lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) (06/22/89)
It's quiz time! How do *you* route to something like
janus.mcr.adhocnet.ca
from a UUCP site?
--
Lyndon Nerenberg VE6BBM / Computing Services / Athabasca University
{alberta,decwrl,ncc}!atha!lyndon || lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CAskl@van-bc.UUCP (Samuel Lam) (06/23/89)
In article <637@aurora.AthabascaU.CA>, lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) wrote: >How do *you* route to something like > janus.mcr.adhocnet.ca >from a UUCP site? *.adhocnet.CA has a gateway on the BITNET host UNCAEDU at University of Calgary. Since you are already in Edmonton, maybe the path ...!calgary!UNCAEDU.BITNET!janus.mcr.adhocnet.ca!..., or just the ...!calgary!janus.mcr.adhocnet.ca!... will do it. ...Sam -- Samuel Lam {alberta,watmath,uw-beaver,cs.ubc.ca}!ubc-cs!van-bc!skl
rayan@ai.toronto.edu (Rayan Zachariassen) (06/23/89)
In article <637@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes:
# It's quiz time! How do *you* route to something like
#
# janus.mcr.adhocnet.ca
#
# from a UUCP site?
Very carefully?
You don't. They don't exist. Well, actually they do, but their .CA isn't
the .CA everyone else knows even if they might think so. Try asking someone
at U of Calgary, I think their Computer Centre is the gateway to this thing.
While you're at it, feel free to pressure them to mend their ways.
Mail kieffer@uncaedu.bitnet for further information.molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) (06/23/89)
In article <637@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes:
# It's quiz time! How do *you* route to something like
#
# janus.mcr.adhocnet.ca
#
# from a UUCP site?
That address is bogus. Gateways should reject it. There is no such
registered 2ld under CA. Until it IS registered, adhocnet.ca should not
be used. Period.
--
Tom Molnar
Unix Systems Group, University of Toronto Computing Services.molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) (06/23/89)
In article <2483@van-bc.UUCP> skl@van-bc.UUCP (Samuel Lam) writes:
# In article <637@aurora.AthabascaU.CA>, lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA
# (Lyndon Nerenberg) wrote:
# >How do *you* route to something like
# > janus.mcr.adhocnet.ca
# >from a UUCP site?
#
# *.adhocnet.CA has a gateway on the BITNET host UNCAEDU at University
# of Calgary.
While UNCAEDU may well act as a gateway for adhocnet.ca, BITNET doesn't
explicitly list said gateway. On BITNET, *.CA is sent to this gateway
(also known as UTORGPU), and we certainly do not acknowledge
the existance of adhocnet.ca until John Demco gives his blessing.
--
Tom Molnar
Unix Systems Group, University of Toronto Computing Services.forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) (06/27/89)
The following "should" work form UUCP. Alberta!calgary!janus.mrc.adhocnet.ca!user /Russ postmaster@janus.mrc.adhocnet.ca
forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) (06/27/89)
In article <1989Jun23.101803.6850@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) writes: > In article <637@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes: > # It's quiz time! How do *you* route to something like > # > # janus.mcr.adhocnet.ca > # > # from a UUCP site? > > That address is bogus. Gateways should reject it. There is no such > registered 2ld under CA. Until it IS registered, adhocnet.ca should not > be used. Period. > -- Thats a bit harsh don't you think? Did you ever think we just might be trying to get registered? No I think not. In any case *.AdhocNet.CA was a name we 'cooked up' when our network was in its infancy. We are attempting to register as .MtRoyal.AB.CA but that has not yet gone through (its been over 2 months now). UNCANET.BITNET knows about us as well as Calgary.uucp our address is ...!calgary!janus.mrc.adhocnet.ca!username ...or... user%janus.mrc.adhocnet.ca@uncanet.bitnet hope this helps. /Russ postmaster@janus.mrc.adhocnet.ca
