m1tag00@fed.frb.gov (Tim A. Grunwald) (06/24/89)
I use Gnews as my news reader. It works pretty well. I especially like the indexing capability of Gnews. Gnews is a little sluggish at times though. Going from one news group to another can take anywhere from 5 to 20 seconds. When a new news group arrives it can take 30 to 60 seconds to get the names of the new groups. One feature missing from Gnews that I would really like is a dired mode on all the news group names (an option for subscribed groups only, or all news groups). One could move randomly through all the news group names reading only those that interested them that day. Does GNUS solve any of the problems I have with Gnews? What features does GNUS have that Gnews doesn't and vice versa? Thanks for any help. Tim Grunwald Federal Reserve Board, Washington, DC, 20551 uucp: uunet!fed!m1tag00 internet: m1tag00@fed.frb.gov
umerin@photon.stars.flab.fujitsu.junet (Masanobu UMEDA) (06/29/89)
Date: 23 Jun 89 17:33:20 GMT From: m1tag00%fed.frb.gov%fed@uunet.uu.net (Tim A. Grunwald) Organization: Federal Reserve Board I use Gnews as my news reader. It works pretty well. I especially like the indexing capability of Gnews. GNUS has the same functionaly, of course. One feature missing from Gnews that I would really like is a dired mode on all the news group names (an option for subscribed groups only, or all news groups). One could move randomly through all the news group names reading only those that interested them that day. GNUS has all the functionalities you want. Does GNUS solve any of the problems I have with Gnews? What features does GNUS have that Gnews doesn't and vice versa? GNUS uses three Emacs buffers: Newsgroup buffer is for browsing newsgroups, Subject buffer for browsing subjects and other important headers in a newsgroup, and Article buffer for browsing an article. You can select a newsgroup in the Newsgroup buffer using dired like interface. When you select a newsgroup in this buffer, the Subject buffer and the Article buffer are displayed instead of the Newsgroup buffer, and the point is placed in the Subject buffer. In Subject buffer, you can browse through headers in the newsgroup, and you can read articles you are interested in. In addition, these window configurations can be customized using an Elisp variable. For example, you can display these three buffers at the same time. Please try GNUS! Masanobu UMEDA umerin@flab.Fujitsu.CO.JP umerin%flab.Fujitsu.JUNET@uunet.uu.NET
rich@sendai.sendai.ann-arbor.mi.us (K. Richard Magill) (06/29/89)
I used Gnews for as long as I could stand it; then went back to rn. I
now use gnus exclusively. Purely subjectively, it *feels* faster than
rn on my machines.
In article <442@mqws2.fed.FRB.GOV> m1tag00@fed.frb.gov (Tim A. Grunwald) writes:
Does GNUS solve any of the problems I have with Gnews?
Nearly all of them. There is actually a dired-by-newsgroup in gnews
someplace although I never really got it working.
What features does GNUS have that Gnews doesn't and vice versa?
(I speak from 3.11, I haven't put up 3.12 yet.)
GNUS:
* speed.
* works out of the box.
* speed.
* smooth newsgroup ordering. (as of 3.12 or 3.11+tale's hacks.)
* uses (or can use) standard .newsrc.
* but weak on kill file handling.
* online help. (info page.)
Gnews:
* nearly infinite flexibility but doesn't really work "out of the box".
* no help. (or is there one now?)
* with "enough" horsepower and "some startup cost" it's an impressive
newsreader.
Try it. it doesn't take up much space and since it pretty much works
"out of the box" there isn't much startup cost associated with it.
