snoopy@ecrcvax.UUCP (Sebastian Schmitz) (10/16/85)
Summary: Expires: References: <cyb-eng.747> Sender: Reply-To: snoopy@ecrcvax.UUCP (Sebastian Schmitz) Followup-To: Distribution: net Organization: European Computer-Industry Research Centre, Munchen, W. Germany Keywords: I fully agree with you, bc. The one that really gets me is 'kernal'. It should of course be 'kernEl'. -- Love, Sebastian (Snoopy) "You haven't done it, till you've done it with pointers" \!mcvax\!unido\!ecrcvax\!snoopy /* N.B. valid csh address */
bjorns@kuling.UUCP (Bjorn Sjoholm) (10/17/85)
In article <747@cyb-eng.UUCP> bc@cyb-eng.UUCP (Bill Crews) writes: > ... >There are many more, of course. I really don't want to read about >anyone else's compatAbility problems. Of course, I will, anyway. I >would enjoy informative followups to this, because every time misspellings >and language abuses cross the net, many people are led to believe such >usages are correct! It feeds upon itself. > ... I think think that what 'bc' says makes a lot of sense! BUT, you have to remember that many (most?) people on the net, does not have english as their everyday language. I, myself, don't have too much trouble with english, (I think!) since I have lived in the US for a year. -- Bjorn Sjoholm, Computer Science, University of Uppsala, Sweden uucp: bjorns@kuling.UUCP (...!{seismo,mcvax}!enea!kuling!bjorns)
jim@randvax.UUCP (Jim Gillogly) (10/18/85)
I just love it when people send spelling and grammar kvetches. That gives us all a chance to peer at them with a fine-toothed eyeball (oops, mixed metaphor) and rend them asunder without risking much of ourselves. The case in point: In article <747@cyb-eng.UUCP> bc@cyb-eng.UUCP (Bill Crews) writes: >Postings to the net routinely contain typographical errors. Most of my >postings are done via vi, but sometimes it is direct, and it is hard to ^^^^^ blew the agreement. "they are" >correct something typed "up there". Reading these typos is integral to >reading net news. > >However, many of the misspellings are repeated consistently, and seem to >be actual misspellings, however surprising that may be, given the average >education level of net posters. This is not to flame, but to inform the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Well, I may be cheating here, but this looks like an assumption of an unsubstantiated pseudo-fact. For one thing, I don't know what the average education level of net posters is; and for another I don't know whether those who post creative spellings and grammatical gaucheries are at the average education level of net posters, many of whom seem to use their language (usually English, Dutch, or Esperanto) fluently. That was reaching a little, and I agreed with the rest of the message anyway, so I'll quit while (if?) I'm ahead... after I proofread this one twice more. -- Jim Gillogly {decvax, vortex}!randvax!jim jim@rand-unix.arpa
abbajay@oracle.UUCP (Dave Abbajay) (10/19/85)
In article <747@cyb-eng.UUCP>, bc@cyb-eng.UUCP (Bill Crews) writes: > Postings to the net routinely contain typographical errors. Most of my > postings are done via vi, but sometimes it is direct, and it is hard to > correct something typed "up there". Reading these typos is integral to > reading net news. > > However, many of the misspellings are repeated consistently, and seem to > be actual misspellings, however surprising that may be, given the average > education level of net posters. This is not to flame, but to inform the > net of the spelling of some words commonly misspelled on the net. > > Wrong Right > > compatable compatible > psuedo- pseudo- > seperate separate > wierd weird > recieve receive > [OMITTED TEXT] > - bc - > If Bill could use all 5 words in a single sentence, we'd all be much happier. Hey, I CAN'T spell, that's why I became a 'C' programmer! Dave Abbajay Senior Technical Staff ORACLE Corporation (415)854-7350
bc@cyb-eng.UUCP (Bill Crews) (10/21/85)
