guest@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Guest) (08/07/90)
The Amiga is a VERY nice machine. It's capabilities with graphics and sound allow the machine great versitility and user-friendliness in a UNIX-style environment. Why are there no notes about this very very very good machine?
jonb@specialix.co.uk (Jon Brawn) (08/07/90)
guest@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Guest) writes: > Why are there no notes about this very very very >good machine? Maybe no-one has any gripes about it, and are too busy using it. -- Jon Brawn, Specialix, 3 Wintersells Road, Byfleet, Surrey, KT14 7LF, UK. Tel: +44(0)9323-54254, Fax:+44(0)9323-52781, jonb@specialix.co.uk or: {backbone}!mcsun!ukc!slxsys!jonb ``Once upon a time, not so very long ago, in a land, not so very far away''
lshaw@walt.cc.utexas.edu (logan shaw) (08/07/90)
In article <20260001@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> guest@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Guest) writes: >The Amiga is a VERY nice machine. It's capabilities with graphics and >sound allow the machine great versitility and user-friendliness in a >UNIX-style environment. Why are there no notes about this very very very >good machine? There are. Try these newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga comp.sys.amiga.tech comp.sys.amiga.hardware comp.sys.amiga.games comp.sources.amiga comp.binaries.amiga All of these together average about 150 posts a day in the summer and some absurdly obnoxious way-out ridiculous figure of about probably 700 in one day during the rest of the year (when all the college students are using their accounts). I have seen upwards of 300 postings in one day in just comp.sys.amiga. Here are the reasons you don't see any postings _here_: (1) This newsgroups is for source code (not like what I'm posting). (2) There is already comp.sources.amiga. (3) Fred Fish does a wonderful job of distributing source code. I hope this eases your heavy Amiga blues. ============================================================================ "The machine minded material man Logan Shaw desperately dreams of a brand new sedan. lshaw@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Wlll he expect long lasting gain ======================== from a toy that will race then rust in the rain?" - elim Hall, Things Break
guest@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Guest) (08/07/90)
Ok. Ok....so I am looking in the wrong place!
alanh@hpsmeng1.HP.COM (Alan Haight) (08/07/90)
Ahhh, but their are many topics here on the AMIGA. Just try one of these area's : alt.sources.amiga aus.computers.amiga bit.listserv.i-amiga comp.binaries.amiga comp.sources.amiga comp.sys.amiga comp.sys.amiga.games comp.sys.amiga.hardware comp.sys.amiga.tech uw.sys.amiga ;-) Alan
klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) (08/08/90)
In article <20260001@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> guest@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Guest) writes: >The Amiga is a VERY nice machine. It's capabilities with graphics and >sound allow the machine great versitility and user-friendliness in a >UNIX-style environment. Why are there no notes about this very very very >good machine? Because IMHO, the people that make the Amiga lie through their teeth when it comes to supporting the hardware and living up to their claims of expandability. Especially, but probably not limited to, the A1000. I'm not real crazy about buying any more Amiga equipment so that I can be told things like: 1. We don't support that hardware any more. 2. We don't support that software any more. 3. Our software doesn't have to be forward compatible. 4. Our software doesn't have to be backward compatible. 5. You have to reboot in order to run our program. 6. Our hardware has to be the last on the expansion slot. 7. Normally, memory chips are $100/MB, but for you, an Amiga owner, its $700-800 to upgrade from 1MB to 2MB RAM. 8. Guru crashes are the fault of the Amiga, they are caused by vendors who don't write software the way Commodore wants. I love what the Amiga does. I hate what the Amiga does. -- -Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM As long as the systems are up, my employers don't care what I think "Obviously, I am dealing with inferior mentalities." - Daffy Duck
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (08/08/90)
In article <1037@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: >In article <20260001@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> guest@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Guest) writes: >>The Amiga is a VERY nice machine. It's capabilities with graphics and >>sound allow the machine great versitility and user-friendliness in a >>UNIX-style environment. Why are there no notes about this very very very >>good machine? >Because IMHO, the people that make the Amiga lie through their teeth when >it comes to supporting the hardware and living up to their claims of >expandability. What are you on, acid or something? Is the Amiga the only computer you've ever had experience with? Care to site just one case of where you have been lied to? >I'm not real crazy about buying any more Amiga equipment so that I can >be told things like: > 1. We don't support that hardware any more. Computers are eventually out of date. The A1000 is not made anymore, though you can still get most of the parts. Have you tried IBM for support on the original PC lately? How about Apple on the Apple I or the original Apple II? Tandy on the TRS-80 model 1? DEC on the PDP-8? Sun on the Sun-2? No computer lasts for ever. Still, the A1000 can be upgraded to do much of what an A2000 does by way of third party add-ons, especially an internal device called "the Rejuvenator", which gives the A1000 extra Chip memory, 512K ROMs, and a video slot. > 2. We don't support that software any more. > 3. Our software doesn't have to be forward compatible. > 4. Our software doesn't have to be backward compatible. > 5. You have to reboot in order to run our program. All software is required to be upward compatible. And it should exit gracefully if it requires hardware of software revisions not present. And it's illegal to take over the machine. All developers know these things. But Commodore-Amiga can no more force developers to do things than IBM or Microsoft can under MS-DOS or Apple can under MacOS. You'll the same story on any other platform -- good companies upgrade their software, especially if failures are due to their own programming mistakes or dirty tricks. Bad companies often don't upgrade their software. The Amiga's overall probably got more programs that survive OS upgrades than most systems. Ever notice how many MS-DOS 4.0 users keep copies of 3.3 or 2.x handy? Or how many different versions of Finder the typical Mac owner keeps around? This is a problem, and it's up to all of us to badmouth the companies that refuse to upgrade their software. > 6. Our hardware has to be the last on the expansion slot. That's completely illegal, and anyone claiming that will likely fail on the Amiga 3000's backplane and be forced to fix their mistakes rather than burden the user with them. And you do find this kind of thing on the ISA (PC/AT) bus as well. > 7. Normally, memory chips are $100/MB, but for you, an Amiga > owner, its $700-800 to upgrade from 1MB to 2MB RAM. Just like with any computer, once you're out of on-board memory, you need to add a memory board, not simply another chip. Zorro II memory boards for the 2000 can be had for under $300 for 2 Megs boards, under $800 for 8 meg boards, which in fact does happen to work out to $100/Meg. A1000 memory boards in their own case go for more like $400 for 2 megs. > 8. Guru crashes are the fault of the Amiga, they are caused by > vendors who don't write software the way Commodore wants. Or, for that matter, the way Motorola requires it to be written to function on the 68000. The vast majority of GURUs are the result of sloppy programming. The Amiga is better at identifying software failures than the PC/MS-DOS or the Mac, since programs run in User mode while the Exec runs in Supervisor mode (eg, the way Motorola intended it to be). So the Amiga tells you of a failure, where the Mac or PC might simply freeze up. >-Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Get that coffee outta my face, put a Margarita in its place!
jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) (08/08/90)
In article <20260001@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> guest@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Guest) writes: >The Amiga is a VERY nice machine. It's capabilities with graphics and >sound allow the machine great versitility and user-friendliness in a >UNIX-style environment. Why are there no notes about this very very very >good machine? There are many "notes" (aka net-news articles) on the Amiga. You're looking at the wrong newsgroup. For instance, on my Unix system, the "news" program reports the following: newsgroup highest article number unexpired articles ------------------- ---------------------- ------------------ alt.sources.amiga 00023 1 comp.binaries.amiga 00753 123 comp.sources.amiga 00617 61 comp.sys.amiga 28919 7221 comp.sys.amiga.games 00743 91 comp.sys.amiga.hardware 02860 1472 comp.sys.amiga.tech 08519 2253 So, tell the "notes" program that you want to read the comp.sys.amiga newsgroup and you will be inundated with articles. This newsgroup (alt.sources.amiga) is the "other" newsgroup for posting the sources to programs that run on the Amiga. -- Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: jms@tardis.tymnet.com or jms@gemini.tymnet.com BT Tymnet Tech Services | UUCP: ...!{ames,pyramid}!oliveb!tymix!tardis!jms PO Box 49019, MS-C41 | BIX: smithjoe | 12 PDP-10s still running! "POPJ P," San Jose, CA 95161-9019 | humorous dislaimer: "My Amiga speaks for me."
klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) (08/09/90)
In article <13697@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax (Dave Haynie) writes: >In article <1037@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: > >>Because IMHO, the people that make the Amiga lie through their teeth when >>it comes to supporting the hardware and living up to their claims of >>expandability. > >What are you on, acid or something? Is the Amiga the only computer you've >ever had experience with? Care to site just one case of where you have been >lied to? Uh, no, I don't drink cola. No, the amiga isn't the only computer, in fact I have run more different kinds of systems than I can even remember, but that's not the point. I say they lie because they make promises that never come true....at least, not without buying/upgrading another system. 1000 -> 2000 -> 3000 -> 4000. Basically, I was told the Amiga 1000 would be a true, expandable, multi-user system. The fact that the expansions do not work unless they are the last one on the bus, and I have to reboot to run most of the programs that really use graphics, means that they lied. More importantly, they tried to cover up the fact that they promised more than they could deliver and then tried to blame it on everyone but themselves. >>I'm not real crazy about buying any more Amiga equipment so that I can >>be told things like: >> 1. We don't support that hardware any more. > >Computers are eventually out of date. The A1000 is not made anymore, though >you can still get most of the parts. Have you tried IBM for support on the >original PC lately? How about Apple on the Apple I or the original Apple II? >Tandy on the TRS-80 model 1? DEC on the PDP-8? Sun on the Sun-2? No computer >lasts for ever. But I bought a product that SHOULD last more than 2 years. As soon as the 2000 came out, the support for the 1000 dropped like eagle full of rocks. My friends on their AT's still can buy equipment for them, and some people are STILL selling those things. Your point is not lost on me, but I had problems from the beginning. I have NEVER gotten FULL use of this GREAT machine due to fights between Commodore and its vendors and the and lack of hardware and lack of a large customer base like the IBM and Apple (which I don't use anyway, and just FYI, I am using a Sun2-50 to write this message, ;-), I also have UNIX running on a VAX 11-750, so why not? I mean, I'm still playing Rocket Ranger on my A1000, I just have to reboot the thing to play the game on a multi-tasking system. Don't seem right, somehow. >Still, the A1000 can be upgraded to do much of what an A2000 does by way of >third party add-ons, especially an internal device called "the Rejuvenator", >which gives the A1000 extra Chip memory, 512K ROMs, and a video slot. >All software is required to be upward compatible. And it should exit >gracefully if it requires hardware of software revisions not present. And >it's illegal to take over the machine. All developers know these things. But they do it anyway...and they all say its due to those requirements that it doesn't work. Some of them MUST be telling the truth. I have heard of the Rejuvenator, but not until I told myself I wouldn't buy any more hardware for a computer that has no support. I suppose I owe it to myself to investigate this possibility. >But Commodore-Amiga can no more force developers to do things than IBM >or Microsoft can under MS-DOS or Apple can under MacOS. You'll the same >story on any other platform -- good companies upgrade their software, >especially if failures are due to their own programming mistakes or dirty >tricks. Bad companies often don't upgrade their software. The Amiga's >overall probably got more programs that survive OS upgrades than most >systems. Ever notice how many MS-DOS 4.0 users keep copies of 3.3 or 2.x >handy? Or how many different versions of Finder the typical Mac owner >keeps around? This is a problem, and it's up to all of us to badmouth >the companies that refuse to upgrade their software. I do, I do. One of my favorite things to do in the world is point out bugs to software vendors....usually, it becomes real obvious who is good and who ain't by the way they handle the information. >> 6. Our hardware has to be the last on the expansion slot. > >That's completely illegal, and anyone claiming that will likely fail on >the Amiga 3000's backplane and be forced to fix their mistakes rather >than burden the user with them. And you do find this kind of thing on >the ISA (PC/AT) bus as well. But I have an A1000 that was DESIGNED to do this, and it don't work. Illegal or not, they still do it. Allegra for one, and they are the ones charging me an arm/leg for the extra memory and then saying it may or may not work. >> 7. Normally, memory chips are $100/MB, but for you, an Amiga >> owner, its $700-800 to upgrade from 1MB to 2MB RAM. > >Just like with any computer, once you're out of on-board memory, you >need to add a memory board, not simply another chip. Zorro II memory >boards for the 2000 can be had for under $300 for 2 Megs boards, under >$800 for 8 meg boards, which in fact does happen to work out to $100/Meg. >A1000 memory boards in their own case go for more like $400 for 2 megs. 8 meg for a Intel 386 machine is $700.00 RETAIL! I'm mad cause Allegra, (who owns the Amiga division I'm told?!?!?) wants to charge me over $400 for ONE LOUSY MEG. This ain't right, chillun. >> 8. Guru crashes are [NOT] (sic) the fault of the Amiga, they are >> caused by vendors who don't write software the way Commodore wants. > >So the Amiga tells you of a failure, where the >Mac or PC might simply freeze up. I'm used to UNIX, I'll take your word for this one. Don't get me wrong, I like the Amiga alot. But several years of frustration came out in my last message, and it had to come from somewhere over the Amiga rainbow. All I want is the graphics and sound of the Amiga combined with the speed, power and functionality of UNIX along with the expandibility of a mainframe on my desk at home. But I can't afford a Silicon Graphics machine. -- -Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM As long as the systems are up, my employers don't care what I think "Obviously, I am dealing with inferior mentalities." - Daffy Duck
stevef@bony1.uucp (Steve Faiwiszewski) (08/09/90)
Guys,
In case you haven't noticed, this is a SOURCES newsgroup.