--
rich.msb@ho5cad.att.com (Mike Balenger) (06/29/89)
> I use Gnews as my news reader. It works pretty well. I > especially like the indexing capability of Gnews. That's the default in gnus. > Gnews is a little sluggish at times though. Going from > one news group to another can take anywhere from 5 to 20 seconds. > When a new news group arrives it can take 30 to 60 seconds to > get the names of the new groups. Yeah, that pissed me off, too. I switched from Gnews to gnus, and was pleased with the faster response. > One feature missing from Gnews that I would really like > is a dired mode on all the news group names (an option for subscribed > groups only, or all news groups). One could move randomly through all > the news group names reading only those that interested them that day. This is what I figured you meant by dired mode. It's the default. Initially, you are presented with a list of groups, like this: 4: comp.risks 85: comp.software-eng * 1: gnu.announce 30: gnu.emacs.bug you then select a group, and get a list of subjects, like this: 111: [1430:bob@tut.cis.] GNUS 3.12 (07 of 10) 112: [1388:bob@tut.cis.] GNUS 3.12 (09 of 10) 113: [1362:bob@tut.cis.] GNUS 3.12 (08 of 10) 114: [820:bob@tut.cis.o] GNUS 3.12 (10 of 10) D 118:+[ 22:m1tag00@fed.f] GNUS vs. Gnews 119: [ 40:umerin@photon] GNUS vs. Gnews You then select (or delete) an article and read (or skip) it. Or follow-up, or save as mail, or save as a file, or reply, or patch, or ... You bounce between selecting groups in newsgroup-mode, and selecting articles in subject-mode. (I probably didn't get the names right, but that's the idea.) This (dired/index) interface has allowed me to read/weed articles much more efficiently. With Gnews, I had to see the article before I realized I didn't want to read it, and I had to be in a newsgroup before I realized that it was (was not) important. As you mentioned, this could take 5-30 seconds. Quite an investment only to discover that you're not interested in the info that was returned. There was no easy way to get a big picture of the group/article organization and pick out the high priority items. With gnus, I CAN get this picture, and get much more info for a smaller investment in time. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- <cute quote> Michael S. Balenger (201) 949-8789 <cute disclaimer> AT&T Bell Labs Room 1L-405 msb@ho5cad.att.com Crawfords Corner Road att!ho5cad!msb Holmdel, NJ 07733
kim@kannel.lut.fi (Kimmo Suominen) (06/30/89)
In article <RICH.89Jun29025958@sendai.sendai.ann-arbor.mi.us> rich@sendai.sendai.ann-arbor.mi.us (K. Richard Magill) writes: From: rich@sendai.sendai.ann-arbor.mi.us (K. Richard Magill) Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.gnus Date: 29 Jun 89 06:59:58 GMT References: <442@mqws2.fed.FRB.GOV> Sender: rich@sendai.UUCP Reply-To: rich@sendai.ann-arbor.mi.us Organization: Digital Works, Ltd. - Ann Arbor, MI Lines: 36 I used Gnews for as long as I could stand it; then went back to rn. I now use gnus exclusively. Purely subjectively, it *feels* faster than rn on my machines. Even if GNUS feels faster than rn, there's a program that feels even faster and that is nn. The reason I'm still using GNUS and not nn is, that I'm feel more familiar with the key bindings in GNUS and the overall method of handling articles. And I'm using GNU Emacs all the time when I'm working, so it is very handy to edit files, read news and handle mail all with the same program. Earlier I had to jump between programs, which sometimes got very frustrating when waiting for things to load up. Kim -- ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ( Kimmo Suominen Electronic Mail on Internet: kim@kannel.lut.fi ) ( "That's what I think!" on Funet: KUULA::KIM ) '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
marvit@hplpm.hpl.hp.com (Peter Marvit) (09/28/89)
Could someone post a short functional diff between GNUS and Gnews. I'm a dedicated GNUS user, myself... -Peter "G 'r Me" Marvit HP Labs
felix@AI.SRI.COM (Francois Felix INGRAND) (10/01/89)
In article <MARVIT.89Sep27195723@hplpm.hpl.hp.com>, marvit@hplpm (Peter Marvit) writes: >Could someone post a short functional diff between GNUS and Gnews. I'm a >dedicated GNUS user, myself... I started with gnus a long time ago, but now I am a dedicated Gnews user... (sound like a commercial) and I must say that it is the "fastest" tool you can find to read news (I do not mean fast in term of code, but in term of how long time you spend to read news everyday). The index mode is really powerful, especially if you play with the hook stuff. In index mode, most of the heavy newsgroups such as comp.sys.mac or or comp.sys.sun are read in a couple of minutes, and it is fully customizable... If you want some example of customization, check the Info doc or send me a mail. Give it a try... You will be impressed. PS: I must confess that I have not tried gnus lately... so maybe the last gnus version are providing some new interesting stuff.
