[comp.protocols.iso.x400] x.400 for Internet?

mfi@beach.cis.ufl.EDU (Mark Interrante) (03/06/90)

Hi,
I am rather niave on the subject of mail protocols, but now that
momentum is gathering for x.400 are there any *plans* to provide x.400
in Unix and begin to transition the Net (mail/News) to X.400?
Thanks

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Interrante   		  Software Engineering Research Center
mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu		  CIS Department, University of Florida 32611
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

mark@cblpf.att.COM (Mark R Horton) (03/07/90)

> I am rather niave on the subject of mail protocols, but now that
> momentum is gathering for x.400 are there any *plans* to provide x.400
> in Unix and begin to transition the Net (mail/News) to X.400?

AT&T Mail currently offers an X.400 gateway, and a number of products
based on the UNIX and MS DOS systems to interface with it.  These
products, such as PMX and ACCESS PLUS, are not raw X.400, but tailored
to the UNIX way of doing things (e.g. text files you can use UNIX
editors and tools with instead of X.400 binary files.)

As I understand it, these products are positioned as enhancements
adding value to the basic UNIX system, so they won't be on the vanilla
System V distribution.  System V release 4 comes with an email system
based on UUCP and TCP/IP standards, supporting uux and SMTP.  (No, it
doesn't use sendmail, but a simpler SMTP back end to a simple,
powerful, and configurable switch in the rmail command.  It is much
easier to configure and much more secure than sendmail.  A very nice
system.)

As I understand it, X.400 Netnews is an oxymoron, indeed X.400 mailing
lists may also be an oxymoron.  Something about all responses,
including replies and nondelivery notifications, going to the same
address.  This is based on indirect information, is it correct?

	Mark

mark@cblpf.att.COM (Mark R Horton) (03/07/90)

> I am rather niave on the subject of mail protocols, but now that
> momentum is gathering for x.400 are there any *plans* to provide x.400
> in Unix and begin to transition the Net (mail/News) to X.400?

AT&T Mail currently offers an X.400 gateway, and a number of products
based on the UNIX and MS DOS systems to interface with it.  These
products, such as PMX and ACCESS PLUS, are not raw X.400, but tailored
to the UNIX way of doing things (e.g. text files you can use UNIX
editors and tools with instead of X.400 binary files.)

As I understand it, these products are positioned as enhancements
adding value to the basic UNIX system, so they won't be on the vanilla
System V distribution.  System V release 4 comes with an email system
based on UUCP and TCP/IP standards, supporting uux and SMTP.  (No, it
doesn't use sendmail, but a simpler SMTP back end to a simple,
powerful, and configurable switch in the rmail command.  It is much
easier to configure and much more secure than sendmail.  A very nice
system.)

As I understand it, X.400 Netnews is an oxymoron, indeed X.400 mailing
lists may also be an oxymoron.  Something about all responses,
including replies and nondelivery notifications, going to the same
address.  This is based on indirect information, is it correct?

        Mark

Christian.Huitema@mirsa.inria.fr (Christian Huitema) (03/07/90)

>As I understand it, X.400 Netnews is an oxymoron, indeed X.400 mailing
>lists may also be an oxymoron.  Something about all responses,
>including replies and nondelivery notifications, going to the same
>address.  This is based on indirect information, is it correct?

No. It is implementation dependant for the X.400(84) systems, as the
standard did not address the subject. Some implementation do it
simply, other do it better. Interesting studies were
conducted in the European project AMIGO on the subject.

The handling of distribution lists, including nested lists and
interconnected lists, is extensively described in the 1988 standard.

>	Mark

Christian Huitema

mmarsh@ciss.dayton.ncr.COM ("Mel.Marsh@ciss.Dayton.NCR.COM") (03/07/90)

In article <22557@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@beach.cis.ufl.EDU writes:
>
>Hi,
>I am rather niave on the subject of mail protocols, but now that
>momentum is gathering for x.400 are there any *plans* to provide x.400
>in Unix and begin to transition the Net (mail/News) to X.400?
>Thanks
>

At the Electronic Mail Association meeting in Miami last week there were
presentations by Marshall Rose (involved with NYSERNet) and Stephen Wolff
(NSFNet) about plans for X.400 and X.500 on the Internet.  Stephen Wolff
talked more about X.400 and Marshall Rose talked about X.500.  There are
plans to begin migrating Internet to X.400 over TCP/IP in the near future
with full OSI stacks in the long future.  Marshall Rose presented the
results of a pilot using X.500 for "white pages" of Internet users which
was very successful.  Again, the short term plan is for X.500 to run over
TCP/IP with long term plans for X.500 over OSI.

