tims@mako.UUCP (Tim Stoehr) (07/25/84)
Yessirrree folks, it's flame time again. I was playing my favorite form of masochism today, namely rogue. I was getting the hell bit out of me by rattlesnakes, down to 6 strength, desperately searching for a restore strength potion while carrying 5, count them, 5 potions of gain strength. I then walk into a room and found a potion, quaffed it, lo and behold, it's a restore strength. That's great, right? But NOOOOOOO, this is turns out to be a party room, a nymph jumps up and "She steals 4 potions of gain strength." I almost die of frustration right there, but it turns out she only took one of them. That's good, right? NOOOOOO! I try to quaff the other potions of gain strength, but it seems the nymph bug has got me by the balls, followed quickly by the save bug. Give me a break! It's bad enough rogue gives you an enema of probability with it's ream-job generator, but its inexcusable that it's full of game-killing bugs. Rogue has such a potential as a good game, but instead it's just a crock of shit. Someone should advise the author(s) of this game that the skill in generating a game lies not in putting it on the edge of statistical impossibility to win, but in making it simply difficult yet interesting to win. Instead, all we have with rogue is a fight against probability. The whole games is randomly generated, look, you need the following, or most of the following things to win. a restore strength potion. several gain strength potions. a couple potions of raise level. a protect armor scroll. several enchant armor scrolls. a two handed sword. several enchant weapon scrolls. good Hp increments on level changes. a couple of scare monster scrolls. a couple of teleport scrolls. a ring of regeneration. a ring of slow digestion. a staff of polymorph. (well charged) a staff of teleport away. (well charged) several (extra) healing potions. good luck not to waste the above items in useless situations. incredible luck to not get confused by a medusa while being held by a flytrap, or any of millions of other crappers. no nymph bug. no save bug. Now, how do you get these things? PURE RANDOM CHANCE, no other way. You can figure out the odds of getting them, and they are astronomically small, but the point is that it is nothing but random luck. What bullshit.
mwm@ea.UUCP (07/31/84)
#R:mako:-23300:ea:3900009:37777777600:437 ea!mwm Jul 31 11:57:00 1984 /***** ea:net.games.rogu / mako!tims / 1:38 pm Jul 27, 1984 */ Now, how do you get these things? PURE RANDOM CHANCE, no other way. You can figure out the odds of getting them, and they are astronomically small, but the point is that it is nothing but random luck. What bullshit. /* ---------- */ Sounds like a complaint about any game involving chance - from somebody who hasn't figured out where the skill in the game is. <mike
tims@mako.UUCP (Tim Stoehr) (08/09/84)
[] > Sounds like a complaint about any game involving chance - from somebody > who hasn't figured out where the skill in the game is. > <mike Well, it isn't. If YOU knew anything about the game, you'd know that what I said is true. If you ever get to that skill level, you'll only then realize that there is no amount of skill that will get you ANYWHERE without the favor of the random number generator. Claiming that skill can win rogue, which you did not, is to display total igorance of the game.
kel@ea.UUCP (08/13/84)
#R:mako:-23300:ea:3900011:000:641 ea!kel Aug 13 08:54:00 1984 [hic] If YOU knew anything about rogue, you would not have neglected to mention the primary resource needed to win rogue: LOTS of food. Given that, rogue can be beaten by a little luck, (it takes really rotten luck to end up with less than Str 18 and Arm 6 or 7) and some finesse about how to fight monsters and when to change levels. The worst luck you can have is for these decisions to be taken out of your hands by starvation. <ken P.S. The real bugs in the game are legitimate flames. I have been bitten by them myself, (my 4.1 rogue wouldn't even save games at all) but don't whine to the net if the game is too tough for you.
mwm@ea.UUCP (08/13/84)
#R:mako:-23300:ea:3900012:000:1078 ea!mwm Aug 13 12:31:00 1984 /***** ea:net.games.rogu / mako!tims / 5:57 pm Aug 10, 1984 */ [] > Sounds like a complaint about any game involving chance - from somebody > who hasn't figured out where the skill in the game is. > <mike Well, it isn't. If YOU knew anything about the game, you'd know that what I said is true. If you ever get to that skill level, you'll only then realize that there is no amount of skill that will get you ANYWHERE without the favor of the random number generator. Claiming that skill can win rogue, which you did not, is to display total igorance of the game. /* ---------- */ Obviously, in any game where luck is involved, you can be raped by the chance factor. Claiming that Rogue is "on the edge of statistically impossible" (or some such) is going to far. Equally obviosly, if skill is involved and you ain't got it, you aren't going anywhere. You're right in that I ain't a super rogue player. But I don't spend a lot of time playing. From what I've seen, the puzzle part of Rogue isn't significantly harder than the cube (without a book, of course). <mike