wnp@iiasa.AT (wolf paul) (08/24/90)
We are trying to install MS Windows 3.0 on one of our 386 machines
running DOS 4.01 and PC/NFS.
The "Networks" selection in the Windows Setup program does not list
PC/NFS; is there some way to install it anyway?
Thanks for any help anyone can provide!
--
Wolf N. Paul, IIASA, A - 2361 Laxenburg, Austria, Europe
PHONE: +43-2236-71521-465 FAX: +43-2236-71313 UUCP: uunet!iiasa.at!wnp
INTERNET: wnp%iiasa.at@uunet.uu.net BITNET: tuvie!iiasa!wnp@awiuni01.BITNET
* * * * Kurt Waldheim for President (of Mars, of course!) * * * *ABishop@massey.ac.nz (A.G. Bishop) (08/27/90)
If you can find ANYTHING in the way of mainstream PC software that is aware of PC-NFS I'd love to hear about it! Please. -- Tony Bishop Computer Centre A.G.Bishop@massey.ac.nz Massey University Palmerston North, N.Z.
wnp@iiasa.AT (wolf paul) (08/27/90)
In article <926@massey.ac.nz> ABishop@massey.ac.nz (A.G. Bishop) writes: >If you can find ANYTHING in the way of mainstream PC software that is >aware of PC-NFS I'd love to hear about it! > >Please. Well, not all software needs to be aware of it, just to tolerate it. MKS toolkit is sufficiently aware to use the PC-NFS hostname as its nodename (output by uname); things like WP5.1 and Lotus 123 seem to work just fine on our PC-NFS network. The problem with Windows 3.0 is that it insists on knowing about your network, and doesn't seem to know about PC-NFS. -- Wolf N. Paul, IIASA, A - 2361 Laxenburg, Austria, Europe PHONE: +43-2236-71521-465 FAX: +43-2236-71313 UUCP: uunet!iiasa.at!wnp INTERNET: wnp%iiasa.at@uunet.uu.net BITNET: tuvie!iiasa!wnp@awiuni01.BITNET * * * * Kurt Waldheim for President (of Mars, of course!) * * * *
prk@planet.bt.co.uk (Peter Knight) (08/28/90)
wnp@iiasa.AT (wolf paul) writes: >We are trying to install MS Windows 3.0 on one of our 386 machines >running DOS 4.01 and PC/NFS. >The "Networks" selection in the Windows Setup program does not list >PC/NFS; is there some way to install it anyway? >Thanks for any help anyone can provide! >-- >Wolf N. Paul, IIASA, A - 2361 Laxenburg, Austria, Europe >PHONE: +43-2236-71521-465 FAX: +43-2236-71313 UUCP: uunet!iiasa.at!wnp >INTERNET: wnp%iiasa.at@uunet.uu.net BITNET: tuvie!iiasa!wnp@awiuni01.BITNET > * * * * Kurt Waldheim for President (of Mars, of course!) * * * * I run a similar set-up, except that I (still) use MS-DOS 3.21, (if it isn't broke, why fix it?). No, I cannot get Windows to cope with the PC-NFS networking software. Peter Knight BT Research Opinions stated here are those of the author, etc, etc.
po@technet.uucp (Peter Onno) (08/28/90)
In <926@massey.ac.nz> ABishop@massey.ac.nz (A.G. Bishop) writes: >If you can find ANYTHING in the way of mainstream PC software that is >aware of PC-NFS I'd love to hear about it! We have limited experience running off an HP 9000/375 with FTP Software, Inc. PC/TCP Plus Interdrive. One nice thing about this arrangement is that you can load the kernel and the ID TSR with WINSTART.BAT for Windows 3.0 in enhanced mode and thus preserve base memory for the greedy applications. Disadvantage: network drives are only visible to Windows applications. If more general access is required, you're stuck with losing some base memory until the enhanced-version memory managers come along. No endorsement by my company is intended; this is a personal impression. Peter Onno (po@technet.uunet) M/A-COM, Inc. 5 Omni Way Chelmsford MA 01824 Tel: 617-272-3000 X7361
steve@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Steve Mitchell) (08/30/90)
We're also trying to run Windows 3.0 on an AT/386. The PC has only NFS-networked disks, file served off a Sun 3/60 by Beame & Whiteside's NFS running on top of Excelan's LAN Workplace for DOS. We load the network software into real memory, and things seem to work -- at least for a while. But eventually when an application (even Notepad) goes looking for a file, or tries to save a file, Windows gets lost in space: the little hourglass icon comes up, and stays there as long as anyone is willing to wait. Alternatively, a message box comes up announcing a System Error: Attempting to write to Drive A with Retry and Cancel buttons. Of course, there is no activity on drive A when this happens, and if you're lucky hitting the cancel button crashes Windows. If you're unlucky, hitting either button does nothing, and you have to reboot the machine. In either case, Windows is corrupted and we have to reinstall it from floppies. Anybody have an idea of what is happening here, and what we can do about it? -- - Steve Mitchell steve@cps.altadena.ca.us grian!steve@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov ames!elroy!grian!steve "God is licht, an in him there is nae mirkness ava." -- 1 John 1:5