lamy@ai.utoronto.ca (Jean-Francois Lamy) (06/27/89)
Tom Molnar writes: >> That address is bogus. Gateways should reject it. There is no such >> registered 2ld under CA. Until it IS registered, adhocnet.ca should not >> be used. Period. Russ Forster replies: > Thats a bit harsh don't you think? Did you ever think we just might > be trying to get registered? No I think not. You can't expect gateways to .ca to do anything sensible if you pick a name out of a hat and *then* try to get it registered. In fact, even if you get it registered first, you can't expect to start using it until it propagates to the Internet name servers for .CA (a matter of hours/days at most), and the UUCP and NetNorth tables (days to weeks). > We are attempting to register as .MtRoyal.AB.CA > but that has not yet gone through (its been over 2 months now). When the forwarders are already decided (do you have yours?), and there are no objections to your choice of name (which I doubt there is in this case), and the check is in the mail, I've seen registrations go in quite quickly. I see no trace in the UUCP registry archives of discussions about mtroyal.ab.ca, and have seen no requests to registry@ai.utoronto.ca either, which may just mean that you are applying via some other channel. Any idea of where/why your application is stuck? Jean-Francois Lamy lamy@ai.utoronto.ca, uunet!ai.utoronto.ca!lamy AI Group, Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) (06/27/89)
forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) writes: # molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) writes: # > That address is bogus. Gateways should reject it. There is no such # > registered 2ld under CA. Until it IS registered, adhocnet.ca should not # > be used. Period. # > -- # # Thats a bit harsh don't you think? Did you ever think we just might # be trying to get registered? No I think not. I'm afraid the tone of my earlier posting was harsh, and for that I apologize. However, as my colleague Jean-Francois Lamy has stated, it is not a good idea for anyone to use a domain style address that is not registered. The gateways have no clue how to handle mail for unregistered domains. Unregistered domains have been a source of aggravation to me ever since we became a gateway. It doesn't matter if you are in the process of registering or not, please don't use a domain until it is in fact registered and have established at least one forwarder. This gateway only knows how to reach registered domains -- we have no knowledge of up and coming registrations. -- Tom Molnar Unix Systems Group, University of Toronto Computing Services.
lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) (06/27/89)
In article <1563@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP> forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) writes: > *.AdhocNet.CA was a name we 'cooked up' when our network was > in its infancy. We are attempting to register as .MtRoyal.AB.CA > but that has not yet gone through (its been over 2 months now). bogus! Bogus!! BOGUS!!! > > UNCANET.BITNET knows about us as well as Calgary.uucp and absolutely NOBODY else on the planet knows about you. Are you having fun explaining to your users why they don't seem to be receiving mail? *I'm* sure having fun explaining to my users why they can't send mail to you ... > hope this helps. Yes, it helps convince everyone that domains are a waste of time. [ Gotta go - my keyboards melting :-) ] -- Lyndon Nerenberg VE6BBM / Computing Services / Athabasca University {alberta,decwrl,ncc}!atha!lyndon || lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA If everyone quit smoking, drinking, and buying gas, the nation would probably go bankrupt.
forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) (06/30/89)
In article <89Jun27.081644edt.11740@neat.ai.toronto.edu>, lamy@ai.utoronto.ca (Jean-Francois Lamy) writes: > Tom Molnar writes: > > You can't expect gateways to .ca to do anything sensible if you pick a name > out of a hat and *then* try to get it registered. In fact, even if you get it > registered first, you can't expect to start using it until it propagates to > the Internet name servers for .CA (a matter of hours/days at most), and the > UUCP and NetNorth tables (days to weeks). Actually, Adhocnet was registered without anyone asking. We were informed that we had to use .CA and that is why its there. We've had it for a couple of years, it seems that only recently that the .CA is getting wider use. > When the forwarders are already decided (do you have yours?), and there are no > objections to your choice of name (which I doubt there is in this case), and > the check is in the mail, > My understanding is that UGuelph handles .CA. UNCANET will Handle .AB. so if these are our forwarders then yes that part has been set up. Whats all this about a cheque? I don't remember seeing anything saying we needed for fork out $$$. > Jean-Francois Lamy lamy@ai.utoronto.ca, uunet!ai.utoronto.ca!lamy /Russ Russell M. Forster ...!calgary!forster ..or.. RMF%Janus.MtRoyal.AB.CA@uncanet.bitnet
forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) (06/30/89)
In article <651@aurora.AthabascaU.CA>, lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes: > > and absolutely NOBODY else on the planet knows about you. Are you having > fun explaining to your users why they don't seem to be receiving mail? > *I'm* sure having fun explaining to my users why they can't send mail > to you ... > Surprisingly a great deal of mail is received. People who *want* to reach us can, and do. I still maintain that we have attempted to register .mtroyal.ab.ca (as a replacement for the bogus *.adhocnet.ca domain, but its not gone through yet. /Russ
forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) (06/30/89)
In article <1989Jun27.104021.6304@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) writes: > forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) writes: > # molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) writes: > # > That address is bogus. Gateways should reject it. There is no such > # > registered 2ld under CA. Until it IS registered, adhocnet.ca should not > # > be used. Period. > # > -- Thinking back to this comment, I suppose that if *I* were the domain maintainer I would take this attitude to. The problem really started when Adhocnet.CA "escaped" our local area DECnet network. I'm not sure how we can retract the domain for a short time while registering. It would drive our mailers batty too :-). > It doesn't matter if you are in the process of registering or not, please don't > use a domain until it is in fact registered and have established at least one > forwarder. This gateway only knows how to reach registered domains -- we have > no knowledge of up and coming registrations. Again, I'm not sure how to retract it. I'll attempt to reregister us and see if that helps. /Russ
lamy@ai.utoronto.ca (Jean-Francois Lamy) (07/01/89)
forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) writes: > My understanding is that UGuelph handles .CA. UNCANET will Handle > .AB. so if these are our forwarders then yes that part has been set up. A forwarder is a machine that knows what to do with mail addressed to mtroyal.ab.ca; optimally you would have one for each of the Internet, CDNNET, UUCP and Bitnet gateways. The forwarder takes the message, massages the header to suit your network, and sends the message to you, through whatever route is required. If you look at the tables for bitnet, UUCP or the internet you will see a mapping from a domain name like mtroyal.ab.ca to a machine that takes care of it; not all machines under .ab.ca need have the same forwarder. At least on the Internet and UUCP there is no global entry for .CA; all officially registered sites appear individually in the tables, and if it's not there its bogus, and if it's there it's official. > Whats all this about a cheque? I don't remember seeing anything > saying we needed for fork out $$$. You can register in a number of ways. UUCP sites can apply to registry@ai.utoronto.ca and there is a small "paperwork fee" to cover the expenses of running the organization and attending relevant meetings. Internet sites usually set up their own name servers and ask John Demco (demco@ean.ubc.ca) to delegate authority to their site once they have filled up the administrative details. I am unaware of the Netnorth set-up. Jean-Francois Lamy lamy@ai.utoronto.ca, uunet!ai.utoronto.ca!lamy AI Group, Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) (07/01/89)
forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) writes:
# My understanding is that UGuelph handles .CA. UNCANET will Handle
# .AB. so if these are our forwarders then yes that part has been set up.
Until quite recently, UGuelph handled .CA for NetNorth. All BITNET and EARN
mail destined to *.CA was sent to CANADA01 (UGuelph) for resolution.
The Canada <-> U.S. NetNorth-BITNET link was relocated to Toronto.
The machine that gateways *.CA traffic from BITNET and EARN is now located
at Toronto and is in fact this machine, utgpu.uucp (aka utorgpu.bitnet,
gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca).