Please STOP posting noise messages here. There are more appropriate
groups. Thanx (no flames please).
- Steve -
--
Disclaimer : My employer disavows any knowledge of my actions
===============================================================================
Internet: stevef@bony1.UUCP | Steve Faiwiszewski
bang : uunet!bony1!stevef | I wish I had something witty to say...hamilton@intersil.uucp (08/09/90)
In article <1045@flash.UUCP>, klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: > But I bought a product [an Amiga 1000] that SHOULD last more than 2 > years. As soon as > the 2000 came out, the support for the 1000 dropped like eagle full of > rocks. My friends on their AT's still can buy equipment for them, and some > people are STILL selling those things. That's interesting. I've got an Amiga 1000 with a 65M hardrive, a 68030 with 4M 32 bit fast ram, and I'm having an EXTREMELY hard time rationalizing the purchase of an Amiga 3000, which I really want to do because it's new, sexy, and does everything at least a little bit better than my 1000. But I haven't been able to do it. I can't think of anything that I use my Amiga for (DTP, WP, games, programming) that I can't do as well with my 1000. The extra display modes and de-interlacer would be nice, Zorro II and III slots would be nice, the additional speed would be nice, but overall I can't justify it. The last thing I feel is left out in the cold because I bought a 1000. > I mean, I'm still playing Rocket > Ranger on my A1000, I just have to reboot the thing to play the game > on a multi-tasking system. Don't seem right, somehow. So complain to Cinemaware. If a game crashes an Apple or IBM you don't whine about the platform, it's just lousy software. It's a good enough game it never bothered me too much that I had to spend an extra 30 seconds waiting for it to start. As a matter of fact, almost nothing you've mentioned has ever bothered me. -- Fred Hamilton Any views, comments, or ideas expressed here Harris Semiconductor are entirely my own. Even good ones. Santa Clara, CA
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) (08/10/90)
[Followups have been pointed to comp.sys.amiga.] In article <1045@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: In article <13697@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax (Dave Haynie) writes: But I bought a product that SHOULD last more than 2 years. As soon as the 2000 came out, the support for the 1000 dropped like eagle full of rocks. My friends on their AT's still can buy equipment for them, and some people are STILL selling those things. Yes, support for the 1000 vanished when the 2000 appeared. That steamed a lot of users (me among them). If CBM actually fails to ship 2.0 for the 1000, they're going to steam a lot more users. However, if you look in the right places, you can still buy hardware for the 1000 - good expansion boxes, memory cards, accelerators, etc. >All software is required to be upward compatible. And it should exit >gracefully if it requires hardware of software revisions not present. And >it's illegal to take over the machine. All developers know these things. But they do it anyway...and they all say its due to those requirements that it doesn't work. Some of them MUST be telling the truth. I've watched several times as developers have argued with each other over whether or not any piece of software _has_ to take over the machine and require a reboot. There are good reasons for doing that (usually related to performance). There are also ways to take complete control of the Amiga. They aren't pretty, but they do exist. However developers still just give up, and write software that doesn't follow those rules. There's only 1 good reason I've ever seen for that: "My software just barely fits in 512K now; if I do it the legal way, it won't run on the base-level machine anymore." In other words, the people involved aren't competent enough to make their program behave correctly in low-memory situations. They are telling the truth - if they follow the rules, it doesn't work. If they were competent, it would work. Check out things like "Their Finest Hour" to see that it can be done right. You can help with this problem by refusing to buy games that don't follow the rules. >> 6. Our hardware has to be the last on the expansion slot. > >That's completely illegal, and anyone claiming that will likely fail on >the Amiga 3000's backplane and be forced to fix their mistakes rather >than burden the user with them. And you do find this kind of thing on >the ISA (PC/AT) bus as well. But I have an A1000 that was DESIGNED to do this, and it don't work. No, the A1000 wasn't DESIGNED to do that. People making SOTS cards for the A1000 are breaking the rules. If you do it right, those problems tend to vanish. Right means buying a Zorro expansion box, and putting everything in it. Trouble is, the CBM Zorro I -> Zorro II change happened at about the same time as the A2000 introduction, killing most of the expansion boxes. There are still some to be had, though. >> 7. Normally, memory chips are $100/MB, but for you, an Amiga >> owner, its $700-800 to upgrade from 1MB to 2MB RAM. > >Just like with any computer, once you're out of on-board memory, you >need to add a memory board, not simply another chip. Zorro II memory >boards for the 2000 can be had for under $300 for 2 Megs boards, under >$800 for 8 meg boards, which in fact does happen to work out to $100/Meg. >A1000 memory boards in their own case go for more like $400 for 2 megs. 8 meg for a Intel 386 machine is $700.00 RETAIL! Considering the difference in the size of the markets, I'd say the Amiga was doing pretty good to get that close to the IBM market. But it's better than that. Retail prices for a bare 8meg board on the amiga is about $200. Prices after that is usually less than $100/meg. $50/meg is what Fry's charges for memory for the two Zorro memory boards I sold last month. That comes to 8 meg for $600 - at retail outlets. I'm mad cause Allegra, (who owns the Amiga division I'm told?!?!?) wants to charge me over $400 for ONE LOUSY MEG. This ain't right, chillun. If that's $300 for a SOTS card and $100 for a meg, that's a little high, but not outrageous. All I want is the graphics and sound of the Amiga combined with the speed, power and functionality of UNIX along with the expandibility of a mainframe on my desk at home. But I can't afford a Silicon Graphics machine. You're screwing yourself (with some help from CBM). You bought a machine with excellent expandability, then threw it away buying cheap expansion boxes. You buy a multitasking machine, then buy software that takes over the machine (I can point you to software for Unix boxes that acts the same way). These things are _not_ the fault of the machine or CBM. The only thing that you can blame on CBM is that quality expansion boxes were a long time coming, and that the price of the box is higher than it should be. <mike -- But I'll survive, no you won't catch me, Mike Meyer I'll resist the urge that is tempting me, mwm@relay.pa.dec.com I'll avert my eyes, keep you off my knee, decwrl!mwm But it feels so good when you talk to me.