beame@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Carl Beame) (08/30/90)
In article <1990Aug30.001504.21331@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us> steve@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Steve Mitchell) writes: > >We're also trying to run Windows 3.0 on an AT/386. The PC has only >NFS-networked disks, file served off a Sun 3/60 by Beame & Whiteside's >NFS running on top of Excelan's LAN Workplace for DOS. We load the >network software into real memory, and things seem to work -- at least >for a while. But eventually when an application (even Notepad) goes >looking for a file, or tries to save a file, Windows gets lost in >space: the little hourglass icon comes up, and stays there as long as >anyone is willing to wait. Alternatively, a message box comes up >announcing a System Error: Attempting to write to Drive A with Retry >and Cancel buttons. Of course, there is no activity on drive A when >this happens, and if you're lucky hitting the cancel button crashes >Windows. If you're unlucky, hitting either button does nothing, and >you have to reboot the machine. In either case, Windows is corrupted >and we have to reinstall it from floppies. > >Anybody have an idea of what is happening here, and what we can do >about it? >-- > - Steve Mitchell steve@cps.altadena.ca.us > grian!steve@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov > ames!elroy!grian!steve >"God is licht, an in him there is nae mirkness ava." -- 1 John 1:5 There are several generic "fixes" which need to be looked at when running any network under windows. 1) Many ethernet adaptors use shared memory. This memory MUST be listed in the EMMexclude line in system.ini. (The Excelan card uses shared memory). 2) When running windows in protected mode, hardware interrupts to real code are delayed and the PC is not as fast in removing packets from the adaptors. With BWNFS, it is sometimes required to reduce the read size when running Windows 3.0 to 2048 from 4096 (or 8192 for the Excelan Card). 3) This is not generic, but you should be running BWNFS V2.10 for windows support. Set the network to 100 % MS-NET compatible. - Carl Beame Beame & Whiteside Software Ltd. (416) 648-6556 Beame@McMaster.CA
milne@ics.uci.edu (Alastair Milne) (08/31/90)
In <852@iiasa.UUCP> wnp@iiasa.AT (wolf paul) writes: >We are trying to install MS Windows 3.0 on one of our 386 machines >running DOS 4.01 and PC/NFS. >The "Networks" selection in the Windows Setup program does not list >PC/NFS; is there some way to install it anyway? What DOS 4.01 may or may not do is outside my knowledge. I am sticking with 3.3 until I'm sure DOS 4 doesn't add more bugs than it fixes. But I have Windows 3 running on a PS/2 model 80 with PC-NFS 3.0.1. I didn't bother actually telling it about the network, I just let PC-NFS install at boot-up as usual, then run Window on top of it. If you look at the system setup, it will say there's no network. But then run File Manager, and sure enough, your remote drives not only appear but are marked with the NET drive icon. And they are fully usable -- or at least, I've encountered no restriction so far. I should note that I'm running with a WD8003E/A ethernet card, with the NFS-NDIS driver and the 3+Open LAN Manager, rather than WD8003E.SYS. It's a thing a like a lot about PC-NFS: it integrates well enough into DOS's file system that programs never need to realise they are using a net drive. What does irritate me a lot is that when File Manager starts up, it issues an alert for every drive between the last mounted net drive, and the last drive letter available. I tried reducing LASTDRIVE, but it didn't change anything, so I don't know where Windows 3 is getting its information. However, previous postings about telnet and ftp I found to be quite correct: they are *very* sensitive under Windows 3. I tried them from DOS prompt, where they should be running in their own virtual machines, but I don't recall whether that made them reliable. Besides, why would I want to run a file transer program in a specially run environment which *prevents* me from seeing any of my directory windows (i.e. DOS Prompt)? A Window 3 front end for ftp is required, I think. Alastair Milne
milne@ics.uci.edu (Alastair Milne) (08/31/90)