There are many vendors who are developing X.400 and X.500 products for Unix
systems.

BTW, some e-mail addresses for you:

Stephen.Wolff@nsf.gov
Marshall.Rose@psi.com

EMA has mailboxes on just about any e-mail service you can think of.
ATT Mail     !EMA
CompuServe   70007,2377
Dialcom      63:PRD003
EasyLink     62886257
Envoy 100    EMA
GEnie        EMA
iNET         ema.association
MCI Mail     EMA
OnTyme       EMA.SUP
SprintMail   [ema/associates]
	     mail/usa

So pick your favorite service & talk to them.  Also, both MCI and
CompuServe have connections to the Internet.


--
Mel Marsh
NCR Corporation, Network Application Services
Mel.Marsh@Dayton.NCR.COM

yee@trident.arc.nasa.GOV ("Peter E. Yee") (03/07/90)

In article <22557@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@beach.cis.ufl.EDU writes:
>I am rather niave on the subject of mail protocols, but now that
>momentum is gathering for x.400 are there any *plans* to provide x.400
>in Unix and begin to transition the Net (mail/News) to X.400?

University College London is developing an X.400 package and an SMTP<->X.400
gateway system.  It will probably be part of a future release of the ISODE,
although I can't speak authoritatively for either the authors of UCL X.400
or ISODE.

							-Peter Yee
							yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov
							ames!yee

cargille@cs.wisc.EDU (Allan Cargille) (03/17/90)

--- Included message #1

> From na-mhsnews-request@ICS.UCI.EDU Thu Feb 22 14:25:48 1990
> From: Ingo Cyliax <cyliax@bank.ecn.purdue.edu>
> Subject: finding an X.400 feed
> Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 14:09:51 GMT
>
> I'm interested in finding out more about X.400 and have some questions
> regarding X.400 in the U.S..
>
> 	1. where would one be able to find a X.400 feed (ADMD or PRMD) in
> 	   the U.S.?
> 	2. what agency/group decides on X.400 addressing in the U.S.? what
> 	   addressing schemes exist ?
> 	3. is that agency/group also responsible for deciding on who
> 	   can become an ADMD in the U.S. ? since the U.S. doesn't
> 	   have a PTT, can I assume that there are more than one ADMD's
> 	   in the U.S. ?
> 	4. what are some of the ADMD's in the U.S. ? how do they interconnect
> 	   with ADMD's in other countries ? do any of them internetwork with
> 	   other message services, such as the Internet ?
> 	5. has any of the ADMD's in the U.S. already committed themselves to
> 	   the X.400 (88) standard ?
>
> If anyone can send me some info by E-Mail, I could summarize them on the
> net.

--- Included message #2

> From na-mhsnews-request@ICS.UCI.EDU  Mon Mar  5 15:49:51 1990
> From: Mark Interrante <mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu>
> Subject: x.400 for Internet?
> Organization: UF CIS Department
> Date: 5 Mar 90 13:53:15 GMT
>
> Hi,
> I am rather niave on the subject of mail protocols, but now that
> momentum is gathering for x.400 are there any *plans* to provide x.400
> in Unix and begin to transition the Net (mail/News) to X.400?
> Thanks

Hi, I've been meaning to respond to this, but it took me a while.
Sorry!  I'm working on a pilot project with Professor Larry Landweber
to bring X.400 software to up to 40 university and government research
sites on the Internet.  We're presently funded by NASA.  We have a
license agreement with IBM that allows us to distribute 20 copies of
the X.400(84) software that was developed at the University of
Wisconsin.  This software supports a user interface that based on
ucb/mail, and stores messages in ASN.1 (binary) format instead of
ascii.  We are running ISO Session over TCP/IP using RFC1006.