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (08/10/90)
In article <1045@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: >In article <13697@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax (Dave Haynie) writes: >>What are you on, acid or something? Is the Amiga the only computer you've >>ever had experience with? Care to site just one case of where you have been >>lied to? >Uh, no, I don't drink cola. No, the amiga isn't the only computer, in >fact I have run more different kinds of systems than I can even >remember, but that's not the point. I say they lie because they make >promises that never come true....at least, not without buying/upgrading >another system. 1000 -> 2000 -> 3000 -> 4000. Basically, I was told the >Amiga 1000 would be a true, expandable, multi-user system. The Amiga 1000 is a true system. It is also expandable. It was never sold as a mult-user system, and to date, no Amigas are being sold as multi-user systems. The Amiga OS is by definition a single user multitasking OS and Commodore has never claimed anything to the contrary. >The fact that the expansions do not work unless they are the last one on the >bus, First of all, what expansion configuration do you have? Commodore supports two kinds of expansion mechanisms for the A1000 -- A **SINGLE** SOTS (Slap On The Side) box, or a Zorro II compatible card cage. Commodore does not endorse daisy-chained SOTS boxes, and has never produced any device with a passthrough connector. If you have a gripe with this kind of device, your gripe is with the company who made it, not Commodore or the Amiga itself. I asked you for details to support your claims, but you return nothing but nebulous ramblings. >and I have to reboot to run most of the programs that really use graphics, I've used roughly 30 programs that use graphics. Programs like Deluxe Paint, Professional Draw, Sculpt-Animate 4D, etc. The ONLY programs I have ever encountered that require reboot are a subset of the available video games on the market. These are doing things that Commodore tells their Developers not to do. Commodore can't force any non-Commodore agency to do anything. Your gripe, again, is not with the Amiga here. If you buy a game that claims to run under the operating system, and then actually requires you to reboot, you have indeed been lied to, but by that game's creator. Much the same as on other systems. >I mean, I'm still playing Rocket Ranger on my A1000, I just have to reboot >the thing to play the game on a multi-tasking system. Don't seem right, >somehow. It isn't right. There's nothing Commodore can do, really, to force authors to use the OS. But you are getting a little carried away here, really. It is only a couple of games that you're complaining about in this respect. No non-game program ever written for the Amiga, at least to my knowledge, throws out the OS. About 1/2 the games out there are well behaved with respect to the OS. Personally, I don't really care that much about games on this system, I use the thing to get work done. Those games that are well behaved will continue to work on more advanced hardware and OS releases, while those that break the rules will eventually cease to work. Let the buyer beware is a good rule, regardless of whether you're buying a $40 game or a $400 word processor. Companies that write good, bug free code and use the OS will ultimately be rewarded with a good reputation, customer loyalty, and many fewer customer support nightmares. Same as on any other system; all those Mac programs that didn't follow Apple's rules are breaking under Multifinder, on the Mac IIci or IIfx, and more will die when their new OS is released. >>And it's illegal to take over the machine. All developers know these things. >But they do it anyway...and they all say its due to those requirements >that it doesn't work. Some of them MUST be telling the truth. Huh? The vast majority of developers do things the right way, and don't get into any trouble when new hardware or system software comes along. Most of the ones who through out the OS are simply being lazy, programming as if they were on a C64. If they tell you they have to throw out the OS, they are very likely lying to you. A very small percentage of video games may need to take over the machine to go as fast as their authors would like them to go. It's up to you whether you buy there or not. >>> 6. Our hardware has to be the last on the expansion slot. >But I have an A1000 that was DESIGNED to do this, and it don't work. Again, huh? The A1000 doesn't have an expansion bus, it has a single expansion connector. You can hang one device on that, or you can hand an expansion box on that. Any of these multiple-box configurations are doomed to failure, and Commodore doesn't claim anything different. If a developer chooses to disobey the rules, that's bad, but there's nothing we can do to stop them. >>> 7. Normally, memory chips are $100/MB, but for you, an Amiga >>> owner, its $700-800 to upgrade from 1MB to 2MB RAM. >8 meg for a Intel 386 machine is $700.00 RETAIL! Microbotics sells an 8 meg board for the A2000 which I've seen for $750, and you can probably find it for less. The obvious problem with the 1000 is that you need a place to put that board. That's why the A2000 has the built-in slots; you more for an A2000 than an A1000 or A500, but you'll make up for it if you expand the thing. >I'm mad cause Allegra, (who owns the Amiga division I'm told?!?!?) wants to >charge me over $400 for ONE LOUSY MEG. This ain't right, chillun. First of all, Allegra is a third party product, it has nothing to do with Commodore-Amiga. Commodore-Amiga, Inc. is a division of Commodore Internation Limited. Secondly, if they charge too much, look elsewhere. This is a free market, and they charge what they believe the market will bear. With about 150,000 units, some of which are out of the market from Commodore's "upgrade to A2000" offers, no one's selling alot of these things. I think the Microbotics Starboard goes for about $400 for 2 megs. >>So the Amiga tells you of a failure, where the >>Mac or PC might simply freeze up. >I'm used to UNIX, I'll take your word for this one. UNIX is very nice in this respect; it is extremely difficult for a user program to bring the system down. This capability (protected operating systems) are moving onto PCs, but only to some degree. The low end machines like the A1000 simply cannot offer such protection; they don't have the required MMU hardware. High end Amigas like the 2500s and 3000s are capable of running UNIX, which of course can give you such protection. The current thrust under the Amiga OS is to provide developer tools that will trap such errant behavior using the MMUs on the high end systems. When developers fix these kind of bugs (and there are an amazing number of these kind of bugs in some commercial programs), you'll see far fewer software errors, even down at the low end. The _majority_ of software vendors aren't intentionally writing bad or buggy software, if anything, they're just rushing things to keep up with the competition. >All I want is the graphics and sound of the Amiga combined with the >speed, power and functionality of UNIX along with the expandibility of >a mainframe on my desk at home. But I can't afford a Silicon Graphics >machine. No much to ask, eh? You need something between a SG machine and an A1000, like something in the A3000 range, to actually run UNIX. The Amiga OS does have some advantages over UNIX: it's faster, it's more interactive (real-time response), it runs in much less memory, it runs on cheaper machines (68000 based), it takes less disk space, it's ROMable, it supports user-installable device drivers and filesystems, etc. Except for the chance of a user program crashing it, I like just about everything about the Amiga OS better than UNIX. But they are two different animals. For floppy based A500s, you absolutely need Amiga OS. For multiuser setups, you absolutely need UNIX. For the in-between, single user hard disk based system, either OS will work; the choice may depend on your personal perferences and the job that has to be done. And, of course, UNIX isn't available just yet. >-Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM > As long as the systems are up, my employers don't care what I think -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Get that coffee outta my face, put a Margarita in its place!
