dfm@sagepub.UUCP (David F. McCune) (03/18/89)
I work at a company with a PDP 11/70 running RSTS V. 7.2.
Is there anyone out there interested in RSTS? Maybe
we can get a meaningful discussion going on comp.os.rsts....
David
--
David McCune, Sage Publications, Inc.
2111 West Hillcrest Drive, Newbury Park, CA 91320
voice: (805) 499-0721 uucp: ...srhqla!sagepub!dfm
"No!! I just wanted you to remove the file named S-T-A-R...."randy@rls.UUCP (Randall L. Smith) (03/22/89)
In message <1245@sagepub.UUCP> David McCune writes; > I work at a company with a PDP 11/70 running RSTS V. 7.2. > Is there anyone out there interested in RSTS? Maybe > we can get a meaningful discussion going on comp.os.rsts.... I've worked with rsts/e for 7 years. My teething ring so to speak. Since I began mumble years ago, I've been on Vms, Unix, Rsx-11m, and yecchy Dos. I am still very fond of Rsts and no matter what the Unix C programmers (since I'm becoming one) say, Basic-Plus-2 is an acceptable language. Since almost all the Rsts utilities were written in Basic Plus and/or Basic-Plus-2, its better than the uninitiated think. I think Dos Basic gave Bp2 a bad name and understandibly so. If you're not on Unix or aren't familiar with shells, I feel the Runtime Systems (rts) of Rsts are akin to the Unix shell. A major difference seems to be the Rsts rts images have their own library calls for specific objects like Rt11, Rsx, Bp2, Basrun, etc, where Unix shells don't. Unix uses more unified and global libraries outside the auspices of the Shell(s). Unix shells are (I believe), in the Rsx venacular, Command Language Interpreter(s) or CLI's. This seems to be at a high level, like the Vms Dcl or Rsx Mcr CLI's. Don't get me wrong, there are significant differences in the way the CLI's do their job, but I see alot of similarities. Obviously, theres lots more to say, but I'll leave that as a discussion exercise. ;-) I have developed RSTS Systat/s- type of shell scripts, as well as others, to make Unix systems admin much easier. In fact, I had to learn Unix by translating what I read and heard to my native languages. :-( I believe a discussion *would* be enjoyable. It might get some similarities and differences through my thick head. I like to hear more without holy wars, just objective info. Operating systems jihad? Uh oh, Iatolla didn't like that ... I'm in trouble now. > David McCune, Sage Publications, Inc. > 2111 West Hillcrest Drive, Newbury Park, CA 91320 > voice: (805) 499-0721 uucp: ...srhqla!sagepub!dfm > "No!! I just wanted you to remove the file named S-T-A-R...." del *.*/y? Cheers! - randy Usenet: randy@rls.uucp Bangpath: ...<backbone>!osu-cis!rls!randy Internet: rls!randy@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
sg04@bunny.UUCP (Steven Gutfreund) (03/22/89)
I used to work in the RSTS/e operating system group in versions 6 and 7. I have not seen RSTS/e since I stopped working for DEC. I'm curious, what version did RSTS/e get up to and what is DEC's level of support these days? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Yechezkal Shimon (Steven) Gutfreund sgutfreund@bunny.UUCP GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA sgutfreund@gte.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
mithomas@bsu-cs.UUCP (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (03/23/89)
In article <6710@bunny.UUCP>, sg04@bunny.UUCP (Steven Gutfreund) writes: > I used to work in the RSTS/e operating system group in versions 6 and 7. > I have not seen RSTS/e since I stopped working for DEC. I'm curious, > what version did RSTS/e get up to and what is DEC's level of support > these days? The last time I worked with RSTS/E was on version 6C. I remember because our system said "Welcome to RSTS/E V06E Timesharing" when you logged in. That rhymes... The last time I asked what the current version was someone told me that it was somewhere in the late 8.x's. Maybe it's finally made it to V9? I must say, the implememtation that I had to deal with was the worst possible. We had a choice of languages: BASIC-PLUS or Macro (no we didn't have BP-2). We had a choice of editors: TECO or TECO. This would have been fine, except we didn't have any compatible terminals (heck, they weren't even compatible with each other -- junk) so we were stuck with a line editor. In BASIC, it is easier to type the whole line over again... Our school (actually a cooperative of 15 schools) used a little PDP-11 to do all gradesheets, scheduling, and accounting -- IN BASIC-PLUS! I still have nightmares about this. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Yechezkal Shimon (Steven) Gutfreund sgutfreund@bunny.UUCP > GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA sgutfreund@gte.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -Michael "I stick with Macs and VAX now" Niehaus -- Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)
usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (03/23/89)
RSTS/E: Resource Sharing Time Sharing System/Extended In my senior year I ran my high school's PDP-11/84 under RSTS/E V7.1-11. It was great for our little learning environment, good old BASIC-PLUS. The 11/84 was given new RC-25s to replace its old RKik-06s and a new version of RSTS, V9.3-20. If you were interested in reading the monitor tables, forget it now, its all in "unmapped memory". Version 9 brought about many changes, the biggest being everything depending on DCL... YUCK! Last I heard was that RSTS is up to at least 9.5 and I've heard rumors of version 10. Did I hear that V8 was the last major release of RSTS? News from the high school says that the old PDP is still working away under RSTS... allowing students to rip the operating system apart to figure out how it works. Many good memories of getting RSTS to do what it wasn't suppose to. Now I'm working on Suns under UNIX... I have to admit the workstations are much more comfortable, but UNIX is a little less friendly. John F. DeStefano CPS Student @ Michigan State University Mail: destefan@cpsin2.cps.msu.edu "The Jawas wanted to sell him 3CPU, but 3CPU didn't know how to talk to an 11/40 with RSTS/E, so Luke would still need some sort of interface for 3CPU to connect to." -- "DEC WARS!"
