eholmberg@kontu.utu.fi (01/15/90)
In article <s26yc6w160w@darkside.com>, alex@darkside.com (Alexander of Atlantis) writes: > Have I missed anything? I think you have. > we need to exlude you from certain 18-over, 21-over, 30-over sections. Actually, you do not need to know the birthdays for that. All you really *need* to know is, whether the user really is over 18, 21 or 30.. > may seem "Confidential" will be held in that regard. Please remember, that asking one's birthday is also illegal in some countries. Sysops should therefore be careful while asking information. In Finland, asking one's birthday is somewhere between legal and illegal, but asking one's social security number can be considered as a violation against privacy. At least the law does give us free choice if we want to give the information or not. Still, some BBSes *require* giving the social security number. If the sysops get comments about that, they commonly throw the user out.. > ...Alex@darkside.com > "All too verbose, I'm assured." -- E. K. Holmberg, Co-Sysop of SAS-(M)BBS (+358-21-518-994,24h,V.32ECM) Also known as eholmberg@kontu.utu.fi holmberg_esa_tt@tt.elisa.fi and t6t-holm@mammutti.utu.fi
macman@wpi.wpi.edu (Christopher Silverberg) (01/17/90)
In article <33661.25b18c71@kontu.utu.fi> eholmberg@kontu.utu.fi writes: >> we need to exlude you from certain 18-over, 21-over, 30-over sections. > >Actually, you do not need to know the birthdays for that. All you really >*need* to know is, whether the user really is over 18, 21 or 30.. > >Please remember, that asking one's birthday is also illegal in >some countries. Sysops should therefore be careful while asking >information. In Finland, asking one's birthday is somewhere >between legal and illegal, but asking one's social security number >can be considered as a violation against privacy. At least the >law does give us free choice if we want to give the information >or not. Still, some BBSes *require* giving the social security >number. If the sysops get comments about that, they commonly >throw the user out.. If the sysop is using a good piece of software, then he'll be able to set up areas of a bbs accessible only to certain age groups. The program will check the birthdate, and then allow/disallow access after comparing to the current date. This makes the sysop's job easier since he wont have to go through his user log every year and update 200 or however many users for their age. Birthdates is an option much easier, cleaner, and accurate than simply asking for an age. It is absurd that someone would object to giving his birthdate and not object to the age question... if the user doesn't like it, well, that's one less bbs he'll be able to use i guess... while the rest of us enjoy the benefits. It much be pretty boring having your personal life locked up where noone can see it... As far as this privacy thing goes, i dont know about all the users, but I am in the USA... where people have inherent rights? One of these rights is free speech and the right to ask simple questions. A BBS is not a right... it is a privledge... an extra bonus... therefore, if a sysop wants to discriminate on the basis of age, (or if the sysop just wants to ask a simple question), he damn well has the right. And i think these rights are honored in most countries around the world. (If Sweden is an exception, then we'll just have to be glad we dont live in that oppressive society) -- ============================================================================== (.) (.) | Chris Silverberg, WPI Box 719 | BBS Sysop: Main Street U.S.A u | USENET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu | 2400 baud - (508) 832-7725 \___/ | BITNET: macman@wpi.bitnet | Fido: 322/575 - Second Sight BBS
akcs.repairman@tronsbox.UUCP (alan berger) (01/17/90)
I've logged into "adult access" systems and the operator has asked me for my DMV number. In NJ, the last set of numbers are in fact your month and year of birth. Pretty tricky if you ask me.
gl8f@astsun9.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) (01/17/90)
In article <6851@wpi.wpi.edu> macman@wpi.wpi.edu (Christopher Silverberg) writes: >If the sysop is using a good piece of software, then he'll be able to >set up areas of a bbs accessible only to certain age groups. The program >will check the birthdate, and then allow/disallow access after comparing >to the current date. Very few of the BBSes in question have such areas... and of those that do, most of them simply have an over-18 areas. So if you have only an over-18 area, it's not that big of a deal for users who have turned 18 leave a message for the sysop asking to be allowed in. This provides no legal protection for the sysop, by the way, against a minor who lies. You ought to collect a notarized piece of paper or something to get some shred of legal protection anyway. I still don't give out my age. >It is absurd that someone would object to giving his birthdate and not object >to the age question... I'm also absurd, it seems. Have you ever considered that other people can be reasonable and disagree with you? > if the user doesn't like it, well, that's one less > bbs he'll be able to use i guess... while the rest of us enjoy the benefits. >It much be pretty boring having your personal life locked up where noone can >see it... So those who disagree have their personal lives locked up? No, I don't like being required to give needless information. By the way, I am 24 and my birthday is April 20. I still won't give this information when I register on a BBS. Nor will I give other needless information such as my social security number or driver's license. >As far as this privacy thing goes, i dont know about all the users, but >I am in the USA... where people have inherent rights? One of these rights is >free speech and the right to ask simple questions. Sure, you have the right to ask me my social security number. And I have the right to not answer. It's not a question of what the rights are, we're talking about what's "reasonable". Most people in the US just want to be reasonable. I gladly tell my birthday to my friends. Perhaps we define "friend" in a different fashion. Oh, you made another posting about a store which uses a driver's license to check personal checks. If that store required a SSN to write a check, I could sue and win. If the store only accepted checks from people over 30, I could sue and win. Retail activities are entirely different from hobby activities such as a BBS. Greg Lindahl gl8f@virginia.edu Astrophysicists for Choice.
tachyon@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (tane' tachyon) (01/17/90)
In article <6851@wpi.wpi.edu> macman@wpi.wpi.edu (Christopher Silverberg) writes: >It is absurd that someone would object to giving his birthdate and not object >to the age question... if the user doesn't like it, well, that's one less >bbs he'll be able to use i guess... while the rest of us enjoy the benefits. Hey, I know some people who don't tell anyone their birthdays because they don't like people making a fuss over them. How people run their lives is their own business.
macman@wpi.wpi.edu (Christopher Silverberg) (01/18/90)
GL> Sure, you have the right to ask me my social security number.