yarnall@usceast.UUCP (Ken Yarnall) (08/10/90)
In article <13725@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax (Dave Haynie) writes: +In article <1045@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: + +>All I want is the graphics and sound of the Amiga combined with the +>speed, power and functionality of UNIX along with the expandibility of +>a mainframe on my desk at home. But I can't afford a Silicon Graphics +>machine. + Sorry, I just had to add a few cents here. I spent a good bit of the summer working on a program, and some of the development was on a SGI machine (a Personal Iris). I cannot really vouch for the fact that any right-thinking American would wish this machine on him(her)self. Don't get me wrong; the hardware is very nice. The display is stunning, the cpu can really churn, etc. However, the windowing system is so slow as to be unuseable, even on a machine proported to have one of the fastest graphics systems around, and the implementation on UNIX is among the buggiest I have encountered. At one time our program was dumping core *inside the malloc() routine*. If malloc dumps core (apparently because of a bit of memory fragmentation; rebooting the computer would temporarily clear things up), god only knows what fun lies in wait in the rest of the system. Sun machines may be less trendy, but they sure are stable. Hell, the Beta AmigaOS 2.0's I've seen were more stable. By an Amiga 3000 and get happy, friend. + +>-Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM + +-- +Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" -kenny -- Ken Yarnall /// yarnall@cs.scarolina.EDU Math Department, USC \\\/// yarnall@ucseast.UUCP Columbia, S.C. 29208 \\\/ (803)777-6686 I want a T-shirt with a cow on it saying "Don't have a Bart, man."
jerry@truevision.com (Jerry Thompson) (08/10/90)
> >another system. 1000 -> 2000 -> 3000 -> 4000. Basically, I was told the >Amiga 1000 would be a true, expandable, multi-user system. The fact that >the expansions do not work unless they are the last one on the bus, and >I have to reboot to run most of the programs that really use graphics, >means that they lied. More importantly, they tried to cover up the fact >that they promised more than they could deliver and then tried to blame >it on everyone but themselves. > >heard of the Rejuvenator, but not until I told myself I wouldn't buy any >more hardware for a computer that has no support. I suppose I owe it to >myself to investigate this possibility. > >I do, I do. One of my favorite things to do in the world is point out >bugs to software vendors....usually, it becomes real obvious who is good >and who ain't by the way they handle the information. > Have you looked at the expansion boxes for the A1000 which provide ZorroII slots. I know they aren't free, and it would have been preferable to have had vendors make Zorro I products in the first place... but they didn't. So let's try and find the best solution for you. The NET should be trying to find answers for this problem. I hope you don't get any "love it or leave it" responses. As consumers, we all need to remind vendors (both software and hardware) that compatibility does matter a great deal to Amiga owners. I don't think Commodore bashing is appropriate in this case either. I bought my A500 over an A2000 on the HOPE that products would become available for the expansion slot. My gamble has paid off. I have had 2 Megs RAM, 2 hard drives, and an Easyl all hanging off the slot. Because Commodore provides the CAPABILITY to do all these wonderful things does not mean they guarantee to provide all the additional gizmos we want. We vote with our $$$ which products we want manufacturers to provide. Granted Commodore could have done some things to increase sales of the original A1000 (like taking out ads) which would have made a more attractive market for vendors. Other than that, I think Commodore HAS made a real effort to make their products expandable. The A1000 upgrade offer was a much more reasonable upgrade offer than Apple's Mac upgrades. Hmmm, I can't seem to recall IBM's upgrade offers.