In <26DC8A1E.18344@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> beame@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Carl Beame) writes: > 1) Many ethernet adaptors use shared memory. This memory MUST be > listed in the EMMexclude line in system.ini. (The Excelan card > uses shared memory). Oops! Re my last posting, this raises a good point. Yes, I have indicated in my CONFIG.SYS memory areas that must be left alone for the WD8003E/A adapter to work. In other situations, I've found that permitting this area to be overwritten is one of the surest ways of causing bizarre crashes of all descriptions. And I don't bother with EMS under windows, or anywhere else for that matter. An incredible nuisance to configure, and it seldom solves the problems I wanted it for anyway. > 2) When running windows in protected mode, hardware interrupts to > real code are delayed and the PC is not as fast in removing > packets from the adaptors. With BWNFS, it is sometimes required > to reduce the read size when running Windows 3.0 to 2048 from > 4096 (or 8192 for the Excelan Card). Another good point. How do the various ethernet cards compare for memory-communications speed? The WD card double-ports a region of memory, making its access very fast. What about Excelan, or Ungermann-Bass, or 3Com? If they're using CPU ports, they we have a different story. I have no benchmarks for PC-NFS file access with or without Windows 3, but my impression is that Windows slows everything down anyway. Frankly, a number of aspects of Window 3 make me appreciate the Mac's Multifinder all the more! It seems much smoother and easier to handle. (But I'm willing to keep trying, especially if it will gain me the use of physical memory I have on the 80.) Alastair Milne
geoff@hinode.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top) (08/31/90)
If you wish to use Windows 3.0 and PC-NFS, I recommend that you run DOS 3.x. There is at least one place in Windows where the system issues a different sequence of DOS calls for the two versions, and the DOS 4.x sequence relies upon an undocumented side-effect which the PC-NFS redirector doesn't (yet) emulate correctly. (And yes, I have told Microsoft, and they were apologetic, but....) Obviously we'll fix this, but for now DOS 3.x is the best bet. As for the extra drives, the stuff about using the "/dNN" switch has been hacked to death in these groups. Geoff -- Geoff Arnold, PC-NFS architect, Sun Microsystems. (geoff@East.Sun.COM) -- *** "Now is no time to speculate or hypothecate, but rather a time *** *** for action, or at least not a time to rule it out, though not *** *** necessarily a time to rule it in, either." - George Bush ***
leoh@hardy.hdw.csd.harris.com (Leo Hinds) (09/01/90)
In article <26DE184C.28496@ics.uci.edu> milne@ics.uci.edu (Alastair Milne) writes: > <text deleted> > But then run File Manager, and sure enough, your remote drives not > only appear but are marked with the NET drive icon. And they are > fully usable -- or at least, I've encountered no restriction so far. Though this is true under FM, whenever I try and use the setup/add new applications it does not seem to know about ALL my nfs drives ... just the first one (E). The next nfs drive (F) is ignored, as well as G, H, & P. leoh@hdw.csd.harris.com Leo Hinds (305)973-5229 Gfx ... gfx ... :-) whfg orpnhfr V "ebg"grq zl fvtangher svyr lbh guvax V nz n creireg ?!!!!!!? ... znlor arkg gvzr
pilger@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Eric Pilger) (09/03/90)
In article <852@iiasa.UUCP> wnp@iiasa.UUCP (wolf paul) writes: >The "Networks" selection in the Windows Setup program does not list >PC/NFS; is there some way to install it anyway? > Don't install it for a network. It will work anyway. You can even follow the instructions for making it available over a network. You'll have to use lpt#.os2 for printing to work. You may also want to pare down the number of excess drives with "/d#" as a switch to pcnfs.sys (# is something like 6, for 6 additional virtual drives.) (I believe the "/d" is right, I don't have my configuration right here.) Eric Pilger NASA Infrared Telescope Facility
pilger@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Eric Pilger) (09/03/90)
In article <926@massey.ac.nz> ABishop@massey.ac.nz (A.G. Bishop) writes: >If you can find ANYTHING in the way of mainstream PC software that is >aware of PC-NFS I'd love to hear about it! I successfully installed Paradox as "other network." It doesn't know about PC-NFS specifically, but it does know about DOS networking. PC-NFS appears to do a proper job of supporting DOS networking because everything SEEMS to work just fine. I haven't tested it rigorously, but the basic support is obviously there (record locking, even the name of who did the locking.) If PC-NFS is doing a proper job of supporting DOS networking, then my guess is that any mainstream PC software that is aware of DOS networking will be indirectly aware of PC-NFS. Eric Pilger NASA Infrared Telescope Facility