bzs@bu-cs.UUCP (Barry Shein) (03/02/86)
>An IEEE publication lists a discussion of Senate Bill S. 1305, a bill >to establish penalties for the transmission by computer of obscene >matter. > Joe Yao hadron!jsdy@seismo.{CSS.GOV,ARPA,UUCP} First off, I think net.general was the *right* place for this. Yes, I believe that USENET itself stands as a shining example that we don't need no gummint folks telling us what's right and wrong on this issue. There have been disagreements, we have seen them aired, fixes were applied (eg. rot13) or offenders scolded, no one as far as I know has ever been injured or maimed in the process. Out of the thousands of folks that participate in this list, is there anyone who feels he or she or it has been injured sufficiently by any obscenity (real or perceived) on this network which they would have liked to have been able to call the FBI in (or whatever, I assume this is interstate at least) and have the person hit over the head with a big stick and thrown somewhere dark and damp for a few years? Or do you feel that the current method of dealing with it (anarchic fiat) is sufficient? I think a representative from USENET should be at the congressional hearings if they arise. Maybe we should all go. Yes, this concerns foreign sites. The flow of information is only as strong as its weakest link. The issue here sounds like not so much "what is obscene" but whether or not such a basis for judgement should be within the purvue of the police. I think not. If injuries occur I suspect the laws we have currently are sufficient to deal with them, there is no need for new police powers just because people are speaking over a different medium. Why don't those people in Washington do something useful like fund a new shuttle. -Barry Shein, Boston University
jsdy@hadron.UUCP (Joseph S. D. Yao) (03/04/86)
In article <228@bu-cs.UUCP> bzs@bu-cs.UUCP (Barry Shein) writes: >>An IEEE publication lists a discussion of Senate Bill S. 1305, a bill >>to establish penalties for the transmission by computer of obscene >>matter. >> Joe Yao hadron!jsdy@seismo.{CSS.GOV,ARPA,UUCP} >First off, I think net.general was the *right* place for this. >Yes, I believe that USENET itself stands as a shining example that >we don't need no gummint folks telling us what's right and wrong >on this issue. ... Thank you for approving, Barry. Reading further into the NoVa/DC Scanner, one sees that the intent of this bill is to prescribe specific penalties for use of computers and computer networks to describe and trade locations of children who are considered usable targets for sexual abuse. Does this change anyone's attitude toward this bill? (This was not a test: I wrote the first notice on the basis of the announcement at the beginning of the Scanner; the rest was toward the middle.) [Note that I still haven't read the bill, and so it could be still different from what the expanded notice makes of it.] -- Joe Yao hadron!jsdy@seismo.{CSS.GOV,ARPA,UUCP}
mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller) (03/06/86)
In article <279@hadron.UUCP>, jsdy@hadron.UUCP (Joseph S. D. Yao) writes: > [Note that I still haven't read the bill, and so it could be still > different from what the expanded notice makes of it.] S.1305 A BILL To amend title 18, Unitd States Code, to establish criminal penalties for the transmission by computer of obscene matter, or by computer or other means, of matter pertaining to the sexual exploitation of children, and for other purposes. _Be it enacted by the Seante and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,_ That this Act may be cited as the "Computer Pornography and Child Exploitation Act of 1985". Sec. 2. Section 1462 if title 18, UNited States Code, is amended by- (1) inserting after subsection (c) the following: "(d) any obscene, lewd, lascivious, or filthy writing, description, picture, or other matter entered, stored, or transmitted by or in a computer; or "Whoever knowingly owns, offers, provides, or operates any computer program or servide having a reasonable cause to believe that the computer program or service is being used to transmit in interstate or foreign commerce any matter the carriage of which is herein made unlawful; or"; and (2) inserting at the end thereof the following: "For purposes of this section - "(1) the term 'computer' means an electronic, magnetic, optical, electrochemical, or other high-speed data processing device performing logical, arithmetic, or storage functions, and includes any data storage facility or communications facility directly related to or oprating in conjunction with such device; "(2) the term 'computer program' means an instruction or statement or a series of instructions or statements in a form acceptable to a computer which permits the functioning of a computer system in a manner designed to provide apporpriate products from such computer system; "(3) the term 'computer service' includes computer time, data processing, and storage functions; and "(4) the term 'computer system' means a set of related connected or unconnected computers, computer equipment, devices and software.". Sec. 3. (a) Section 2251 of title 18, United States Code, is amended - (1) in subsection (a) by striking out "subsection (c)" and inserting in lieu thereof "subsection (d)"; (2) in subsection (b) by striking out "subsection (c)" and inserting in lieu thereof "subsection (d)"; (3) by redesignating subsection (c) as subsection (d); and (4) by inserting after subsection (b) the following new subsection: "(c) Any person who knowingly enters into or transmits by means of computer, or makes, prints, publishes, or reproduces by other means, or knowingly causes or allows to be entered into or transmitted by means of computer, or made, printed published or reproduced by any means - "(1) any notice, statement or advertisement; or "(2) any minor's name, telephone number, place of residence, physical characteristics, or