jha%lfcs.edinburgh.ac.uk@NSS.Cs.Ucl.AC.UK (Jamie Andrews) (07/26/88)
In article <12366@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> David Collier-Brown writes: > A close friend and serious techie (in biology) carefully placed >her teen-aged daughter in a religious private school.... > When I have mentioned this as a positive measure, various people >have commented on how "sexist and narrow-minded it is to send a >girl to a girls' school". You will find a lot of support for this from Dale Spender in her book _Invisible Women_, about women and education. I think it's a perfectly valid individual response to the wider social problem of the neglect and discouragement girls face in mixed-sex schools. (Though this is neglecting issues of elitism that sometimes arise in private schools.) This shouldn't preclude us from still trying to change mixed-sex schools, possibly from within -- ie. demanding that our children get equal treatment there. But we still have to do what's best for individuals, which in some cases means single-sex schools. --Jamie. jha@lfcs.ed.ac.uk "Mayan skies sleeptalk with voices of lovers" p.s. hi to the old *.women gang [But how good are the science programs at single sex schools? At the University I'll be teaching at next year, (it was the women's campus of the University of North Carolina system till the mid-sixties) there isn't even a computer science major. TR]
shore@ncifcrf.gov (Melinda Shore) (07/27/88)
In article <12620@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> you write: >[But how good are the science programs at single sex schools? At >the University I'll be teaching at next year, (it was the women's >campus of the University of North Carolina system till the mid-sixties) >there isn't even a computer science major. TR] It probably varies as widely as the quality of the science programs at coeducational schools. My sister went to an exclusive girls' school here in Virginia which has its own science building and individualized instruction. She was able to take several years of advanced math, something she would not have been able to do in the public schools. She had had social problems when she was younger, and the school helped build her self-confidence and made her much more comfortable with herself. She went on to get a Ph.D. in physics. I doubt she'd be doing as well as she is if she hadn't gone to Madeira. Melinda -- Melinda Shore shore@ncifcrf.gov NCI Supercomputer Facility ..!uunet!ncifcrf.gov!shore
clambert%hector@Sun.COM (Caroline Lambert [summer intern]) (07/28/88)
In article <12620@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> jha%lfcs.edinburgh.ac.uk@NSS.Cs.Ucl.AC.UK (Jamie Andrews) Trish adds at the end: >[But how good are the science programs at single sex schools? At >the University I'll be teaching at next year, (it was the women's >campus of the University of North Carolina system till the mid-sixties) >there isn't even a computer science major. TR] For a reason too long and uninteresting to explain, I spent one year in a single sex school in England, doing the first year of their 'A' levels. I majored in physics, chemistry, pure and applied maths. Had I stayed in England I would have had to take the second year of 'A' levels before starting university. However, back in Canada the following year I found that I had already covered half my first year material as an undergrad majoring in geophysics. Maybe that says more about the standard of education in England, but it did allow me to compare the mixed high school I had attended in Canada with a single sex one. Out of a class of 800 grade 12 students, there were 3 women in my grade 12 physics class. Out of a class of 60 taking 'A' levels, there were 6 taking physics. Now, does that say something? BTW, there were also far more women participating in sports at the single sex school. No cheerleaders either. Caroline Lambert caroline@polya.stanford.edu clambert@sun.com
maslak@decwrl.dec.com (Valerie Maslak) (07/29/88)
In respnse to Trish's note on Jamie's article... The issue of whether or not there is a CS major may be secondary to whether or not women are treated with respect for their intellectual abilities and achievements. But then I was never very comfortable with the idea of undergraduate school as vocational training anyway...I guess I know too many people who are doing things they never studied formally. In my daughter's high school, private, all-girls, the science and math classes are jammed. Most girls take the AP tests, most get 4 or 5 on them. My daughters KNOW that they are intellectually capable, they KNOW how to speak out in class, talk to teachers, question, learn. It doesn't occur to them to hold back because the boys might not like them to be too smart. My older daughter is now at Berkeley, and doing well, in genetics. She has no math anxiety, feels as comfortable in a literature class as a chemistry class. I honestly don't think she would have been this free, this strong, without a solid experience of being respected. And I'm not sure that most coed schools provide this. If a young woman is self-confident and sure of her abilities to begin with, it may not matter. But the single-sex model has a lot to recommend it as an arena for growth.
slf@lll-crg.llnl.gov (Sharon Lynne Fisher) (07/29/88)
>[But how good are the science programs at single sex schools? At >the University I'll be teaching at next year, (it was the women's >campus of the University of North Carolina system till the mid-sixties) >there isn't even a computer science major. TR] Really. I went to an all-womens college for two years. The only computer science course they would let me take as a freshman was Basic, although I'd programmed in Basic since sophomore year in high school. By the second semester, I started taking classes at nearby RPI, and I eventually ended up transferring there. Not just because of academics. Also because of the people. At the womens school, I was harrassed for being friends with the guys instead of dating them, for hanging around with guys who weren't in frats or on the hockey team, etc. The activities weren't as good, and the people for a damn sight weren't as intelligent or interesting.
sommers@pilot.njin.net (Mamaliz @ The Soup Kitchen) (07/30/88)
My parents sent me to an all girls Catholic prep school for high school. We are not Catholic. It probably saved my life. For the first time in my life I saw strong women roll models. The fact that I was smart was much more important than the fact that I was phenomenally ugly and un-coordinated. The science program was TERRIBLE. But this was 18 years ago. Trig, logs and calculus were not offered. In fairness, I am probably the only student who would have signed up for the program, most of the other students were upper-class Mexicans, sent across the border by their parents. Trig is not a big part of that culture. We were NOT heavily dosed with religion, the school was run by ultra-liberal nuns, and we were not terribly elitest (probably because of a very good scholarship program). I can't speak for everybody, but I know it was great for one bright, suicidal woman. My sister (who was not ugly or un-coordinated) also loved it. We also got an excellent liberal arts education, something that seems to be lacking in both college and high-school today. liz sommers@njin.rutgers.edu
joanne@hpccc.hp.com (Joanne Petersen) (08/02/88)
I also attended an all-women's school, and it wasn't full of Computer Science courses, but this was in the 60s, when not many technical schools had those courses, let alone the lib-arts place I went to. So I took math courses and enjoyed them (even if I did end up switching majors from math to studio art!). The main reason I'm writing, though, is to say that the women at my college weren't totally obsessed with dating and jocks. We cared about our classes, and I for one enjoyed the opportunity to attend a class and be able to grow out of my shyness and actually participate in discussions, something I rarely did when in (co-ed, private) high school (where men tended to dominate the discussions -- yes, women did speak up, but not as often!). The major drawback to an all-women's college is that the only way to meet men is in dating situations -- i.e., it's hard to meet them as friends. Since I prefer becoming friends with someone before I get into a deeper relationship, this made it rather difficult for me to date. I helped matters by taking classes at the nearby University of Massachusetts (we had an exchange program with them), but that option isn't likely to be available to many schools. rats