karenc@amadeus.TEK.COM (Karen Cate;6291502;92-734;LP=A;60.D) (06/23/88)
Lines: 32 In article <11169@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> sri-unix!swbatl!bst@rutgers.edu (Brenda S. Thompson 235-3335 M110) writes: >I think this is all a bunch of poppy-cock. > ... >I have studied ergonomics for a number of years, and have reviewed >this debate on a number of occassions. My personal opinion is that >there is no real basis for this argument. > >Brenda > >[The researchers did emphasize that they saw a statistical, not a >causal, correlation. TR] > I agree, it never made any sense to me (even though I have never been pregnant...). There could be a lot of other causes for this statistical correlation. Stress maybe? Sitting still (maybe in an uncomfortable position) for longer periods of time (than other workers)? It sounds like the arguement that because sports cars are involved in more accidents, they are unsafe to drive. I always assumed that sports cars were involved in more accidents because of the personalities / driving habits of the type of people that bought them. The cars in and of themselves are no less safe to drive than any other. Why would a VDT be any worse than a television set? (Don't tell me because we sit closer longer. I've seen Mom's watching soap operas. Heck, I've seen me watching soap operas!) Karen A. Cate Tektronix Inc, Beaverton OR tektronix!amadeus!karenc -OR- karenc@amadeus.LA.TEK.COM [What was unclear from the report is if women working with VDTs had more miscarriages than women working at jobs with similar stress levels, but no VDTs. TR]
gf@rutgers.edu (G Fitch) (07/02/88)
There's nothing to stop people who have a little equipment at
home from forming workers' or producers' cooperatives. They already
have most of their capital (the equipment and a place to put it)
and no one really needs a boss. All that's needed is someone
to answer the phone and keep the records -- one of the cooperators,
possibly, or hired help.
--
G Fitch ...!uunet!mstan\
The Big Electric Cat { harvard,philabs }!cmcl2!cucard!dasys1!gf
New York City, NY, USA (212) 879-9031 ...!sun!hoptoad/
*If you follow up, please mail me a copy. All mail ackowledged.*jane@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Jane Medefesser) (07/07/88)
Path: tolerant!jane From: jane@tolerant.UUCP (Jane Medefesser) Newsgroups: comp.society.women Subject: Re: Women Wizards? Message-ID: <2164@tolerant.UUCP> Date: 7 Jul 88 15:59:43 GMT References: <11734@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> Reply-To: jane@tolerant.UUCP (Jane Medefesser) Organization: Slobbering Systems, Inc. Lines: 17 In article <11734@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> marcia%hpindl8@hplabs.HP.COM (Marcia Bednarcyk) writes: > >After reading the discussion on the technical core, a question came to mind: >why are there no women computer wizards, and what is preventing them (if >anything)? > There is at least one woman wizard known to all - Rebecca Thomas who edits the "Wizard's Grab-bag" colum of Unix World Magazine. If she's not in fact a wizard, then she's doing a real good job faking it (and I doubt that). It might also interest you to know that the Senior Staff Engineer at Tolerant Systems is a woman... her name is Joan Arnett. She has had this position for all of the 2 years I have been here - probably more than that. So they're out there - they're just still very much in the minority.
mls@ee.ecn.purdue.edu (09/16/88)
Just a further note supplementing this mention of Philip Kraft. He published an excellent study called _Programmers and Managers_ (I think the publisher was Addison-Wesley) about 8 to 10 years ago. It has a number of perspectives on the issue of "technical core" that inaugurated this newsgroup -- he points out the advantage to management of both the "rationalization" of jobs into low status clerical-type positions and the somewhat looser "social control" exercised in the Germanic engineering model -- pay a lot for someone fresh out of a technical school (fawn on them, even; make them see themselves as superior to anyone else -- it keeps them from noticing what's going on) and then after a few years, plateau them in a position where they are essentially stuck for 40 years until retirement. The realization that they are being exploited dawns so slowly that they never manage to think about opposing it until retirement is near and fighting the "benefit provider" is effectively impossible. By all means, let's hear some more about Kraft and his work! -- Michael L. Siemon contracted to AT&T Bell Laboratories att!mhuxu!mls standard disclaimer
tan@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Greer Hsing Tan) (03/02/89)
In article <6431@ecsvax.UUCP> rch@pyrtech.pyramid.com (Robin Humphrey - SE Denver) writes: >>>I read the article too, and most of what you say is an accurate >>>representation of what is in it. >>>... It also went on to stress the importance of >>>role models. Most successful women in the computer field have >>>parents, or other mentors who work in the field and >>>introduced them to computing (with encouraagement) at an early >>>age. >> >>Hrmph! How about a local survey of successful women in this newsgroup: >>Did you have mentors at an early age? Were they your parents, or others? >> > >I grew up with 3 brothers very close in age and my parents treated us all >equally. From them I was encourged to take an aptitude test at age 15 and >the results pointed me towards computer engineering work. They encouraged >me to find out if I liked