shadow@pawl.rpi.edu (Deven T. Corzine) (10/02/89)
On 30 Sep 89 22:56:28 GMT, felix@AI.SRI.COM (Francois Felix INGRAND) said: felix> I started with gnus a long time ago, but now I am a dedicated felix> Gnews user... (sound like a commercial) and I must say that it felix> is the "fastest" tool you can find to read news (I do not mean felix> fast in term of code, but in term of how long time you spend to felix> read news everyday). This is interesting; most testimony I've seen tends towards the other direction. That is, Gnews users who try GNUS and find it much faster and more convenient, and switch. I can't offer an opinion, as I have never used Gnews. But I do like GNUS. As far as the "fastest" newsreader, that award probably belongs to nn. It flys through newsreading, but it's only optimized for a particular style of reading news. I find it doesn't much appeal to me, although it does have some strong points. Deven -- Deven T. Corzine Internet: deven@rpi.edu, shadow@pawl.rpi.edu Snail: 2151 12th St. Apt. 4, Troy, NY 12180 Phone: (---) --none-- Bitnet: deven@rpitsmts, userfxb6@rpitsmts UUCP: uunet!rpi!deven Simple things should be simple and complex things should be possible.
msb@ho5cad.att.com (Mike Balenger) (10/02/89)
In article <SHADOW.89Oct1221126@pawl.rpi.edu> shadow@pawl.rpi.edu (Deven T. Corzine) writes: > On 30 Sep 89 22:56:28 GMT, > felix@AI.SRI.COM (Francois Felix INGRAND) said: > felix> I started with gnus a long time ago, but now I am a dedicated > felix> Gnews user... (sound like a commercial) and I must say that it > felix> is the "fastest" tool you can find to read news (I do not mean > felix> fast in term of code, but in term of how long time you spend to > felix> read news everyday). > This is interesting; most testimony I've seen tends towards the other > direction. I'll second that. I used Gnews for about a year. I've been using gnus for about 5 months. Although gnus is SLOWER fetching a particular article, I can read news lots FASTER with gnus. The summary allows me to prune unwanted articles without previewing them. It's easier to learn, more powerful, more intuitive, more customizable, uses STANDARD .newsrc format, runs right out of the box. In short, it's more fit for use -- it's just lot's better. Oh, gnus is constantly being enhanced. Last I heard, Gnews had not been worked on in a year. No big deal if you like one or the other as it curently stands, though. BOTH products are better than any stand alone news reader. There's lots to be said for having your editor and mailer handy while you read news. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- <cute quote> Michael S. Balenger (201) 949-8789 <cute disclaimer> AT&T Bell Labs Room 1L-405 msb@ho5cad.att.com Crawfords Corner Road att!ho5cad!msb Holmdel, NJ 07733
felix@AI.SRI.COM (Francois Felix INGRAND) (10/03/89)
In article <MSB.89Oct2095104@ho5cad.att.com>, msb@ho5cad (Mike Balenger) writes: >In article <SHADOW.89Oct1221126@pawl.rpi.edu> shadow@pawl.rpi.edu (Deven T. Corzine) writes: >> On 30 Sep 89 22:56:28 GMT, >> felix@AI.SRI.COM (Francois Felix INGRAND) said: > >> felix> I started with gnus a long time ago, but now I am a dedicated >> felix> Gnews user... (sound like a commercial) and I must say that it >> felix> is the "fastest" tool you can find to read news (I do not mean >> felix> fast in term of code, but in term of how long time you spend to >> felix> read news everyday). > >> This is interesting; most testimony I've seen tends towards the other >> direction. > >I'll second that. I used Gnews for about a year. I've been using >gnus for about 5 months. Although gnus is SLOWER fetching a >particular article, I can read news lots FASTER with gnus. The >summary allows me to prune unwanted articles without previewing them. >It's easier to learn, more powerful, more intuitive, more >customizable, uses STANDARD .newsrc format, runs right out of the box. >In short, it's more