jonathan@cs.keele.ac.uk (Jonathan Knight) (03/23/89)
From article <6710@bunny.UUCP>, by sg04@bunny.UUCP (Steven Gutfreund): > I used to work in the RSTS/e operating system group in versions 6 and 7. > I have not seen RSTS/e since I stopped working for DEC. I'm curious, > what version did RSTS/e get up to and what is DEC's level of support > these days? I installed version 9.5 recently although I don't use the machine myself. I'm afraid its becomming a VMS lookalike as the main keyboard monitor is now DCL and not BASIC. Its still a nice OS to use though. -- ______ JANET :jonathan@uk.ac.keele.cs Jonathan Knight, / BITNET:jonathan%cs.kl.ac.uk@ukacrl Department of Computer Science / _ __ other :jonathan@cs.keele.ac.uk University of Keele, Keele, (_/ (_) / / UUCP :...!ukc!kl-cs!jonathan Staffordshire. ST5 5BG. U.K.
robin@csuchico.uucp (Robin Goldstone) (03/24/89)
I recently upgraded our three PDP's (2 11/70's, one 11/84) to RSTS 9.5. The latest version is 9.7 (?). I pretty much regret the decision. We were very stable at 8.0 for a long time. The main reason I upgraded was that most of software updates require 9.0 or greater. I also thought the VMSlike DCL capabilities would be nice, such as LOGIN.COM files for users. However, there are more bad things than good at 9.5. I will not get into specifics until I determine that there really is life out there in this newsgroup. Is anyone out there using 9.5 that would like to have a discussion about some of its 'features'? Is anyone from DEC reading this if so are you brave enough to admit it? Awaiting your response. Robin Goldstone, Systems Software Specialist California State University, Chico Computer Center robin@csuchico.edu
beadel@penelope.oswego.edu (Edward F. Beadel Jr.) (03/25/89)
In article <1245@sagepub.UUCP> dfm@sagepub.UUCP (David F. McCune) writes: >I work at a company with a PDP 11/70 running RSTS V. 7.2. >Is there anyone out there interested in RSTS? Maybe >we can get a meaningful discussion going on comp.os.rsts.... > >David > >-- > David McCune, Sage Publications, Inc. > 2111 West Hillcrest Drive, Newbury Park, CA 91320 > voice: (805) 499-0721 uucp: ...srhqla!sagepub!dfm > "No!! I just wanted you to remove the file named S-T-A-R...." David (and the others that have responded), Yes RSTS/E is alive and well. We are up to Version 9.6 and the development continues. Development continues, new hardware gets supported, DECNet/E keeps improving (we'll get CTERM someday ...), user and applications can use seperate I&D space, supervisor space is finally being used also. The backup/restore is compatable with VMS, most of DCL is VMS compatable, there are Compatiability/co-existance manuals for RSTS/E - VMS covering the subjects DCL, BASIC+2, FORTRAN, COBOL (which one can get *FREE* from DEC ... if your sales person dosn't know about this drop me a note or give me a call). I will attempt to get any problems questions forwarded to the DECUS RSTS SIG steering committee and the RSTS/E development group. I am a member of the DECUS RSTS SIG steering committee. There is a RSTS SIG bulletin board system at St. Peters College, Jersey City, NJ ... (201) 915-9361 ... give it a try... -ed Edward F. Beadel, Jr., Assistant Director Instructional Computing Center SUNY College at Oswego beadel@oswego.Oswego.EDU Oswego, NY 13126 (315)-341-3055
dfm@sagepub.UUCP (David F. McCune) (03/26/89)
I'd certainly be interested in hearing your observations on 9.5.
