gnulists@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Leonard H. Tower Jr.) (10/11/90)
The lists info-gnu-emacs, info-gcc and info-g++ were originally meant solely for announcements from the GNU Project. Over the years other traffic has become predominant. We have had an increasing number of complaints from readers of these lists who want them to go back to only announcements. To get things back on course, we will moderate these three info-* lists, change their newsgroups names to `announce' groups and create three new `help' lists as well as a `sources' list for GNU Emacs. We are also adding two new newsgroups to gate with two new mailing lists: gnu.groff.bug bug-groff@prep.ai.mit.edu gnu.smalltalk.bug bug-gnu-smalltalk@prep.ai.mit.edu If you don't get the gnUSENET newsgroups, subscribe by asking: bug-groff-request@prep.ai.mit.edu or bug-gnu-smalltalk-request@prep.ai.mit.edu And lastly, all the gnu.*.bug newsgroups will be marked moderated on the gnUSENET side. We are doing this to insure that we have addresses that we can reply to via mail. No actual moderation of the gnu.*.bug newsgroups will take place. This change just insures that all bug reports are mailed to prep.ai.mit.edu and then gated into gnUSENET. These changes will take effect this afternoon, except that we will wait a few days to start the actual human moderation of info-gnu-emacs, info-gcc and info-g++. NOTE: During the changeover period, there will probably be several sets of duplicates seen on info-gnu-emacs, info-gcc, info-g++, and all the bug-*@prep.ai.mit.edu mailing lists. It will help us, if you wait a week before starting to report them. We expect them to die down in 2 to 3 days (which is the propagation time to the ends of gnUSENET). Further details follow, and at the very end, the current copy of etc/MAILINGLISTS from the GNU Emacs distribution. * Create a list/newsgroup for GNU Emacs sources gnu-emacs-sources@prep.ai.mit.edu gnu.emacs.sources This list/newsgroup will be for the posting, by their authors, of lisp and C sources and patches that improve GNU Emacs. Its contents will be reviewed by FSF for inclusion in future releases of GNU Emacs. If source or patches that were previously posted or a simple fix is requested in help-gnu-emacs, please mail it to the requester. Do NOT repost it. If you also want something that is requested, send mail to the requester asking him to forward it to you. This kind of traffic is best handled by e-mail, not a broadcast medium that reaches thousands of sites. If the source is very long (>10k bytes) send mail offering to send it. This prevents the requester from getting many redundant copies. gnu-emacs-sources will start off having the combined readership of the both the info-gnu-emacs and bug-gnu-emacs lists. People who want off this list should ask gnu-emacs-sources-request@prep.ai.mit.edu. It will NOT be forwarded to any other USENET newsgroup. If you are reading this in comp.emacs and your site does NOT get gnUSENET, the gnu.all alternative hierarchy, please get your USENET administrator to get gnUSENET in, or ask gnu-emacs-sources-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to add you to the list. * Create these new lists/newsgroups for getting help help-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu gnu.emacs.help help-gcc@prep.ai.mit.edu gnu.gcc.help help-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu gnu.g++.help These forums will be a place for users and installers to seek help >from the rest of the GNU community. Do not expect developers to regularly follow these lists, they are fixing bugs and making improvements. Announcements should go to the info-* list, bug reports to the bug-* list, and everything else (except GNU Emacs source (see below)) should be posted to the help-* list. help-gnu-emacs will be forwarded to comp.emacs one way (as info-gnu-emacs is). help-g++ will be forwarded to comp.lang.c++ one way (as info-g++ is). Each help list will start off having the combined readership of the respective info-* and bug-* lists. People who want off a help mailing list should ask help-*-request@prep.ai.mit.edu. * Change info-gnu, info-gnu-emacs, info-gcc, info-g++ The old newsgroups gnu.emacs, gnu.gcc, and gnu.g++ will be deleted. gnu.emacs.announce, gnu.gcc.announce, and gnu.g++.announce will be created in their place. They will be moderated gnUSENET newsgroups as gnu.announce is. Shortly after the help lists/newsgroups are underway, these three info lists will be filtered as info-gnu/gnu.announce is, and will again become just announcements from the GNU Project about the appropriate program (and occasionally other relevant topics). If you have done some GNU-related work you feel would make sense to announce as part of the GNU project, please send it to an appropriate info-list. * etc/MAILINGLISTS from the GNU Emacs distribution: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GNU Project Electronic Mailing Lists. Last Updated 10 Oct 90 Please report improvements in this to: gnu@prep.ai.mit.edu * GNU mailing lists are also distributed as USENET news groups The mailing lists are gated both ways with the gnu.all newsgroups at ohio-state.edu. The one-to-one correspondence is indicated below. If you don't know if your site is on USENET, ask your system administrator. If you are a USENET site and don't get the gnu.all newsgroups, please ask your USENET administrator to get them. If he has your feeds ask their feeds, you should win. And everyone else wins: newsgroups make better use of the limited bandwidth of the computer networks and your home machine than mailing list traffic; and staying off the mailing