martens@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Martens) (08/10/90)
In article <3391@usceast.UUCP> yarnall@usceast.UUCP (Ken Yarnall) writes: [ ... ] >etc. However, the windowing system is so slow as to be unuseable, even on a >machine proported to have one of the fastest graphics systems around [ ... ] Sounds like X11 to me. -=- -- Jeff (martens@cis.ohio-state.edu) "Life is like a bad margarita with good tequila, I thought as I poured whiskey onto my granola and faced a new day." -- Peter Applebome, International Imitation Hemingway Competition
klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) (08/11/90)
>The Amiga 1000 is a true system. It is also expandable. It was never sold >as a mult-user system, and to date, no Amigas are being sold as multi-user >systems. The Amiga OS is by definition a single user multitasking OS and >Commodore has never claimed anything to the contrary. Sorry, multitasking is what I meant...and if ya gotta reboot, it ain't. I'm going to kill myself later today for making that mistake, and I'll just hate myself in the morning. That should make up for it. As for the rest of my nebulous ramblings that you responded to with your hard, cold facts....you are right. I was wrong to question the great Amiga Gods and their seeming ability to produce more hardware in three years than IBM. All I'm saying is this: Why don't they produce an AMIGA that will do what people want and expect and were promised from the beginning? Then, take the money that will pour in and develop the next generation. It seems as though each new piece of iron is to fix the problems of the last piece. With software I can appreciate the idea of updates, with costly hardware, I cannot. Especially and possibly limited to: MY $$$$ ;-) Give me that Amiga I so desire the first time, then in 5 years give me enough new possibilities to make the new generation of iron worth the cost. -Kevin -- -Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM As long as the systems are up, my employers don't care what I think "Obviously, I am dealing with inferior mentalities." - Daffy Duck
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (08/12/90)
In article <1055@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: > All I'm saying is this: Why don't they produce an AMIGA that will do > what people want and expect and were promised from the beginning? They did. They have no control over the sort of crap PC-freak third-party developers pull. > It seems as though each new piece of iron is to fix the problems of the > last piece. Really? They look more like enhancements than bug-fixes to me. What problems are you talking about? -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (HIM) (08/13/90)
In relation to this discussion (I won't quote as I am not responding IN SPECIFIC to anyone) that is on the sources base... I have a A1000 (one of the first 10 sold in NJ BTW - I worked at the store) with 2.5 MEG of RAM , a hard drive, a 10 meg removable storage unit, 2 floppies, Genloc, Frame Grabber and audio digitizer. Note that there are 2 devices on the bus, and when I have my other 1 MEG expansion it was 3 .. all with pass thru. I NEVER had a problem with that bus. Some folks I know that DID have a problem solved it with a simple grounding mod. It is NOT C='s fault that some stupid developer could read a spec sheet for his life and built it wrong. The problem is that most PC owners will "accept" that "it isn't compatible with your machine" stuff .. so the developers are used to getting away with it. I can run ALL the software that is available today (with the exception of 020/030 only programs) and have YET to see a reason to buy a 2000/2500. I WILL get a 3000 though ;=). My A1000 has done EVERYTHING I have asked, and pays my rent. What more does anyone want ? ========[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Amiga & Unix Software Development]======== = "And in the darkened offices, the terminals shine like stars." = ============= Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1 ================== = NONE of the opinions represented here are endorsed by either = = Xanadu Enterpises or its clients, AT&T Bell Labs or others. = ==== The Romantic Encounters BBS 201-759-8450(PEP) / 201-759-8568(2400) ====
michael@fts1.uucp (Michael Richardson) (08/14/90)
[Please note followup. This _IS_ a religious issue, and doesn't belong in alt.sources.amiga. ] In article <1037@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: >Because IMHO, the people that make the Amiga lie through their teeth when >it comes to supporting the hardware and living up to their claims of >expandability. Especially, but probably not limited to, the A1000. Nope, just the A1000. > 2. We don't support that software any more. Only broken software that didn't follow the rules. > 3. Our software doesn't have to be forward compatible. Well, better to break it, than to do an IBM and just continue to sell faster, more expensive, and less compatible hardware to fix what is essentially a software problem. I overheard one fellow complain that SPSS was too slow on his 33MHZ 386 with a Wren III disk. I asked him what OS is was running and then launghed. > 4. Our software doesn't have to be backward compatible. Don't buy it. I agree that 2.0 should have been 1.4, and 2.0 SHOULDN'T have had a 'dos.library' > 5. You have to reboot in order to run our program. Don't buy it. There are better ways. > 6. Our hardware has to be the last on the expansion slot. The A1000 was not originally designed to be daisy chained. The 2000 and 3000 have no such problems, and the only thing stopping you from using your Zorro II cards in a 3000 is that the 3500 isn't out, so you might run out of slots, and you might stay up at night worying about not having 32 bit performance out of your 16 bit boards. > 7. Normally, memory chips are $100/MB, but for you, an Amiga > owner, its $700-800 to upgrade from 1MB to 2MB RAM. Particularly if you insist on upgrading your 1000. You are right -- you got sucked into buying a prototype. I couldn't afford it at the time and then the 500 and 2000 came out. I could have gotten a 500 a year and half earlier than when I got the 2000. I waited. > 8. Guru crashes are the fault of the Amiga, they are caused by > vendors who don't write software the way Commodore wants. What exactly ARE you saying? >I love what the Amiga does. I hate what the Amiga does. Agreed. -- :!mcr!: | < political commentary currently undergoing Senate > Michael Richardson | < committee review. Returning next house session. > Play: mcr@julie.UUCP Work: michael@fts1.UUCP Fido: 1:163/109.10 1:163/138 Amiga----^ - Pay attention only to _MY_ opinions. - ^--Amiga--^
klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) (08/14/90)
In article <138.26c18ff6@intersil.uucp> hamilton@intersil.uucp writes: > >That's interesting. I've got an Amiga 1000 with a 65M hardrive, a 68030 with >4M 32 bit fast ram, and I'm having an EXTREMELY hard time rationalizing the >purchase of an Amiga 3000, which I really want to do because it's new, sexy, >and does everything at least a little bit better than my 1000. But I haven't >been able to do it. I can't think of anything that I use my Amiga for (DTP, >WP, games, programming) that I can't do as well with my 1000. The extra >display modes and de-interlacer would be nice, Zorro II and III slots would >be nice, the additional speed would be nice, but overall I can't justify it. >The last thing I feel is left out in the cold because I bought a 1000. Yeh, and how much cash did you lay out to get it there? And how long did you wait after the A1000 first came out before it was available? Sheesh. >So complain to Cinemaware. If a game crashes an Apple or IBM you don't >whine about the platform, it's just lousy software. First off, for the record, I think that Apples and IBM are EVIL, dig? Second, just because Apple and IBM should jump off a cliff, does that mean Commodore should also? That's like saying since Pintos explode on impact, that I shouldn't be unhappy when my Cadillac does the same thing. Third, I should complain to Cinemaware, (Actually, I did) who is at least producing some games I like, instead of Commodore, who apparently is so difficult to work with from a vendor standpoint, that most would rather not. And don't flame me for this one, I didn't make it up and I heard it all the time, back when I was trying to get software/hardware for my A1000. They were all wrong, and Commodore was right? The reason I heard, from more than one vendor, was that apparently Commodore didn't release any specs until they released the product. That seems like a real intelligent move when you have the world's second tiniest customer base. So I ended up with a GREAT fucking machine, that wouldn't run any decent games, not to mention Business software, because they were not available, And before you flame me for more "whining", it was a full year or more after I bought my 1000, before I could get ANY worthwhile software for the Amiga, except maybe from EA. And they don't do nuthin but games that I'm aware of...Hardware was available, but it cost a fortune because of the small customer base. And as I said before, it didn't all work together. If Commodore isn't responsible for its vendors directly, they certainly had a vested interest in working WITH those vendors instead of leaving them in the dark because they (Commodore) didn't make any immediate $$$ from helping them. But, you're probably right, I shouldn't question authority, after all, the exploding Pinto wasn't Ford's fault, right? -- -Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM As long as the systems are up, my employers don't care what I think "Obviously, I am dealing with inferior mentalities." - Daffy Duck
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) (08/15/90)
In article <1056@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes:
And before you flame me for more "whining", it was a full year or more
after I bought my 1000, before I could get ANY worthwhile software for
the Amiga, except maybe from EA. And they don't do nuthin but games that
I'm aware of...