I am listed as the person responsible for the NetNorth CA gateway (not the
domain administration, just the gateway).
I'm afraid I have no extra knowledge of up and comming registrations. All I
can do is check the primary nameserver data or look at the list of registered
CA domains. UNCANET may well be set up to gateway traffic that has .AB.
in it (do you mean .AB.CA or .AB.??), but I can't find any reference to it
in the registry. A generic .AB.CA gateway hasn't been registered anywhere
that I can see. The only site that has registered under .AB.CA is apss.ab.ca.
The CA domain is now in full use across the major Canadian networks whether
we like it or not. Administrative authority for the CA domain lies with
John Demco of CDNNet in UBC. The three major networks (UUCP, NETNORTH, CDNNET)
all have representatives who are able to handle registrations and issues
relating to the CA domain.
If you've had difficulty in registering something, please follow up with
one of the reps or with John Demco directly. A speedy resolution of this
problem will benefit all of us.
--
Tom Molnar
Unix Systems Group, University of Toronto Computing Services.lamy@ai.utoronto.ca (Jean-Francois Lamy) (07/01/89)
molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) writes: >I am listed as the person responsible for the NetNorth CA gateway (not the >domain administration, just the gateway). The person responsible for NetNorth registrations is Roger Watt (rogerwat@watdcs.uwaterloo.ca). UUCP is handled by Rayan Zachariassen (registry@ai.utoronto.ca) (he also maintains the UUCP maps for Canada as path@ai.utoronto.ca). John Demco (demco@ean.ubc.ca) manages the CDNNET side of things and is the official authority over the Ca domain as far as the Internet is concerned. >If you've had difficulty in registering something, please follow up with >one of the reps or with John Demco directly. A speedy resolution of this >problem will benefit all of us. I have been shown the MtRoyal.Ab.Ca application (it came out of the NetNorth side of things a couple of days ago -- odd coincidence?). We may all find this incredibly bureaucratic, but we should not underestimate the difficulties involved. The policy of "one organization-one domain" has forced institutions that had no internal connectivity and machines on all 4 networks to sit down and talk, sometimes for the first time ever. It has forced the 4 networks to sit down and talk, and sometimes one gets the impression it was for the first time ever, too. Things like bitnet to uucp gatewaying are not necessarily trivial, either. There are also lots of misconceptions that need to be corrected. For example, many applications come in with Forwarder: UUCP: none (not connected). Well, not being connected is exactly why you need a forwarder -- a machine on your network that will relay mail from the alien networks. Oh well, these things take time... Jean-Francois Lamy lamy@ai.utoronto.ca, uunet!ai.utoronto.ca!lamy AI Group, Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) (07/06/89)
In article <1989Jun30.224636.25675@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, molnar@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom Molnar) writes: > forster@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Russ Forster) writes: > # My understanding is that UGuelph handles .CA. UNCANET will Handle > # .AB. so if these are our forwarders then yes that part has been set up. > > I'm afraid I have no extra knowledge of up and comming registrations. All I > can do is check the primary nameserver data or look at the list of registered > CA domains. UNCANET may well be set up to gateway traffic that has .AB. > in it (do you mean .AB.CA or .AB.??), but I can't find any reference to it > in the registry. A generic .AB.CA gateway hasn't been registered anywhere > that I can see. The only site that has registered under .AB.CA is apss.ab.ca. The UNCANET nad stated that he would handle *.AB.CA. If he has not registered himself stating this, then that might explain why none of the other registrations went through, as we all sent our registrations to him. The problem still is that .MtRoyal.AB.CA 's only link to netnorth is through UNCANET (or maybe UNCAEDU). I have sent another registraion through to the registry and I have stated that UNCANET is the forwarder. I hope this is ok. > Tom Molnar > Unix Systems Group, University of Toronto Computing Services. thanks for all your help. We'll see how the second registration goes. /Russ