lists make better use of the people who maintain the lists and the machines that the GNU people working with rms use (i.e. we have more time to produce code!!). Thanx. * Getting the mailing lists directly If several users at your site or local network want to read a list and you aren't a USENET site, Project GNU would prefer that you would set up one address that redistributes locally. This reduces overhead on our people and machines, your gateway machine, and the network(s) used to transport the mail from us to you. * How to subscribe to and report bugs in mailing lists Send messages ABOUT these lists, such as reports of mail problems, or requests to be added or removed, to help-gnu-emacs-request (or info-gnu-request, bug-gdb-request, etc.), NOT to info-gnu-emacs (or info-gnu, etc.). These <LIST_NAME>-request addresses go only to the people who can do something about your requests or problems, and thus avoids disturbing everyone else. Note that all GNU mailing lists are maintained by volunteers. They get behind occasionally. Wait at least 3 or 4 days before asking again. Thanks! Many of the GNU mailing lists are very large being received by many people. Please don't send them anything that is not seriously important to all their readers. All GNU mailing lists are unmoderated, mail reflectors, except info-gnu, info-gnu-emacs, info-gcc and info-g++. 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It is appropriate to send these to the -request address for a list, and ask them to check the problem out. * Send Specific Requests for Information to: gnu@prep.ai.mit.edu Specific requests for information about obtaining GNU software, or GNU activities in Cambridge and elsewhere can be directed to: gnu@prep.ai.mit.edu * General Information about all lists Please keep each message under 45,000 characters. Some mailers bounce messages that are longer than this. Most of the time, when you reply to a message sent to a list, the reply should not go to the list. But most mail reading programs supply, by default, all the recipients of the original as recipients of the reply. Make a point of deleting the list address from the header when it does not belong. This prevents bothering all readers of a list, and reduces network congestion. * General Information about info-* lists These lists and their newsgroups are meant for important announcements. Most GNU projects info-* lists (and their corresponding gnu.*.announce newsgroups) are moderated to keep their content significant and relevant. If you have a bug to report, send it to the bug-* list. If you need help on something else and the help-* list exists, ask it. * General Information about help-* lists These lists (and their newsgroups) exist for anyone to ask questions about the GNU software that the list deals with. The lists are read by people who are willing to take the time to help other users. * General Information about bug-* lists and reporting program bugs If you think something is a bug in a program, it might be one; or, it might be a misunderstanding or even a feature. Before beginning to report bugs, please read the section ``Reporting Emacs Bugs'' toward the end of the GNU Emacs reference manual (or Emacs's built-in Info system) for a discussion of how and when to send in bug reports. For GNU programs other than GNU Emacs, also consult their documentation for their bug reporting procedures. Always include the version number of the GNU program, as well as the operating system and machine the program was ran on (if the program doesn't have a version number, send the date of the latest entry in the file ChangeLog). For GNU Emacs bugs, type "M-x emacs-version". A debugger backtrace of any core dump, can also be useful. Be careful to separate out hypothesis from fact! For bugs in GNU Emacs lisp, set variable debug-on-error to t, and re-enter the command(s) that cause the error message; Emacs will pop up a debug buffer if something is wrong; please include a copy of the buffer in your bug report. Please don't send in a patch without a test case to illustrate the problem the patch is supposed to fix. Sometimes the patches aren't correct or aren't the best way to do the job, and without a test case there is no way to debug an alternate fix. The purpose of reporting a bug is to enable the bug to be fixed for the sake of the whole community of users. You may or may not receive a response; the maintainers will send one if that helps them find or verify a fix. Most GNU maintainers are volunteers and all are overworked; they don't have time to help individuals and still fix the bugs and make the improvements that everyone wants. If you want help for yourself in particular, you may have to hire someone. The GNU project maintains a list of people providing such services. It is distributed with GNU Emacs in file etc/SERVICE, and can be requested >from gnu@prep.ai.mit.edu. Anything addressed to the implementors and maintainers of a GNU program via a bug-* list, should NOT be sent to the corresponding info-* or help-* list. Please DON'T post your bug reports on the gnu.* newsgroups! Mail them to bug-*@prep instead! At first sight, it seems to make no difference: anything sent to one will be propagated to the other; but if you post on the newsgroup, the information about how to reach you is lost in the message that goes on the mailing list. It can be very important to know how to reach you if there is anything in the bug report that we don't understand. Bug reports also reach the GNU maintainers quickest when they are sent to the bug-* mailing list submittal address. And please DON'T post your GNU bug reports to comp.