fit for use -- it's just lot's better. I must say that I disagree with some of your comments above, but most of them are subjective anyway... so I am not going to argue, it is obviously a question of taste. In general, I will say that everybody has his own style to read news. I like to be able to: - setup my own format line in index mode depending of the newsgroup, - be in index-mode automatically for some newsgroups not others, - index only if there are more than *variable* article, - use abbrev for newsgroup name, - have some index sorted on subject or date or not at all, - play with the most complex signature mechanism designed by a human brain... - switch in digest mode automatically (by newsgroup or article), - etc The last time I tried gnus, it was not providing these features. That's all. >Oh, gnus is constantly being enhanced. Last I heard, Gnews had not >been worked on in a year. No big deal if you like one or the other as >it curently stands, though. The last I have heard about Gnews is that Matthew Wiener (sp?) is working on a new version... Anyway, it is no big deal indeed... If you like it, keep it. If you don't, try another one. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Francois Felix INGRAND SRI International, AIC felix@AI.SRI.COM 333, Ravenswood Avenue felix%AI.SRI.COM@UUNET.UU.NET MENLO PARK, CA 94025, USA "Pourquoi tant de haine..." (Edika) "Read my Lisp... No new syntax" (nil)
cks@white.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann) (10/04/89)
msb@ho5cad.ATT.COM (Mike Balenger) writes: | BOTH products are better than any stand alone news reader. There's | lots to be said for having your editor and mailer handy while you read | news. Depending on what's meant by "handy", one doesn't necessarily have to run an Emacs-based newsreading tool to achieve this; the combination of IPC and some form of windowing let you do this fairly easily (for example, I'm writing this reply using GNU Emacs and MH, spawned off from an rn in another X11 window). -- "I shall clasp my hands together and bow to the corners of the world." Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds" Chris Siebenmann ...!utgpu!{ncrcan,ontmoh!moore}!ziebmef!cks cks@white.toronto.edu or ...!utgpu!{,csri!}cks
flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) (10/04/89)
Francois Felix INGRAND <felix@AI.SRI.COM> wants to: > - setup my own format line in index mode depending of the newsgroup, > - be in index-mode automatically for some newsgroups not others, > - index only if there are more than *variable* article, > - have some index sorted on subject or date or not at all, > - switch in digest mode automatically (by newsgroup or article), All this is doable with GNUS hooks, if you're willing to write a little elisp code. This may be more trouble than you wish to take. GNUS could use more examples of interesting hooks.. -- Felix Lee flee@shire.cs.psu.edu *!psuvax1!flee
kjones@talos.uucp (Kyle Jones) (10/04/89)
Francois Felix INGRAND <felix@AI.SRI.COM> wants to: > - setup my own format line in index mode depending of the newsgroup, > - be in index-mode automatically for some newsgroups not others, > - index only if there are more than *variable* article, > - have some index sorted on subject or date or not at all, > - switch in digest mode automatically (by newsgroup or article), flee@shire.cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes: > All this is doable with GNUS hooks, if you're willing to write a > little elisp code. This may be more trouble than you wish to take. > GNUS could use more examples of interesting hooks.. Different philosophies, I guess. I personally do not want to program a newsreader. I'd much rather see carefully thought out general purpose features, controllable by variable settings than lots of hooks. Variables have the advantage that the user can modify them with `M-x edit-options', without knowing much about Lisp syntax.