it, so I went to 2 years of technical school >while I was in high school. My father was a lifetime IBM'er and felt >women made excellent additions to any field and that I to could succeed at >anything that I wanted if I set my mind to it. I was *NOT* however encouraged >by school counselors or teachers :-( . It wasn't until I hit the real world >that I found women were so scarce and men were often not accepting me. I >now work in an office of 7 professional men, 1 female receptionist and myself >a systems engineer :-) > >- rch I grew up with 2 sisters. Unlike rch, I think that had we had any sons in the family, everything would have been a lot different. However, Since my parent had no son to put into a career and represent our family (just sort of inbred into the chinese mentality I think) All three girls were taught that we could do just about anything that we set our minds to doing. It sounds a little hokey I know, but my parents ... especially my mother, used to always say that the shame was not in failing to achieve our goal, it was in failing to try. My mother was also a rebel in her time ... a civil engineer and career minded woman even when she was in Taiwan. I think being the only chinese in my school (not counting my sisters) also sheltered me from discrimination because I was a girl. It seemed that my being chinese was the reason that I was different in my love for math and science. Mr. Martin Badoain of Canton High School in Canton, Ma was definitely my mentor even though I had a world of encouragement from my parents and family. Mr. B was the head of the math department and coach of the math team. Moving to Massachusetts my Freshman year of high school I think had a very major part in my career development and decision making. I think I'd have been an engineer regardless, but perhaps not as confident about it as I am now. Canton high school had a female dominated undefeated math team in all of New England when I joined in 1980. I don't think the thought that girls weren't meant for math or science got introduced to me until College, and even there ... asian girls were none too rare at MIT. I think now I've hit the pressure of the ratio difference a little more, but becuase of my background, I don't recognize a lot of the prejudices against me as being a direct result of my being female ... and as a result, those initial prejudices die pretty fast. I too work in a male dominated environment here at JPL ... and because I've not been taught to think of myself as being different from my co-workers as far as ability and potential ... I don't think there has been any obstacles. I was promoted with 6 months of my employment here and I don't feel that I've had any constraints or anything put on me! Greer
tan@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Greer Hsing Tan) (03/02/89)
In article <6562@ecsvax.UUCP> sagpd1!eprice@uunet.UU.NET (Eric Price) writes: > I'm posting this after a debate I had with my mother. > We were discussing women and there mathematical abilities, > PLEASE NO FLAMES !!! . I was just wondering if in history > have there been any world caliber women mathematicians. > Kind of like Madam Curie was to Phisics and Chemestry only > in the field of mathematics. This sounds pretty metaphysical to me. I mean, we are pretty aware of the society we lived in for many many centuries. Given that even if there WAS a brilliant female mathematician ... she also would have had to fight pretty darn hard to be recognized, right? I mean, was Madam Curie the ONLY female who understood Physics and Chemistry? The metaphysical part is like the question "When a tree falls in a forrest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" ... "If a woman was brilliant in mathematics, but made no big tadoo about it (fearing the contempt of society), and therefore no one ever really knew about it, does that mean she never existed?" Greer PS ... this isn't a flame. I just think your question needs to be seen in a different light. It's sort of hard to answer, you know?
asaph@taurus.BITNET (Zemach Asaph) (09/01/89)
Path: taurus!asaph From: asaph@taurus.BITNET (Zemach Asaph) Newsgroups: comp.society.women Subject: Re: Injuries from mouse device Message-ID: <1065@taurus.BITNET> Date: 4 Aug 89 21:44:40 GMT References: <7214@ecsvax.UUCP> <7270@ecsvax.UUCP> <7352@ecsvax.UUCP> Reply-To: asaph@libra.UUCP (Zemach Asaph) Organization: Tel-Aviv Univesity Math and CS school, Israel Lines: 22 In article <7352@ecsvax.UUCP> eleazar!ari@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (Ari Halberstadt > >I use a Mac plus with a standard mouse; you could also consider purchasing >a track-ball, such as the one made by Kensington (advertised in most >Macintosh magazines). Or, you could convince your wife to take more >frequent breaks. > >Ari Halberstadt: ari@dartmouth.edu I use an amiga mouse, and I'm not sure whats the difference but I've found that using a mouse accelarator progam very usefull in these situations because you can rest yuor whole hand on the table and only move the mouse with the tips of your fingers - the accalarator translates the speed of movement in such a way that getting from one part of the screen to another takes just as much mouse movement as to move a few pixels. In fact I can get to anywhere on a 640x256 pixel screen by moving the mouse no more then 2-3 inches (depending on the speed I move the mouse), with my arm on the table the only thing that actualy works when I move the mouse are my fingers. Asaph asaph@taurus.bitnet asaph@math.tau.ac.il