> I think think that what 'bc' says makes a lot of sense! > > BUT, you have to remember that many (most?) people on > the net, does not have english as their everyday language. > > Bjorn Sjoholm, Computer Science, University of Uppsala, Sweden 1. I think the major perpetrators (sp?) of these acts are good ol' Americans. 2. Spelling is a nit, but it is easy to point out and, thus, to correct, and it is simply basic literacy -- not anything that should really be a significant issue. 3. Other language abuses are just as frequent and confusing, if not bothersome, but I didn't want my "hit" on the net to be too big. 4. I would hope English-as-a-second-language types spell better in their native languages than do Americans in theirs. 5. My primary point was to point out that a lot of people read this stuff, and people have a tendency to model their writings and speech after (get this) that to which they are used. So it is a minor, but present, duty to provide a correct presentation to the net. I wish the literacy of the average American were as high as that of the average European. It may be, but I doubt it. -- - bc - ..!{seismo,topaz,gatech,nbires,ihnp4}!ut-sally!cyb-eng!bc (512) 835-2266
stephen@datacube.UUCP (10/21/85)
>Postings to the net routinely contain typographical errors. Most of my >... >..!{seismo,topaz,gatech,nbires,ihnp4}!ut-sally!cyb-eng!bc (512) 835-2266 I agree. My particular choice is "mnemonic" misspelled as "pneumonic". Even worse, I hear it pronounced "noo-monic" instead of "nee-monic". Stephen Watkins UUCP: ihnp4!datacube!stephen Datacube Inc.; 4 Dearborn Rd.; Peabody, Ma. 01960; 617-535-6644
sra@oddjob.UUCP (Scott R. Anderson) (10/23/85)
In article <117@oracle.UUCP> abbajay@oracle.UUCP (Dave Abbajay) writes: > >Hey, I CAN'T spell, that's why I became a 'C' programmer! Can you spell `C'? Scott Anderson ihnp4!oddjob!kaos!sra
galenr@iddic.UUCP (Galen Redfield) (10/25/85)
In article <1900005@datacube.UUCP> stephen@datacube.UUCP writes: > >>Postings to the net routinely contain typographical errors. Most of my >>... (etc.) > >I agree. My particular choice is "mnemonic" misspelled as "pneumonic". Even >worse, I hear it pronounced "noo-monic" instead of "nee-monic". ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ >Stephen Watkins UUCP: ihnp4!datacube!stephen >Datacube Inc.; 4 Dearborn Rd.; Peabody, Ma. 01960; 617-535-6644 I agree!! Boy, I sure hate it when I hear words pronounced incorrectly on the net, too! ;-) You may not be likely to hear it pronounced "nee-monic", since the correct (most dictionaries) pronunciation is more like "nimmonic" (short "i" sound, not long "e", but it should probably be a short "e" sound). In the long run, a word is pronounced however most people say it, and scholars try to determine just what that is, and finally whether to adopt that pronunciation. (So, tell me something I don't know, right?) Say, how can you tell whether "they" pronounced the wrong word correctly, or the correct word incorrectly?? Perhaps if they tried some mnemonics (not the computer opcode kind), they could remember how to pronounce the correct word correctly! On the other hand, speaking is somewhat pneumonic, since it involves the use of lungs (and other things, sometimes including the brain). Here are a few more boo-boo's I've noticed, which have bothered me when I was in a botherable mood.... * "rather" instead of "whether" as in, "Ask her rather or not she went to the review meeting." * "doing" instead of "during" as in, "We would like to stop by for a short tour of your plant some time doing the week." * "dampened" instead of "damped" as in, "It looks to me like that system is overdampened." (Does this mean it's all wet?) * "orthagonal" instead of "orthogonal" (the former is not a real word, as far as I know, but sounds like it comes from "agony") I wish I could remember more of them. They sometimes seem humorous, especially when one can sense an innocent ignorance in the person making these errors. Or, it can become aggravating when repeated excessively. To forgive is devine, but nearly impossible at times. Some people just ain't as literate as we is, is they? Warm regards, Galen.