* or other non gnu.* newsgroups, they never make it to the GNU maintainers at all. Please mail them to bug-*@prep instead! * info-gnu-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to subscribe to info-gnu ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.announce ** Send announcements to: info-gnu@prep.ai.mit.edu This list distributes progress reports on the GNU Project. It is also used by the GNU Project to ask people for various kinds of help. It is NOT for general discussion. 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Don't trust pronouncements made on gnu-misc-discuss about what GNU is, what FSF position is, what the GNU General Public License is, etc., unless they are made by someone you know is well connected with GNU and are sure the message is not forged. USENET and gnUSENET readers are expected to have read ALL the articles in news.announce.newusers before posting. If news.announce.newusers is empty at your site, wait (the articles are posted monthly), your posting isn't that urgent! Readers on the Internet can anonymous ftp these articles from wsmr-simtel20.army.mil under directory PD2:<UNIX-C.USENET>. Someone from the Free Software Foundation will attempt to follow this group as time and volume permits. Remember, "GNUs Not Unix" and "gnUSENET is Not USENET". We have higher standards! Note that sending technical questions about specific GNU software to gnu-misc-discuss is likely to be less useful than sending them to the appropriate mailing list or gnUSENET newsgroup, since more technical people read those. * bug-gnu-emacs-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to subscribe to bug-gnu-emacs ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.emacs.bug ** Gnu Emacs bug reports to: bug-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu This list distributes, to the active maintainers of GNU Emacs, bug reports and fixes for, and suggestions for improvements in GNU Emacs. It is the place to report GNU Emacs bugs by all users of GNU Emacs. Send bugs in the GNU Emacs Lisp reference manual to: lisp-manual-bugs@prep.ai.mit.edu lisp-manual-bugs is neither a mailing list nor a gnUSENET newsgroup. It's just a bug-reporting address. Subscribers to bug-gnu-emacs automatically receive all info-gnu-emacs messages. See section '* General Information about bug-* lists and reporting program bugs'. * gnu-emacs-sources-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to subscribe to gnu-emacs-sources ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.emacs.sources ** Gnu Emacs source code to: gnu-emacs-sources@prep.ai.mit.edu This list/newsgroup will be for the posting, by their authors, of lisp and C sources and patches that improve GNU Emacs. Its contents will be reviewed by FSF for inclusion in future releases of GNU Emacs. Please do NOT discuss or request source code here. Use help-gnu-emacs/gnu.emacs.help for those purposes. This allows the automatic archiving of sources posted to this list/newsgroup. Please do NOT post such sources to any other GNU mailing list (e.g help-gnu-emacs) or gnUSENET newsgroups (e.g. gnu.emacs.help). It's up to each poster to decide whether to cross-post to any non-gnUSENET newsgroup (e.g. comp.emacs or vmsnet.sources). 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This prevents the requester from getting many redundant copies and saves network bandwidth. * help-gnu-emacs-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to subscribe to help-gnu-emacs ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.emacs.help (and one-way into comp.emacs) ** Send contributions to: help-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu This list is the place for users and installers of GNU Emacs to ask for help. Please send bug reports to bug-gnu-emacs instead of posting them here. Since help-gnu-emacs a very large list, send it only those items that are seriously important to many people. If source or patches that were previously posted or a simple fix is requested in help-gnu-emacs, please mail it to the requester. Do NOT repost it. If you also want something that is requested, send mail to the requester asking him to forward it to you. This kind of traffic is best handled by e-mail, not a broadcast medium that reaches thousands of sites. This list is also gated one way to USENET's newsgroup comp.emacs (once known as net.emacs). This one-way gating is done for users whose sites get comp.emacs, but not gnu.emacs.help. Users at non-USENET sites may receive all articles from comp.emacs by making their request to: unix-emacs-request@bbn.com If Emacs crashes, or if you build Emacs following the standard procedure on a system which Emacs is supposed to work on (see etc/MACHINES) and it does not work at all, or if an editing command does not behave as it is documented to behave, this is a bug. Don't send bug reports to help-gnu-emacs (gnu.emacs.help) or post them to comp.emacs; mail them to bug-gnu-emacs instead. See section '* General Information about help-* lists'. * info-gnu-emacs-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to subscribe to info-gnu-emacs ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.emacs.announce (and one-way into comp.emacs) ** Send announcements to: info-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu This list distributes announcements and progress reports on GNU Emacs. It is NOT for general discussion; please use help-gnu-emacs for that. The list is filtered to remove items meant for info-gnu-emacs-request, that can be answered by the moderator without bothering the list, or should have been sent to another list. info-gnu-emacs is also gated one way to USENET's newsgroup comp.emacs (once known as net.emacs). This one-way gating is done for users whose sites get comp.emacs, but not gnu.emacs.announce. Users at non-USENET sites may receive all articles from comp.emacs by making their request to: unix-emacs-request@bbn.com Do not report GNU Emacs bugs to info-gnu-emacs or comp.emacs, instead mail them to bug-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu. See section '* General Information about info-* lists'. * vms-gnu-emacs-request@harvard.harvard.edu to subscribe to vms-gnu-emacs ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.emacs.vms ** Send contributions to: vms-gnu-emacs@harvard.harvard.edu *** UUCP: ..!uunet!harvard!vms-gnu-emacs-request This list was a working group who did the initial port of GNU Emacs to the VMS operating system. 