We currently run a medium-sized publishing company on 7.2. All
our software is homegrown, using DIBOL (oh, god...) and RMS.
We never upgraded to 8.x because of persistent rumors that
file handling in 8.x was much slower. And pure inertia kept
us from upgrading to 9.x. Of course, we miss out on any
DEC support (now THERE's an oxymoron) by sticking with 7.2,
and most off-the-shelf applications require at least 8.0.
So what's wrong with 9.5?
David
--
David McCune, Sage Publications, Inc.
2111 West Hillcrest Drive, Newbury Park, CA 91320
voice: (805) 499-0721 uucp: ...srhqla!sagepub!dfm
"No!! I just wanted you to remove the file named S-T-A-R...."robin@csuchico.uucp (Robin Goldstone) (03/28/89)
In article <1158@oswego.Oswego.EDU>, beadel@penelope.oswego.edu (Edward F. Beadel Jr.) writes: > > I will attempt to get any problems questions forwarded to the > DECUS RSTS SIG steering committee and the RSTS/E development group. > > I am a member of the DECUS RSTS SIG steering committee. > I have started a collection of RSTS problems since going to 9.5 from 8.0 in January. We do not have DEC support unfortunately so there is no one for me to pass these problems along to. When I first did the upgrade I had some problems and DEC gave me a 'courtesy call' into their software support center in Colorado. One of the things I mentioned to them was a change in the representation of "Creation Date" on a file. At 8.0 (and in general in my opinion) the creation date of a file represented the date that a file was first created. That date should never change. At 9.5 however, I noticed that every time a file was modified, its creation date was updated. I asked DEC about this and they said it is supposed to be this way because every time you update a file you really replace that file with a new version which has just been created. I think this is a bunch of bullsh*t. The file creation date needs to reflect the date that the file was first created or it is a useless piece of information. I have other gripes about RSTS 9.5 including bugs in LOGIN and LOGOUT, a bug in DecMail 3.1 and numerous concerns regarding implementation of DECnet 4.0. I will get more specific if anyone expresses interest. But for now, I would just like to know if anyone agrees with DEC's logic regarding file creation date. I know of no other system that treats creation date in this manner. Robin Goldstone, Systems Software Specialist California State University, Chico Computer Center robin@csuchico.edu
kurtzman@pollux.usc.edu (Stephen Kurtzman) (03/28/89)
In article <6710@bunny.UUCP> sg04@bunny.UUCP (Steven Gutfreund) writes: >I used to work in the RSTS/e operating system group in versions 6 and 7. I hear ya.
kenb@hp-ptp.HP.COM (Ken_Buscho) (03/29/89)
Well, it's good to see RSTS is still alive! Even though I've been over in HP-land for nearly 5 years now, I still look back on the RSTS days with a certain fondness. I think the first PDP/11 I worked with was on RSTS 5 something. THe box had a 128K memory and supported 20-30 users. Wish my 386 box with 4Meg could do that... Have sysgens got any easier? By the time 7.0 rolled around it was getting easier. I still think TECO was one the better editors around (I mean, how many editors out there let you PROGRAM in them :-)!!) Oh, well, hope this group goes OK. Good to hear that one of the friendlier OSs is still around In case you haven't figured it out, these are my opinions, mine alone, and probably not those of Bill, Dave or anyone else in HP-land... Ken Buscho
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (03/30/89)
In article <16133@oberon.USC.EDU> kurtzman@pollux.usc.edu (Stephen Kurtzman) writes: > In article <6710@bunny.UUCP> sg04@bunny.UUCP (Steven Gutfreund) writes: > >I used to work in the RSTS/e operating system group in versions 6 and 7. Gee, there seem to be more olde RSTS hack here than people with problems. I guess I'll have to represent the early days: an educational installation supporting RSTS 2A20 thru version 5 with a little later dabbling with 6?... Sadly the horror stories of 1971/72 are't of much relevance 17+ years later. How do you explain to these new kids about special paper tape loops to put in your teletype cafefully timed to log back in and crash the sytem only moments after it came back up... .......13,13 fish.....& sin(x,) ...... . . . . ...................................... Or the wonders of 512K fixed head disk drives, or backing up your monster RK05 pack on ~10 DECtapes with rollin/rollout - or the time DEC came down and put a bunch of little memory write lock switches dangling on wires out the front of the PDP-11/20. Sigh... out -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)