jsdy@hadron.UUCP (Joseph S. D. Yao) (10/25/85)
In article <747@cyb-eng.UUCP> bc@cyb-eng.UUCP (Bill Crews) writes: >Remember, "i before e except after c" however wEIrd that may look. and, when sounded as 'A', as in "neighbor" and "weigh". (For our British compatriots, that is indeed "neighbour" -- see the 'u'? ;-)) -- Joe Yao hadron!jsdy@seismo.{CSS.GOV,ARPA,UUCP}
perl@rdin.UUCP (Robert Perlberg) (10/25/85)
>I agree. My particular choice is "mnemonic" misspelled as "pneumonic". Even >worse, I hear it pronounced "noo-monic" instead of "nee-monic". > > >Stephen Watkins UUCP: ihnp4!datacube!stephen >Datacube Inc.; 4 Dearborn Rd.; Peabody, Ma. 01960; 617-535-6644 There used to be a company that made (lousy) digitizers named "Numonics"! Robert Perlberg Resource Dynamics Inc. New York {philabs|delftcc}!rdin!perl
kay@warwick.UUCP (Kay Dekker) (10/26/85)
In article <1900005@datacube.UUCP> stephen@datacube.UUCP writes: >I agree. My particular choice is "mnemonic" misspelled as "pneumonic". Even >worse, I hear it pronounced "noo-monic" instead of "nee-monic". Wonderful! Unfortunately, I've never seen this misspelling: however, it does conjure up some wonderful ideas... mnemonic plague, mnematic tyres, etc. Kay. -- "The only good thing that I can find to say about the idea of colonies in space is that America could, at last, have a world to herself." -- Elisabeth Zyne ... mcvax!ukc!warwick!flame!kay
mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (10/27/85)
The two(2) that really bug me are "to" instead of "too" or "two", and
"loose" where "lose" is intended. It seems I see the wrong words much
more often then I see the right ones used on the net.
Scott McEwan
{ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan
"Analysis, Spock?"
"Very bad poetry, sir."dbmk1@stc.UUCP (10/28/85)
In article <2340@flame.warwick.UUCP> kay@warwick.UUCP (Kay Dekker) writes: >"The only good thing that I can find to say about the idea of colonies >in space is that America could, at last, have a world to herself." > -- Elisabeth Zyne But they already have - ask any US netter. -- Regards Derek !seismo!mcvax!ukc!stc!dbmk1 I've heard that re-incarnation is making a come-back.
andrew@stc.UUCP (10/28/85)
In article <2260@iddic.UUCP> galenr@iddic.UUCP (Galen Redfield) writes: >In article <1900005@datacube.UUCP> stephen@datacube.UUCP writes: >> >>I agree. My particular choice is "mnemonic" misspelled as "pneumonic". Even >>worse, I hear it pronounced "noo-monic" instead of "nee-monic". > >I agree!! Boy, I sure hate it when I hear words pronounced >incorrectly on the net, too! ;-) Speaking of bad pronounciation, I find it exceedingly irritating when a news-reader says: ( mis-spelled to indicate pronounciation ) seketry as in "The Seketry of State" Febry as in "this Febry was the coldest on record" Libray (same complaint really) Another complaint is subject to regional variation, here in the south east of england ( a generalisation I KNOW that there is a lot of variation) they say: wenzda- whereas in the rest of the British isles one will hear the `d' as in wednzda- A lot of this is now vanishing (thank you BBC), but it is annoying when local peculiarities are broadcast as ``standard english''. -- Regards, Andrew Macpherson. <andrew@stc.UUCP> {aivru,creed,datlog,iclbra,iclkid,idec,inset,root44,stl,ukc}!stc!andrew
hobs@ihu1n.UUCP (John A. Hobson) (10/28/85)
The one that really bugs me is "alot" spelled as one word. It is TWO (2) words: "a lot". There is a word "allot", which means to portion out. -- John Hobson AT&T Bell Labs Naperville, IL ihnp4!ihu1n!hobs
ronse@prlb2.UUCP (Ronse) (10/29/85)
Scott McEwan (mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU), in his message <9700105@uiucdcs>, writes: > The two(2) that really bug me are "to" instead of "too" or "two", and > "loose" where "lose" is intended. It seems I see the wrong words much ----------------------------------- > more often then I see the right ones used on the net. ---------- ^^^^ ------------------------------------ Indeed. ;-}
dgary@ecsvax.UUCP (D Gary Grady) (10/30/85)