other descriptive or identification, for purposes of facilitating, encouraging, offering or soliciting sexually explicit conduct of or with any minor, or the visual depiction of such conduct, shall be punished as provided in subsection (d) of this section, if such person knows, or has reason to know that such notice, statement, advertisement, or descriptive or identifying information will be transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed, or if such information has actually been transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed.". Sec. 4. Section 2252 of title 18, UNited States Code, is amended - (1) in subsection (a) by striking out "subsection (b) and inserting in lieu thereof "subsection (c)"; (2) by redesignating subsection (b) as subsection (c); (3) by inserting after subsection (a) the following new subsection: "(b) Any person who knowingly enters into or transmits by means of computer, or makes, prints, publishes, or reproduces by other means, or knowingly causes or allows to be entered into or transmitted by means of computer, or made, printed, published, or reproduced by other means any notice, statement, or advertisement to buy, sell, receive, exchange, or disseminate any visual depiction, if - "(1) the producing of such a visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and "(2) such visual depiction is of such conduct; shall be punished as provided under subsection (c), of this section, if such person knows or has reason to know that such notice, statement, or advertisement will be transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed, or if such notice, statement, or advertisement has actually been transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed.". Sec.5. Section 2255 of title 18, UNited States Code, is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new paragraph: "(5) 'computer' means an electronic, magnetic, optical, electrochemical, or other high-speed data processing device performing logical, artihmetic, or storage functions, and includes any data storage facility directly related to or operating in conjunction with such device.". Sorry for the long entry, but I thought folks might like to see the text of the bill. -- ==================================== Disclaimer: I hereby disclaim and and all responsibility for disclaimers. tom keller {ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020 (* we may not be big, but we're small! *)
carl@proper.UUCP (Carl Greenberg) (03/06/86)
In article <32@gilbbs.UUCP> mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller) writes: >In article <279@hadron.UUCP>, jsdy@hadron.UUCP (Joseph S. D. Yao) writes: >> [Note that I still haven't read the bill, and so it could be still >> different from what the expanded notice makes of it.] > > S.1305 > > A BILL > >To amend title 18, Unitd States Code, to establish criminal penalties for the > transmission by computer of obscene matter, or by computer or other means, > of matter pertaining to the sexual exploitation of children, and for other > purposes. > That mean that my big porno posters I have stored away in one of my directories are ILLEGAL? I think I'll post them to the net and see if I overthrow the government. > "(d) any obscene, lewd, lascivious, or filthy writing, description, > picture, or other matter entered, stored, or transmitted by or in a > computer; or I guess so. > "Whoever knowingly owns, offers, provides, or operates any computer > program or servide having a reasonable cause to believe that the > computer program or service is being used to transmit in interstate > or foreign commerce any matter the carriage of which is herein made > unlawful; or"; Great. So when I post them to Europe, even my sa gets in trouble. > "For purposes of this section - > "(1) the term 'computer' means an electronic, magnetic, optical, > electrochemical, or other high-speed data processing device performing ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ack! Confiscate my brain! Give me a forebrain shampoo and a lobotomy of the right hemisphere! Go ahead! > logical, arithmetic, or storage functions, and includes any data > storage facility or communications facility directly related to or > oprating in conjunction with such device; > "(2) the term 'computer program' means an instruction or statement > or a series of instructions or statements in a form acceptable to a > computer which permits the functioning of a computer system in a > manner designed to provide apporpriate products from such computer > system; GET UP. OPEN EYES. WALK TO TERMINAL. TURN TERMINAL ON. LOG ON UNIX. After all, it says my brain is a computer... Gee, talk about loopholes... > "(3) the term 'computer service' includes computer time, data > processing, and storage functions; and Don't talk to me, you're wasting computer time!!! And why aren't I getting paid for doing mathematics in my head every time I figure out another goddamn geometry proof? Not to mention all they try to cram your head with in the education process. > "(4) the term 'computer system' means a set of related connected or > unconnected computers, computer equipment, devices and software.". Hey, can one regard a town gossip network linked by phones as a kind of USENET then? According to this, we all carry computers in our heads and don't need to be connected (though getting connected is fun...). > "(5) 'computer' means an electronic, magnetic, optical, > electrochemical, or other high-speed data processing device performing Since when are any computers that don't operate on a basis of nerve networks and require such strange substances as blood to keep going? I wonder if anyone has bothered to figure out that they have just declared humans (and anything else with more brain than an earthworm) computers... > logical, artihmetic, or storage functions, and includes any data > storage facility directly related to or operating in conjunction with > such device.".
