasks assigned to the DSP as well as the NeXTDimension's graphics functions ON THE PROCESSOR BOARD. In other words, the ND functionality comes along rather cheaply in the upgrade of the DSP (to faster floating point). One concern I would have is how effectively the graphics and DSP tasks will share the 96002. I am under the impression that the current 56001 is basically single tasking (i.e. the OS doesn't provide support for multi-tasking of the DSP). Any ideas? > The Race to RISC > Sun Microsystems SUN Sparcstation II / NOW SHIPPING > Chip: Sparc Processor 40 MHz > Speed: 28.5 MIPS > Price: $14,995 > IBM RS/6000 Model 320H / NOW SHIPPING > Chip: IBM Powerchip 25 MHz > Speed: 27.5 MIPS > Price: $17,970 > Next, Inc. / DUE 1992 > Chip: Motorola 88110 with Motorola 96002 DSP > Speed: 50-60 MIPS > Price: Expected under $10,000 > ACE Consortium: Compaq, DEC, and others / DUE 1992 > Chip: MIPS R4000 > Speed: 50 MIPS > Price: Expected $10,000 Sorry to be a little biased, but it never ceases to amaze me how many lists like this leave off HP: Hewlett Packard 9000/720 / NOW SHIPPING Chip: HP-PA (proprietary) 50MHz Speed: ~55 Mips Price: ~$15,000 (I don't really know) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Edward McClanahan Hewlett Packard Company -or- edwardm@cup.hp.com Mail Stop 42UN 11000 Wolfe Road Phone: (408)447-5651 Cupertino, CA 95014 Fax: (408)447-5039
hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy)) (06/15/91)
Edward forgot to mention the even better one: Hewlett Packard 9000/730 / NOW SHIPPING Chip: HP-PA (proprietary) 66 MHz Speed: ~72 Mips Price: Less than IBM (I'm not good at remebering 5-digit prices ;-)). Greetings, Hardy -------****------- Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy); Department of Physics, University of California Irvine CA 92717; (714) 856 5543; hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu or MMAYER@UCI.BITNET