GL> And I have the right to not answer.
Agreed... i dont think that point was ever argued.
GL> It's not a question of what the rights are, we're talking about
GL> what's "reasonable". Most people in the US just want to be
GL> reasonable. I gladly tell my birthday to my friends. Perhaps we
GL> define "friend" in a different fashion.
Agreed also... i never said that asking for the birthdate was reasonable.
That is a personal opinion... in the origional message, i was responding to
the claim that it was illegal to do such.
GL> Oh, you made another posting about a store which uses a driver's
GL> license to check personal checks. If that store required a SSN to
GL> write a check, I could sue and win. If the store only accepted
GL> checks from people over 30, I could sue and win. Retail activities
GL> are entirely different from hobby activities such as a BBS.
But i never said that the store required the SSN... it requires the licence
number AND the birthdate... but there is not restriction against age.
And i guess you're right in that retail activities are a bit different than
BBS's... a retail store is open to the public and under their business
licence, they can't discriminate against their customers. Yet a BBS is under
no such licence, and can freely discriminate on basis of age, sex, haircolor,
or shoe size :-)
--
==============================================================================
(.) (.) | Chris Silverberg, WPI Box 719 | BBS Sysop: Main Street U.S.A
u | USENET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu | 2400 baud - (508) 832-7725
\___/ | BITNET: macman@wpi.bitnet | Fido: 322/575 - Second Sight BBSeholmberg@kontu.utu.fi (01/18/90)
In article <6851@wpi.wpi.edu>, macman@wpi.wpi.edu (Christopher Silverberg) writes: > free speech and the right to ask simple questions. A BBS is not a right... I don't know about Sweden, because I don't live there. People have rights to ask questions, that's true. However, we have the right not to answer certain questions, don't we? :-) I'd like to make difference between asking one's birthday and asking one's social security number. Birthday isn't so intimate as soc.sec. number, and I will tell my birthday to get access to a BBS, if the sysop requires it. But I will NEVER tell my soc.sec. number for such reason. Requiring it can be considered illegal. > -- > ============================================================================== > (.) (.) | Chris Silverberg, WPI Box 719 | BBS Sysop: Main Street U.S.A > u | USENET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu | 2400 baud - (508) 832-7725 > \___/ | BITNET: macman@wpi.bitnet | Fido: 322/575 - Second Sight BBS -- E. K. Holmberg, Co-Sysop of SAS-(M)BBS (+358-21-518-994,24h,V.32ECM) Also known as eholmberg@kontu.utu.fi holmberg_esa_tt@tt.elisa.fi and t6t-holm@mammutti.utu.fi
keeper@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Ron O'Dell) (01/18/90)
In article <1061@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us> tachyon@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (tane' tachyon) writes: >In article <6851@wpi.wpi.edu> macman@wpi.wpi.edu (Christopher Silverberg) writes: >>It is absurd that someone would object to giving his birthdate and not object >>to the age question... if the user doesn't like it, well, that's one less >>bbs he'll be able to use i guess... while the rest of us enjoy the benefits. > >Hey, I know some people who don't tell anyone their birthdays because >they don't like people making a fuss over them. How people run >their lives is their own business. > You, on the other hand, are sneaky... You have the Birthdays section where people can post their birthday in they want to, thinking that there won't be much of a fuss... ...then... Everyone who logs in on that day is informed of this person's birthday!
heiser@sud509.ed.RAY.COM ( Sun Workstation Support) (01/19/90)
In article <1990Jan17.035305.29494@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gl8f@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) writes: >And I have the right to not answer. > > >license to check personal checks. If that store required a SSN to >write a check, I could sue and win. If the store only accepted checks >Greg Lindahl >gl8f@virginia.edu Astrophysicists for Choice. Out of curiosity, what would you be able to "win?" -- Bill Heiser | Work: heiser@tdw201.ed.ray.com | {decuac,necntc,uunet}!rayssd!tdw201!heiser | Home: Bill.Heiser@f240.n322.z1.fidonet.org (Fidonet 1:322/240) | The Think_Tank BBS (508) 655-3848 | Other: 75106.2332@compuserve.com
tachyon@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (tane' tachyon) (01/19/90)
In article <1066@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us> keeper@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Ron O'Dell) writes: >You, on the other hand, are sneaky... > >You have the Birthdays section where people can post their birthday in they >want to, thinking that there won't be much of a fuss... > >...then... > >Everyone who logs in on that day is informed of this person's birthday! > (Yeah, I KNOW I should answer this in mail instead of chatting up the newsgroup, but ...) No, I don't think that is sneaky. For one thing, by the time they have found the birthdays section, most users have probably seen that birthdays get announced. Very few people post them there anyway -- I get more birthdays by people sending them to me in mail asking that they be announced.