> The one that really bugs me is "alot" spelled as one word... > -- John Hobson Me too! I also blow up over the misuse of "to comprise." The Union comprises 50 states, not the other way around. I'll bite my tongue about the mistreatment of "data" and "media" as sigulars. Ghmnxxf... -- D Gary Grady Duke U Comp Center, Durham, NC 27706 (919) 684-3695 USENET: {seismo,decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary
hes@ecsvax.UUCP (Henry Schaffer) (10/30/85)
> The one that really bugs me is "alot" spelled as one word. It is > TWO (2) words: "a lot". There is a word "allot" ... > John Hobson The one that really bugs me is that "alot" is not spelled as one word (the way it is pronounced.) If it were spelled as one word, it would improve many people's spelling! --henry schaffer ncsu
jsdy@hadron.UUCP (Joseph S. D. Yao) (10/31/85)
In article <117@oracle.UUCP> abbajay@oracle.UUCP (Dave Abbajay) writes: >In article <747@cyb-eng.UUCP>, bc@cyb-eng.UUCP (Bill Crews) writes: >> Wrong Right >> compatable compatible >> psuedo- pseudo- >> seperate separate >> wierd weird >> recieve receive >If Bill could use all 5 words in a single sentence, we'd all be much >happier. The weird C programmer received a pseudo-compatible program in separate modules ... ;-) -- Joe Yao hadron!jsdy@seismo.{CSS.GOV,ARPA,UUCP}
sukenick@ccnysci.UUCP (10/31/85)
> ronse@prlb2.UUCP : >>Scott McEwan : > >> The two(2) that really bug me are "to" instead of "too" or "two", and >> "loose" where "lose" is intended. It seems I see the wrong words much > ----------------------------------- >> more often then I see the right ones used on the net. > ---------- ^^^^ ------------------------------------ > >Indeed. ;-} Your absolutely correct! :#) ^^^^ ^ (Yuck!) :-* To those persons guilty of this horrendous crime, the correct usage is : "you're" or, even better, " you are ". :-) (Wow! If my english teacher could see me now! She would be proud!) :-] :-) :-) ( Was that two too many smilies to use? :-) ) -GDS-
suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (11/01/85)
> A lot of this is now vanishing (thank you BBC), but it is annoying > when local peculiarities are broadcast as ``standard english''. How bland if there were no different accents to a spoken language. And who is to say that one is more correct than another? Though I agree on actually mispronounced words. I was taught that the proper way to pronounce a place or name is the same as the inhabitants or the named person (or its owners', if its an animal,) pronounces it. -- Suzanne Barnett-Scott uucp: ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze phone: (602) 998-4800 us mail: CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division (Formerly Terak Corporation) 14151 N 76th street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) (11/02/85)
One non-literate strangeness I've run across was "anotherwards," which several students used because they didn't know the phrase was "in other words." I'd also like to flame the pronunciation "nukular" instead of "nuclear." Some of the most hysterical mispronunciations I've heard were in commercials. Like the one urging San Joaquin Valley listeners to drink Florida orange juice (and pronouncing the place as Ho-a-keen). Or the commercial that assured that an airline knew all about Los Angeles (pronounced Lows Anjeleez). Then there's people who mix words from several different languages and then mispronounce them. Like the newscaster who talked about the head honcho of the junta. The weirdest pronunciation mixup I've had was the time in Boston I called Information to get the phone number of Mark Swanson and was told, "I don't have a Mark Swanson at that address. I do have a Mock Swanson." Any Bostonians reading this who can tell me how to spell the name that that operator pronounced Mark. (Marc? Marque?) --Lee Gold
scott@cstvax.UUCP (Scott Larnach) (11/03/85)
Pipe your article through spell(1). Now if anyone has anything to contribute *that isn't covered by the above statement* I'd like to hear it. -- Scott Larnach Janet: scott@uk.ac.ed.cstvax Edinburgh Unix Support Arpa: scott@cstvax.ed.ac.uk Tel: +44 31 667 1081 x2629 Uucp: scott@cstvax.uucp
tp@ndm20 (11/03/85)
>There used to be a company that made (lousy) digitizers named >"Numonics"! There still is. They also make plotters nowadays. The digitizers aren't bad, but it takes some creative cabling to make them work in tandem with the terminal, and there is no way to keep their data off the terminal screen. Terry Poot Nathan D. Maier Consulting Engineers (214)739-4741 Usenet: ...!{allegra|ihnp4}!convex!smu!ndm20!tp CSNET: ndm20!tp@smu ARPA: ndm20!tp%smu@csnet-relay.ARPA
