marcia%hpindl8@hp-sde.sde.hp.com (Marcia Bednarcyk) (02/10/89)
The other day on the "Today" show, the guests were discussing the Tower nomination for Secretary of Defense. One person mentioned that the mere allegation of "womanizing" would have killed the nomination if Tower were a woman (would she have been "manizing"?). This brought to mind the remark made in the last discussion about why women don't post more which read something like "women tend to worry about their reputations more than men". I think what was made prefectly clear to me is that women *have* to, as long as the double standard is still around. Also along these lines, does anyone know of a woman that has "overcome" a personal scandal of that sort and still gotten a prestigious post or something similar? Somehow I doubt it, if something like crying can be used to help bring Patricia Schroeder's presidential campaign to a screeching halt. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Marcia Bednarcyk ADDRESS: (hplabs, sun, ucbvax, uunet)!hpda!marcia "Sweaty Snugglebunnies."
michaelm%vax.3Com.Com@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Michael McNeil) (03/02/89)
Marcia's article is right on the edge of being applicable to women in computing or women and the net, but I felt it deserved a reply. [I too agreed that it was right on the edge, but I received so many responses along these same lines that I felt obligated to let one slide over. TR] In article <6376@ecsvax.UUCP> marcia%hpindl8@hp-sde.sde.hp.com (Marcia Bednarcyk) writes: >The other day on the "Today" show, the guests were discussing the Tower >nomination for Secretary of Defense. One person mentioned that the mere >allegation of "womanizing" would have killed the nomination if Tower were >a woman (would she have been "manizing"?). I'm not at all sure that's true. Congress would have a tough time killing appointment of a woman to the Cabinet on a mere allegation. (Moral: Don't believe everything you hear on the "Today" show....) >This brought to mind the remark made in the last discussion about why women >don't post more which read something like "women tend to worry about their >reputations more than men". I think what was made prefectly clear to me is >that women *have* to, as long as the double standard is still around. Although remnants of the double standard still exist, I doubt that many women nowadays are penalized for not being married to their boyfriends, say -- behavior that would have caused them great difficulty in society and employment only a few decades ago. (A personal experience: I grew up until I was twelve thinking my brother was my *uncle* -- all because my parents didn't want my father's side of the family to know my mother had been married before.) Today, in my own employment (a computer firm in California's Silicon Valley) and elsewhere, I know a number of women in living-together situations who are respected managers or engineers. I haven't conducted a survey, but I see no evidence their careers have been noticeably hampered. If you were to run for President, it might be different (for either a man or a woman) -- but things aren't static. >Also along these lines, does anyone know of a woman that has "overcome" >a personal scandal of that sort and still gotten a prestigious post or >something similar? Somehow I doubt it, if something like crying can be used >to help bring Patricia Schroeder's presidential campaign to a screeching halt. Didn't a tear bring Ed Muskie's presidential campaign to a screeching halt a number of years ago? No, that could *never* happen to a man! ;-) >Marcia Bednarcyk ADDRESS: (hplabs, sun, ucbvax, uunet)!hpda!marcia -- Michael McNeil michaelm@3comvax.UUCP 3Com Corporation hplabs!oliveb!3comvax!michaelm Mountain View, California work telephone: (415) 969-2099 x 208 I know perfectly well that at this moment the whole universe is listening to us -- and that every word we say echoes to the remotest star. Jean Giraudoux, *The Madwoman of Chaillot*