The software is currently installed and running at the UW and the NSF
in Washington, DC.  Rice University is installing the software.  We are
working on getting license agreements signed with several other sites.
We are presently working on experimental X.400 connections with the
European RARE WG1 and R&D MHS Managers using RFC1006 over TCP/IP.

We plan to incorporate PP into our experiment when it becomes
available.  At some point in the future we hope to run directly on top
of TP4/CLNP.

We are still recruiting sites to join our pilot project and install and
use X.400.  If you are interested in joining or would like more
information, please email me or give me a call.  We are looking for
sites that will commit to using the software.

allan
--
Allan Cargille             Computer Sciences Department
Associate Researcher       University of Wisconsin-Madison
Internet X.400 Project     1210 West Dayton Street
cargille@cs.wisc.edu       Madison, WI   53706
uwvax!cargille             +1 (608) 262 5084

messing@gateway.mitre.ORG (03/20/90)

We at the MITRE Networking Center are very interested in joining your
X.400 pilot project.  We have been searching for an X.400 to in install and use.
We currently have the ISODE, running over SunLink or using RFC1006 over
TCP, and the BSD 4.3 OSI protocols running in our Internet Testbed.

Please send us any information we need to facilitate our joining the
project.  We have definite plans to use the X.400 software and would
like to be part of your test.

Thanks.

Judy Messing
-------------

Judy Messing                     The MITRE Corporation
Member Technical Staff           7525 Colshire Drive
Networking Center                McLean, Virginia 22102-3481
messing@gateway.mitre.org        +1 (703) 883-6670

gamiddon@maytag.waterloo.EDU (Guy Middleton) (03/21/90)

One can also run the EAN software, developed at the University of British
Columbia.  It is an X.400 mail system, and can use TCP as a transport layer.

pays@mars.emse.fr (Paul-Andre Pays) (03/21/90)

One can also use the INRIA MPLUS software, developed at the INRIA Sophia
research labs, It is an X.400 mails system plus RFC987 gateway and can use
TCP as a transport layer (even it provides access to DNS).
Contact Ch HUITEMA (huitema@mirsa.inria.fr) for availability conditions.

-- PAP

pv@Eng.Sun.COM (Peter Vanderbilt) (03/22/90)

Sun also has an X.400 gateway product.

Pete

MESSING%GATEWAY.MITRE.ORG@cunyvm.cuny.EDU (03/23/90)

We at the MITRE Networking Center are very interested in joining your
X.400 pilot project. We have been searching for an X.400 to in install and use.
We currently have the ISODE, running over SunLink or using RFC1006 over
TCP, and the BSD 4.3 OSI protocols running in our Internet Testbed.

Please send us any information we need to facilitate our joining the
project. We have definite plans to use the X.400 software and would
like to be part of your test.

Thanks.

Judy Messing
-------------

Judy Messing The MITRE Corporation
Member Technical Staff 7525 Colshire Drive
Networking Center McLean, Virginia 22102-3481
messing@gateway.mitre.org +1 (703) 883-6670

edward@TWG.COM ("Edward C. Bennett") (03/23/90)

The Wollongong Group is in the race as well. WIN-MHS can do SMTP, X.400
(1984 right now, 1988 next version) and RFC987. When running over WIN-ULS
(Upper Layer Services) it can talk X.400 over TCP, TP4 and X.25.
--
Edward C. Bennett - The other MMDF guy			edward@twg.com
The Wollongong Group					(415) 962-7252
1129 San Antonio Road, Palo Alto, CA 94303
   "He's become a growling, snarling mass of white-hot canine terror"

GAMIDDON%MAYTAG.WATERLOO.EDU@cunyvm.cuny.EDU (03/23/90)

>X-Attn: jns
>Path: maytag!gamiddon
>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.x400
>Organization: University of Waterloo Math Faculty Computing Facility
>Lines: 2
>Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 90 22:03:28 -0800


One can also run the EAN software, developed at the University of British
Columbia.  It is an X.400 mail system, and can use TCP as a transport layer.