dave@uwvax.UUCP (Dave Cohrs) (11/04/85)
> One non-literate strangeness I've run across was "anotherwards," which > several students used because they didn't know the phrase was "in other > words." This reminds me of another phrase which I caught myself using the other day -- "a whole nuther". Luckily, now that I recognize this strangeness, I can avoid it (and keep it from spreading). -- Dave Cohrs (608) 262-1204 ...!{harvard,ihnp4,seismo,topaz}!uwvax!dave dave@romano.wisc.edu
debray@sbcs.UUCP (Saumya Debray) (11/04/85)
One that really irritates me is the use of "lay" when the user means "lie",
as in "I was laying on my bed when ...". It's bad enough to have to hear
it from the plebs, I now find the rot spreading to the radio as well!
Don't these people know that in polite society, "lay" is not used as a
present tense verb in public?
--
Saumya Debray
SUNY at Stony Brook
uucp: {allegra, hocsd, philabs, ogcvax} !sbcs!debray
arpa: debray%suny-sb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
CSNet: debray@sbcs.csnetmike@rlvd.UUCP (Mike Woods) (11/05/85)
In article <14@cstvax.UUCP> scott@cstvax.UUCP (Scott Larnach) writes: > >Pipe your article through spell(1). > >Now if anyone has anything to contribute *that isn't covered by the >above statement* I'd like to hear it. Try this: spell -b bodys ^D I've been working on a spell correction program for somewhile (in my spare time). To generate a dictionary I took the contents of our news spool directory, tokenised it and did a sort -u. I then passed it through spell(1) to remove the garbage. When I came to look at what spell had accepted I decided never to use spell again! Mike Woods. -- UK JANET: mike@uk.ac.rl.vd UUCP: ..!mcvax!ukc!rlvd!mike
dgary@ecsvax.UUCP (D Gary Grady) (11/05/85)
> Though I agree on actually mispronounced words. I was taught > that the proper way to pronounce a place or name is the same > as the inhabitants or the named person (or its owners', if its > an animal,) pronounces it. > -- > Suzanne Barnett-Scott Dick Snow (rms@ecsvax) once hooked up a speech synthesizer and to test it typed the word "computer." "Kahm-POO-ter" said the box. Henceforth I have held that this machine, at least, should be called a compooter. Interesting to wonder about what constitutes "correct" pronunciation. Evidently not majority rule. Consider the adjective "consummate" (ultimate, perfect, utter), which most Americans (at least) pronounce "KAHNsummit" instead of "kahnSUMmit" as the dictionaries would have it. Back to names: My family name was (and still is, some places) pronounced to rhyme with laddy. My cousin Elizabeth Grady says the change in pronunciation took place when one of the many Grady lawyers set up practice in Wilmington, NC. The first client was a loooonnng time coming. When he finally appeared in the door, he asked, "Are you the lawyer Grady?" pronouncing the name to rhyme with lady. "Indeed I am," said my esteemed relative, and that was that. -- D Gary Grady Duke U Comp Center, Durham, NC 27706 (919) 684-3695 USENET: {seismo,decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary
bc@cyb-eng.UUCP (Bill Crews) (11/06/85)
Second installment: Basic literacy
Noun Wrong verb Right verb
administration administrate administer
registration registrate register
--
- bc -
..!{seismo,topaz,gatech,nbires,ihnp4}!ut-sally!cyb-eng!bc (512) 835-2266mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (11/07/85)
> Scott McEwan (mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU), in his message <9700105@uiucdcs>, > writes: > >> The two(2) that really bug me are "to" instead of "too" or "two", and >> "loose" where "lose" is intended. It seems I see the wrong words much > ----------------------------------- >> more often then I see the right ones used on the net. > ---------- ^^^^ ------------------------------------ > > Indeed. ;-} for (i=0; i<100; i++) { write_on_blackboard ("I will proofread SEVERAL times before posting a spelling flame.\n"); } Yes, I do know the difference between "than" and "then". Scott McEwan {ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?"