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Please don't send in a patch without a test case to illustrate the problem the patch is supposed to fix. Sometimes the patches aren't correct or aren't the best way to do the job, and without a test case there is no way to debug an alternate fix. The most convenient form of test case is a piece of cpp output that can be passed directly to cc1. Preferably written in C, not C++. Subscribers to bug-gcc automatically receive all info-gcc messages. See section '* General Information about bug-* lists and reporting program bugs'. * help-gcc-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to subscribe to help-gcc ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.gcc.help ** Send contributions to: help-gcc@prep.ai.mit.edu This list is the place for users and installers of the GNU C Compiler to ask for help. If gcc crashes, or if you build gcc following the standard procedure on a system which gcc is supposed to work on (see config.gcc) and it does not work at all, or if an command line option does not behave as it is documented to behave, this is a bug. Don't send bug reports to help-gcc (gnu.gcc.help); mail them to bug-gcc instead. See section '* General Information about help-* lists'. * info-gcc-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to subscribe to info-gcc ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.gcc.announce ** Send announcements to: info-gcc@prep.ai.mit.edu This list distributes announcements and progress reports on the GNU C Compiler. It is NOT for general discussion; please use help-gcc for that. The list is filtered to remove items meant for info-gcc-request, that can be answered by the moderator without bothering the list, or should have been sent to another list. 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Please send bug reports to bug-g++ instead of posting them here. help-g++ is also gated one way to USENET's newsgroup comp.lang.c++. This one-way gating is done for users whose sites get comp.lang.c++, but not gnu.g++.help. If g++ crashes, or if you build g++ following the standard procedure on a system which g++ is supposed to work on (see config.g++) and it does not work at all, or if an command line option does not behave as it is documented to behave, this is a bug. Don't send bug reports to help-g++ (gnu.g++.help) or post them to comp.lang.c++; mail them to bug-g++ instead. See section '* General Information about help-* lists'. * info-g++-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to subscribe to info-g++ ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.g++.announce (and one-way into comp.lang.c++) ** Send announcements to: info-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu This list distributes announcements and progress reports on the GNU C++ Compiler. It is NOT for general discussion; please use help-g++ for that. The list is filtered to remove items meant for info-g++-request, that can be answered by the moderator without bothering the list, or should have been sent to another list. It is also gated one way to USENET's newsgroup comp.lang.c++. This one-way gating is done for users whose sites get comp.lang.c++, but not gnu.g++.announce. Do not report g++ bugs to info-g++ or comp.lang.c++, mail them to bug-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu instead. See section '* General Information about info-* lists'. * bug-lib-g++-request@prep.ai.mit.edu to subscribe to bug-lib-g++ ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.g++.lib.bug ** lib-g++ bug reports to: bug-lib-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu This list distributes, to the active maintainers of lib-g++ (GNU's library for C++), bug reports and fixes for, and suggestions for improvements in lib-g++. It is the place to report lib-g++ bugs by all users of lib-g++. Announcements of new releases of lib-g++ are made on both info-g++ and bug-lib-g++. 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See section '* General Information about bug-* lists and reporting program bugs'. * info-gnus-request%flab.Fujitsu.JUNET@uunet.UU.NET to subscribe ** gnUSENET newsgroup: NONE YET ** Send contributions to: info-gnus%flab.Fujitsu.JUNET@uunet.UU.NET The list is intended to exchange useful information about GNUS, such as bug reports, useful hooks, and extensions of GNUS. GNUS is an NNTP-base network news reader for GNU Emacs (which also works with a news spool). English and Japanese are the official languages of the list. GNUS is quite different than gnews. * info-gnus-english-request@cis.ohio-state.edu to subscribe ** gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.emacs.gnus ** Send contributions to: info-gnus-english@cis.ohio-state.edu The list has the same charter as info-gnus. 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