You're not very aware. Then again, that's been apparent since your
second post. EA has a fair number of productivity tools on the market,
with names like Deluxe XYZZY. Deluxe Paint was available from day one.
I got my C compiler before the end of March, 86 - and it only took
that long because the things had sold out at the local dealer.
Hardware was available, but it cost a fortune because of
the small customer base. And as I said before, it didn't all work together.
Neither of which is CBM's fault.
And, if you were more aware, you'd realize that _everything_ you
complain about (as opposed to what you report hearing from vendors,
many of whom are apparently either lieing, or as badly informed as you
are) for the Amiga was true for every other machine when it was
released, unless it was compatable with some previous machine so that
there was a pre-existing software and/or hardware base.
You did something daring - you bought a new machine that had no
existing customer, support, hardware, or software base. Expecting it
to develop any of those overnight, and expecting products in them to
be anywhere near as cheap as machines that had been around for years,
is at best naive.
Those who knew what they were getting into are mostly happy, though
not completely so. However, over the years, we've seen a number of
people who bought Amigas when they were new who then bitched that they
weren't everything an IBM PC was. That's sort of like complaing
because you it's harder to get parts for your Ferrari than for a Ford.
It's obvious you're going to have that problem, and there's no one to
blame for not seeing it but yourself.
Most of those whiners finally either shut up when the software they
wanted appeared, or went out and bought machines that suited their
needs. The hardware and software you want is certainly out there. Yes,
it's going to cost more than for an IBM PC or a Mac if it's going to
work well (as opposed to the way the IBM and Mac stuff works). You
want quality, you gotta pay for it. You want cheap, then you're going
to have headaches.
Remember, you never get more than two of the following three: good,
fast, cheap. And it's hard to even get two.
<mike
--
When all our dreams lay deformed and dead Mike Meyer
We'll be two radioactive dancers mwm@relay.pa.dec.com
Spinning in different directions decwrl!mwm
And my love for you will be reduced to powderstergios@portia.Stanford.EDU (stergios marinopoulos) (08/15/90)
speaking of winers, is this the same mwm that went on and on and on and on about the new bus specs, that they were incompatible, and finally bryce made a custom jig for? my, how people change. sm
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) (08/15/90)
In article <STERGIOS.90Aug14172526@sunsweet.Stanford.EDU> stergios@portia.Stanford.EDU (stergios marinopoulos) writes:
speaking of winers, is this the same mwm that went on and on and on
and on about the new bus specs, that they were incompatible, and
finally bryce made a custom jig for? my, how people change.
Not it isn't. Bryce never made the custom jig. CBM cost me thousands
of dollars and months of time by making what amounted to a cosmetic
change. If you read what I've written here carefully, you'll see that
I mention that change as a justifiable reason to be pissed, because it
caused expansion hardware to be delayed and A1000 expansion hardware
to cost more than it should.
I never flamed CBM about what the vendors did - that's not CBM's
fault. I never flamed CBM for promising one thing and delivering
another - for the most part, they delivered on their promises. I never
flamed the software vendors for providing software that didn't
multitask - I rarely have problems with that. All I ever did was flame
CBM for doing everything they could to kill the A1000 expansion
market. That resulted in expansion hardware being delayed and
overpriced. If you tried to buy hardware at reasonable prices/times
(i.e. - what it would have been if CBM hadn't made those changes), it
was unreliable because it didn't follow spec. That wasn't CBMs fault.
So what's the change?
<mike
--
How many times do you have to fall Mike Meyer
While people stand there gawking? mwm@relay.pa.dec.com
How many times do you have to fall decwrl!mwm
Before you end up walking?daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (08/15/90)
In article <1056@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: >In article <138.26c18ff6@intersil.uucp> hamilton@intersil.uucp writes: >>That's interesting. I've got an Amiga 1000 with a 65M hardrive, a 68030 with >>4M 32 bit fast ram, >Yeh, and how much cash did you lay out to get it there? And how long did >you wait after the A1000 first came out before it was available? Sheesh. Considering the 68030 wasn't even invented until several years after the A1000 came out, I suspect he did have to wait awhile. >>So complain to Cinemaware. If a game crashes an Apple or IBM you don't >>whine about the platform, it's just lousy software. >First off, for the record, I think that Apples and IBM are EVIL, dig? >Second, just because Apple and IBM should jump off a cliff, does that mean >Commodore should also? That's like saying since Pintos explode on impact, >that I shouldn't be unhappy when my Cadillac does the same thing. You're still ranting here, instead of making any sense. Your car analogy is all wrong. The software you're complaining about is something Commodore can't do anything about. Period. You can put that kind of software on an Amiga, an Apple, or a PC. You can put water in the gas tank of a Pinto just as easily as you can put water in a Cadillac, and neither Ford nor GM can prevent that anymore than Commodore can prevent "take over the machine" software. It's simply out of the control of Commodore. Commodore can just as easily prevent you from physically tossing your machine out the window. Is that such an amazingly difficult concept for you to grasp? >Third, I should complain to Cinemaware, (Actually, I did) who is at least >producing some games I like, instead of Commodore, ... You complain to Cinemaware because IT IS THEIR FAULT. Plain and simple. You don't complain to Commodore because they have nothing to do with it. Get it? Same reason you would complain to the Exxon people if they put water in your Caddy's gas tank, rather than complaining to GM. Grok? >-Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Get that coffee outta my face, put a Margarita in its place!