jvc@stl.UUCP (Vic Churchill) (11/07/85)
(Scott Larnach) writes: > >Pipe your article through spell(1). > >Now if anyone has anything to contribute *that isn't covered by the >above statement* I'd like to hear it. ... "dependent" vs. "dependant" aaaargh!!
ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (11/08/85)
> Noun Wrong verb Right verb > administration administrate administer Unfortunately, officialspeak has made "administrate" a perfectly legal word. It's listed without prejudice in both my Random House and Websters dictionaries. Registrate is out, however. My favorite of these words is "certificated," which is used by the FAA all throughout their regulations. It means (to them), having gotten a certificate (as different from being certified, I guess). -Ron
wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (11/09/85)
How about "mnemoynics" for the instruction set of the [ Starship ] Enterprize's main computer?
dgary@ecsvax.UUCP (D Gary Grady) (11/11/85)
> . . . It's listed without prejudice in both my Random House > and Websters dictionaries. Minor point: "Webster's dictionary" is a generic name, as is "Roget's Thesaurus." Many dictionary publishers having no connection with each other produce "Webster's" dictionaries, such as the "Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary" published by Merriam. I have even seen a "Webster's Encyclopedia"! The true "Webster's Dictionary" was compiled by Noah Webster (1758-1843) and is worth a look. Webster introduced many of the differences between the spelling of American and English, such as "center" versus "centre" and (I think) "jail" versus "gaol." Many of his definitions and examples are intentionally funny, often with England on the receiving end of the joke. -- D Gary Grady Duke U Comp Center, Durham, NC 27706 (919) 684-3695 USENET: {seismo,decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary
devine@asgb.UUCP (Robert J. Devine) (11/12/85)
> In article <912@rlvd.UUCP> mike@rlvd.UUCP (Mike Woods) writes: > > I've been working on a spell correction program for somewhile (in my > spare time). To generate a dictionary I took the contents of our > news spool directory, tokenised it and did a sort -u. I then passed > it through spell(1) to remove the garbage. When I came to look at > what spell had accepted I decided never to use spell again! Three years ago I wrote a spell(1)-like program for a VMS machine. To generate a dictionary, I grabbed the UNIX dictionary off of a campus machine. It may have just been that the system administrator had loaded it with various words without checking their spelling. Regardless of their origin, many misspelled words were present. So, be wary! Don't take "spell" as the final authority. Bob
gdmr@cstvax.UUCP (George D M Ross) (11/12/85)
In article <248@stl.UUCP> jvc@stl.UUCP (Vic Churchill) writes: >(Scott Larnach) writes: >> >>Pipe your article through spell(1). >>Now if anyone has anything to contribute *that isn't covered by the >>above statement* I'd like to hear it. > >... "dependent" vs. "dependant" aaaargh!! Not to mention perpretrators of to/too/two confusion, and of/off and lots of other cringeworthy things..... -- George D M Ross, Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Edinburgh Phone: +44 31-667 1081 x2730 UUCP: <UK>!ukc!cstvax!gdmr JANET: gdmr@UK.AC.ed.cstvax
robert@cheviot.uucp (Robert Stroud) (11/14/85)
I can't resist joining in any longer. My pet concern is a very small word which comes in two forms. It's amazing how few people seem to know which of its forms to use! Robert Stroud, Computing Laboratory, University of Newcastle upon Tyne. UUCP ...!ukc!cheviot!robert ARPA robert%cheviot.newcastle@ucl-cs.ARPA JANET robert@newcastle.cheviot
landauer@drivax.UUCP (Doug Landauer) (11/20/85)
Robert Stroud says: > I can't resist joining in any longer. My pet concern is a very small > word which comes in two forms. It's amazing how few people seem to know > which of its forms to use! Yes, it's sad to see its misuse on the net. Another common net mistake that bugs me is/are the three spellings of "to", which are apparently two too many to handle.