bill@sigma.UUCP (William Swan) (03/07/86)
In article <279@hadron.UUCP> jsdy@hadron.UUCP (Joseph S. D. Yao) writes: >Reading further into the NoVa/DC Scanner, one sees that the intent >of this bill is to prescribe specific penalties for use of computers >and computer networks to describe and trade locations of children >who are considered usable targets for sexual abuse. >Does this change anyone's attitude toward this bill? [...] >[Note that I still haven't read the bill, and so it could be still >different from what the expanded notice makes of it.] Does the fact that something _can_ be used for an illicit purpose automatically mean that it should be repressively regulated? I don't like the actions that this bill is intended to deal with, but I fear that it will cause the heavy hand of the law to fall on many, many innocents while leaving the guilty untouched. --
johnr@fluke.UUCP (John Redfield) (03/11/86)
> In article <279@hadron.UUCP>, jsdy@hadron.UUCP (Joseph S. D. Yao) writes: > > [Note that I still haven't read the bill, and so it could be still > > different from what the expanded notice makes of it.] > > S.1305 > > A BILL > > To amend title 18, Unitd States Code, to establish criminal penalties for the > transmission by computer of obscene matter, or by computer or other means, > of matter pertaining to the sexual exploitation of children, and for other > purposes. > > _Be it enacted by the Seante and House of Representatives of the United > States of America in Congress assembled,_ That this Act may be cited as > the "Computer Pornography and Child Exploitation Act of 1985". > > Sec. 2. Section 1462 if title 18, UNited States Code, is amended by- > -- > > ==================================== > > Disclaimer: I hereby disclaim and and all responsibility for disclaimers. > > tom keller > {ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020 This will make outlaws of half the people that post to net.jokes and 90% of the people that post to net.flame! John Redfield
flaps@utcs.uucp (03/14/86)
In article <32@gilbbs.UUCP> mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller) writes: the full text of this bill, which includes >To amend title 18, United States Code, to establish criminal penalties for the > transmission by computer of obscene matter, or by computer or other means, > of matter pertaining to the sexual exploitation of children, and for other > purposes. Seems to me that they are trying to put 'obscene matter' and 'sexual exploitation of children' into one bill, and get the first ruled illegal on the basis of the second. I believe this is quite common in law. And in my opinion quite immoral. I think that certainly there should be criminal penalties for encouraging the sexual exploitation of children, and that there should probably be social education but not criminal penalties for obscene matter. Of course, my definition of 'obscene matter' is probably entirely different from theirs, and besides this all presupposes the criminal justice system which I dislike anyway... But the important point here is: notice that this bill contains two unrelated ideas! Alan J Rosenthal {linus|decvax}!utzoo!utcs!flaps, {ihnp4|allegra}!cbosgd!utcs!flaps
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (03/21/86)
In article <1157@utcs.uucp> flaps@utcs.UUCP (Alan J Rosenthal) writes: >In article <32@gilbbs.UUCP> mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller) writes: >the full text of this bill, which includes >>To amend title 18, United States Code, to establish criminal penalties for the >> transmission by computer of obscene matter, or by computer or other means, >> of matter pertaining to the sexual exploitation of children, and for other >> purposes. > > ...Of course, >my definition of 'obscene matter' is probably entirely different from theirs, Yes, I consider this proposed bill 'obscene matter'. Does that mean if the bill passes, it can't be transmitted via computer? 1/2 :-) Keith Doyle # {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd # cadovax!keithd@ucla-locus.arpa
elric@proper.UUCP (Elric of Imrryr) (03/23/86)
<Feeder> So they are passing (passed) a law to make it illegal to transmit obscene stuff via computer? I seem to remember some FCC rule that makes it illegal to transmit obscenity over the radio or telephone lines, so I guess this new law makes it illegal to transmit the stuff by disk, paper tape, or coax cable? :) Seriously, I understand why you al are against this, the wording is `odd' like it is really meant to do 2 things. I have called up my Senator (Cranston D-Cal) and told his telephone answering person what I think. Although I have heard he fully supports the law. When I was under 18, I used to call X-rated BBS's, DYM's, and MicroSmut's (those things are neat when you are 17, and 1st get your modem, and I don't want this laws to ruin that fun for others :) qantel!proper!elric or lll-crg!dual!proper!elric or if you must seismo!caip!unirot (but the SysAdm prefers you don't) elric