jcb@frisbee.Sun.COM (Jim Becker) (08/17/90)
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) writes: In article <STERGIOS.90Aug14172526@sunsweet.Stanford.EDU> stergios@portia.Stanford.EDU (stergios marinopoulos) writes: speaking of winers, is this the same mwm that went on and on and on and on about the new bus specs, that they were incompatible, and finally bryce made a custom jig for? my, how people change. Not it isn't. Bryce never made the custom jig. CBM cost me thousands of dollars and months of time by making what amounted to a cosmetic change. If you read what I've written here carefully, you'll see that I mention that change as a justifiable reason to be pissed, because it caused expansion hardware to be delayed and A1000 expansion hardware to cost more than it should. A number of the original hardware manufacturers lost a hell of a lot more money because of changes made. The Pal box from Byte by Byte cost well into six digits to get out in even limited production, using the original Zorro standard. Then CBM decided to drop this for a different form factor. That's a lot of bucks to piss away just to have things changed. Of course no one in their right mind would produce cards for Zorro, even if there was a limited market for them at the time. The PalJr that was shipped by Byte by Byte was actually hardware that was designed by the Amiga folks to be introduced at the time of the launch. (Byte by Byte bought rights to it from CBM.) It was all working and on schedule within Amiga (well, as best as the schedule was). However CBM canned it and decided not to come out with harddisk and expansion memory hardware. So it took another year and a half to get something out, and people developed with 512K and floppies. This is a good example of shooting yourself in the foot early on. Even if they did a limited production run of this hardware, and charged a lot of money, they would have created a developers platform that would have enhanced software deveoplment enormously. I never flamed CBM about what the vendors did - that's not CBM's fault. I never flamed CBM for promising one thing and delivering another - for the most part, they delivered on their promises. Live! Genlock, SCSI, Unix? Perhaps CBM is a lot better than Atari, but these four elements were released at least two years after they were working in the lab. I know that it takes a long time to get things into production, but this was not based as much on technical problems as political. Although never an employee, from what I could see going on this was my impression. The advancement of my software (Multi-Media) depended on harddisk and genlock to make it snazzy. I quit waiting for hardware in Fall of 1987, and for the most part nothing came out for over a year in any kind of reliable volume. Can't live on crackers that long.. I have to admit they did a good job with the A500, but think if they had put SCSI on it, like the Atari, there would have been a big difference. I never flamed the software vendors for providing software that didn't multitask - I rarely have problems with that. All I ever did was flame CBM for doing everything they could to kill the A1000 expansion market. That resulted in expansion hardware being delayed and overpriced. If you tried to buy hardware at reasonable prices/times (i.e. - what it would have been if CBM hadn't made those changes), it was unreliable because it didn't follow spec. That wasn't CBMs fault. There is a lot of blame that can be placed on CBM not following a straight track. They have had some pretty shakey relations with dealers and others in the past. From what I've heard things are better. So what's the change? I haven't been in the Amiga world for a while, but hear that it's gotten better. The sad thing is that the Amiga attracted some of the brightest and most creative people I've seen, who were eventually turned off in one way or the other by CBM. There were more developers originally for the Amiga than any other computer. They seemed to come in waves though, with a high burn-out/turnoff rate. Too bad - it's a great machine, and could have really made a big difference in the computer world. Five years have gone by, and it's still ahead of plenty computers, but will never go bigtime 'cause of it's sorted history. Anyone want an A1000 with Zorro backplane? <mike -Jim Becker -- Jim Becker / jcb%frisbee@sun.com / Sun Microsystems
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) (08/18/90)
In article <140833@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> jcb@frisbee.Sun.COM (Jim Becker) writes:
I never flamed CBM about what the vendors did - that's not CBM's
fault. I never flamed CBM for promising one thing and delivering
another - for the most part, they delivered on their promises.
Live! Genlock, SCSI, Unix? Perhaps CBM is a lot better than Atari, but
these four elements were released at least two years after they were
working in the lab.
I don't recall CBM promising any of those things for the A1000 except
the genlock. I do believe the A1300 (genlock) was released in '86, and
I bought one of the last produced in '87. Wanna buy it? Of course, you
forgot the Transformer. Then again, I didn't buy an A2000 until last
June - and it's (thankfully) banished from my house to make room for a
A3000.
And "working in the lab" in no way constitutes a "promise". Neither
does a demo - that shows promise, but isn't one. A "promise" is an
announcement that something will be available, but it needs a ship
date to be believable. From what I saw, CBM has been incredibly bad
about missing ship dates, and even worse about demoing things and then
putting off releasing them for long periods of time.
Anyone want an A1000 with Zorro backplane?
If you've got a complete high-end A1000 system (8Meg ram expansion
board, possibly unpopulated + SCSI adaptor) that works, there's a
market for it. I didn't have a lot of trouble selling mine. Post to
the appropriate for sale group, crossposted to c.s.a (make sure the
distribution is limited by the for sale group).
<mike
--
It's been a hard day's night, Mike Meyer
And I been working like a dog. mwm@relay.pa.dec.com
It's been a hard day's night, decwrl!mwm
I should be sleeping like a log.jms@tardis.UUCP (08/27/90)
In article <1056@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: >So I ended up with a GREAT f***ing machine, that wouldn't run any decent >games, not to mention Business software, because they were not available, >And before you flame me for more "whining", it was a full year or more >-Kevin L. Gross Systems Mgr. klg@Summation.WA.COM This discussion does NOT belong in alt.sources.amiga; move it to comp.sys.amiga! This group is for sources. If memory serves me correctly, we can blame Kevin for starting this line of discussion in the wrong place. -- Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: jms@tardis.tymnet.com or jms@gemini.tymnet.com BT Tymnet Tech Services | UUCP: ...!{ames,pyramid}!oliveb!tymix!tardis!jms PO Box 49019, MS-C51 | BIX: smithjoe | 12 PDP-10s still running! "POPJ P," San Jose, CA 95161-9019 | humorous dislaimer: "My Amiga speaks for me."