rose@sdcsvax.UUCP (Dan Rose) (11/24/85)
In article <732@ecsvax.UUCP> dgary@ecsvax.UUCP (D Gary Grady) writes: >> . . . It's listed without prejudice in both my Random House >> and Websters dictionaries. > >Minor point: "Webster's dictionary" is a generic name, as is "Roget's >Thesaurus." Many dictionary publishers having no connection with each >other produce "Webster's" dictionaries, such as the "Webster's New >Collegiate Dictionary" published by Merriam. I have even seen a >"Webster's Encyclopedia"! ---------- It's true that anyone can call themselves a Webster's dictionary or Roget's thesaurus, but there ARE two publishers which have a reasonable claim to the names: The "real" Roget's thesaurus is published by a company called something like Crowell, and can trace its origins back to Roget, who came up with the idea of classifying words by meaning rather than alphabetically. (The "new" alphabetically-indexed thesauruses (pl?) are self-defeating). Anyway, I believe the Crowell edition is edited by one of Roget's descendants. The "real" Webster's dictionary IS published by Merriam-Webster. I'm not sure of the relationship, but this one can somehow be traced back to Noah Webster's. Merriam-Webster publishes primarily two dictionaries, a big one ". . . Nth International . . ." and a little one ". . . Nth Collegiate . . ." The Third International, which came out sometime in the past twenty years (I think), created a furor by including many new words and spellings because the editors felt usage warranted it. Language purists predicted the demise of English As We Know It. It hasn't happened yet, but I worry about it every nite :-). The most recent Collegiate (9th?) has been criticized for having "mutually recursive" definitions. For this reason, many people prefer the American Heritage, though personally I disagree. -- Dan -- Dan (not Broadway Danny) Rose rose@UCSD
dgary@ecsvax.UUCP (D Gary Grady) (11/25/85)
In article <1227@sdcsvax.UUCP> rose@sdcsvax.UUCP (Dan rose) writes: >In article <732@ecsvax.UUCP> dgary@ecsvax.UUCP (D Gary Grady) writes: >> >>Minor point: "Webster's dictionary" is a generic name . . . >It's true that anyone can call themselves a Webster's dictionary [but] >The "real" Webster's dictionary IS published by Merriam-Webster. >[Merriam Webster's] Third International, >which came out sometime in the past twenty years (I think), created >a furor by including many new words and spellings because the editors >felt usage warranted it. Language purists predicted the demise of >English As We Know It. It hasn't happened yet, but I worry about it >every nite :-). The most recent Collegiate (9th?) has been criticized >for having "mutually recursive" definitions. For this reason, many >people prefer the American Heritage, though personally I disagree. You're quite right, of course, and I plead guilty to not having said as much in my posting. My point was that saying "Webster's Dictionary" doesn't say much; "Webster's New International" and "Webster's Collegiate" are quite specific. As for the furor over the Third International (sounds like something socialist...), it stems not just from new definitions but from Merriam's retreat from a prescriptive dictionary to a merely descriptive one. There are many other problems with Merriam, including the use of multiple alphabetical lists instead of just one, listing definitions in order of oldest attested use (which means you've got to wade through obsolete meanings to get to the good stuff), and so on. Finally, it is a poor guide to usage, a flaw not shared by the (one, true, original) American Heritage. Funk and Wagnalls is not bad either, and it has the funniest name of any of them. One other myth about dictionaries deserves puncturing: When multiple spellings or pronunciations are given, it is NOT true that the one give first is necessarily "preferred" (if you doubt me, read the frontmatter in any dictionary). The use-the-first rule is a guideline in the Chicago Manual of Style, not a statement about what the dictionary publishers themselves are doing. -- D Gary Grady Duke U Comp Center, Durham, NC 27706 (919) 684-3695 USENET: {seismo,decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary