roy@sts.sts.UUCP (04/09/89)
The final vote count is: Yes, change to Zoo: 135 No, (use Zip or Arc): 43 Two votes (both no's but doesn't affect the basic result) came in late and weren't counted. Some people tried to send in a bunch of yes votes for others, but those weren't counted either. I adhered strictly to counting only one vote per message and one vote per user. I would have voted "yes", but my vote isn't counted either. All in all, this looks like a tricky issue and should be considered carefully before any change is made. Several only voted no because they weren't familiar with Zoo and didn't know that sources are easily available. Some things that need to be taken into consideration are whether or not other binaries groups use Zoo, is it or is it not appropriate to distribute binaries on Usenet with software that must be paid for to be used legally and, ultimately, is it better to use a program which is optimized for the PC for distributing PC binaries or is it better to use something portable, but not optimized so well. Keep in mind this vote is only advisory. The decision for how comp.binaries.ibm.pc will be distributed (using Zoo, Arc or Zip?) is up to Rahul. Here is a summary of NO responses (yuk, yuk): ------------------- NO NO NO NO ----------------------------------------------- From sun!UWAV1.ACS.WASHINGTON.EDU!NITECREW Sat Apr 8 19:55:39 1989 Return-Path: <sun!UWAV1.ACS.WASHINGTON.EDU!NITECREW> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 89 21:56 PDT From: ROGER KEY <sun!UWAV1.ACS.WASHINGTON.EDU!NITECREW> Subject: ZOO To: sun!roy%sts X-Vms-To: IN%"roy%sts@sun.com",NITECREW I vote NO to convert to ZOO. I have tried it and it does not compress as well and besides ZIP is not even fully implemented yet. We should wait and see how the full blown version works before overlooking it. Nitecrew From sun!esvax.Berkeley.EDU!dcdeno Sat Apr 8 19:56:20 1989 Return-Path: <sun!esvax.Berkeley.EDU!dcdeno> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 89 19:13:10 PST From: sun!esvax.Berkeley.EDU!dcdeno (D. Curtis Deno) To: sun!sts!roy To: roy@sts.sts.com From: dcdeno@esvax.berkeley.edu Re: Zoo vote I vote to not move to zoo in the immediate future. Should zoo become standard, please make every effort to post reminders on where to obtain ALL of the major compress-uncompress routines. In case he doesn't get thru in time, here is another response to my misdirected vote, earlier. -- Curt [ the vote did get through - Roy ] From claris!ames!elroy!oberon!ORION.CF.UCI.EDU!felix.uucp!giffj Sat Apr 8 19:56:28 1989 Return-Path: <claris!ames!elroy!cit-vax!oxy!ORION.CF.UCI.EDU:!oberon!felix.uucp!paris.ics.UCI.EDU:giffj!> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 89 13:18:14 pst From: "Giff W. Jaeger" <claris!ames!elroy!oberon!ORION.CF.UCI.EDU!felix.uucp!giffj> To: claris!sts!roy%apple.csnet Subject: NO vote for Zoo Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d In-Reply-To: <77800012@sts> Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA I would like to place a NO vote for zoo. I say keep things as they are. I also beleive that we should review this again in about 6 months, after Zip has been released for real, or when some other significent event happens. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Opinions only belong to those who agree with them. | | | My Company never agrees with me. Therefore... | || | |----------------------------------------------------------| |||||| | | Giff W. Jaeger | || | | FileNet Corp. 3565 Harbor Blvd., Costa Mesa, CA 92626 | || | | (714) 966-3548, (714) 966-3400 | || | | ..!{hplabs,trwrb}!fritz!giffj or giffj@felix.UUCP | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From claris!apple!claris!ames!fafhrd.lbp.harris.com!bryan Sat Apr 8 19:56:42 1989 Return-Path: <claris!apple!claris!ames!garp!bloom-beacon!unmvax.cs.unm.edu!gatech!galbp!fafhrd!bryan> To: claris!sts!roy Subject: Re: Zoo or no Organization: Lanier/Harris, Atlanta, GA Date: 23 Mar 89 10:22:31 EST (Thu) From: claris!apple!claris!ames!fafhrd.lbp.harris.com!bryan (Bryan Ivey ) > I have received no more votes on whether to convert comp.binaries.ibm.pc > to Zoo or not in the last 5 days. I intend to close off the voting as > of Sunday, March 26 and will report the results then. If anyone out there > hasn't voted yet and wants to, please do so immediately. I would prefer to remain with ARC, mainly because I have TOO many archive files now to convert. Approximately 80 Meg at the office hard drive and about 60 Meg at home on my hard drive. This does not include the eleven 32 Meg partitions of WORM cartridges that CAN'T be changed (yet). Bryan Ivey Harris / Lanier Computer R & D Senior Systems Analyst 2310 Parklake Drive bryan@fafhrd.LBP.HARRIS.COM Atlanta, GA 30345 From claris!uunet!uiucuxc!gistdev!dlp Sat Apr 8 19:58:33 1989 Return-Path: <claris!ames!lll-winken!uunet!uiucuxc!gistdev!dlp> From: claris!uunet!uiucuxc!gistdev!dlp Date: Mon, 13 Mar 89 18:51:58 -0600 Apparently-To: uiucuxc!claris!sts!roy Hi, If you're stil taking votes on the ZOO vs. ARC vs. ZIP war, my vote is to either switch to ZIP immediately, or else to wait until ZIP has been ported to Unix, and then switch to ZIP. As far as I can tell, ZIP has every feature that zoo does except that it doesn't run on an operating system which I never use for archiving/unarchiving MS-DOS files anyway. The name of the newsgroup is comp.binaries.IBM.PC, not comp.binaries.UNIX.PC, and the _best_ file archiver program that runs on IBM PC's (not UNIX PC's) should be used. ZIP is clearly better than ZOO in every respect, where it counts -- running on an IBM PC. With the files archived with ZIP, the network will save lots of _real_ _money_ in communications costs. Dirk Pellett ..!uunet!uiucuxc!gistdev!dlp From sun!clyde.ATT.COM!feg Sat Apr 8 20:03:01 1989 Return-Path: <sun!att!clyde!feg> To: att!sun!sts!roy Subject: zoo vote Date: 1 Mar 89 10:48:49 EST (Wed) From: sun!clyde.ATT.COM!feg (Forrest Gehrke) No to zoo. It would just introduce confusion in all archives around the net, as well as the confusion between Usenet and BBS. We should wait to see whether a new archiver is going to become a defacto standard before rushing into a change. Forrest Gehrke Here is a summary of YES responses: ------------------- YES YES YES YES ------------------------------------------- From claris!ames!rutgers!east.sun.com!tdinger Sat Apr 8 20:04:03 1989 Return-Path: <claris!ames!rutgers!east.sun.com!tdinger> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 89 16:24:37 EST From: claris!ames!rutgers!east.sun.com!tdinger (Tom Dinger - Sun ECD Software) To: ames!claris!sts!roy%suneast.East Subject: Zoo votes Cc: tdinger@east.sun.com Yes for ZOO! It works, basically the same sources port to different systems, it's free, it handles paths, it is supported by an Involved Person on the 'Net. It isn't perfect: its compression is not as good as some other programs, in an effort to be "backward-compatible", but the difference is small. Hope this vote isn't too late. Tom Dinger ...!suneast.sun.com!hiredgun!tdinger From claris!uunet!mcvax!hut.fi!hsu Sat Apr 8 20:04:56 1989 Return-Path: <claris!ames!lll-winken!uunet!mcvax!hut.fi!hsu> From: Heikki Suonsivu <claris!uunet!mcvax!hut.fi!hsu> To: sts!roy Date: Fri, 24 Mar 89 03:10:34 EET Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown X-Mailer: Elm [version 1.5] ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 <roy@sts.sts.com>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server) ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from kampi.hut.fi by santra.hut.fi (5.59++/7.0/TeKoLa) id AA02005; Fri, 24 Mar 89 02:32:15 +0200 Received: by kampi.hut.fi id 2180; Fri, 24 Mar 89 02:31:50 EET From: Heikki Suonsivu <hsu@hut.fi> To: roy@sts.sts.com Subject: Re: LAST CALL FOR VOTES: Zoo or no? Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d In-Reply-To: <77800012@sts> Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Message-Id: <89Mar24.023150eet.2180@kampi.hut.fi> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 89 02:31:47 EET In article <77800012@sts> you write: >I have received no more votes on whether to convert comp.binaries.ibm.pc >to Zoo or not in the last 5 days. I intend to close off the voting as Yes for Zoo. I can extract arcs but its not always fun, pkzips require lots of work as I have to copy them to pc via serial line or reboot my 386 to run dosmerge kernel. I currently store all pc stuff in compressed tars on my ct miniframe which works as my public domain archive and mail server :-) - hsu@fingate.BITNET ..!mcvax!santra!hsu Heikki Suonsivu @ 2:504/1 2:504/7 hsu@santra.hut.fi hsu@kampi.hut.fi Kuutamokatu 5 A 7/02210 Espoo/FINLAND voice +358-0-171377 fax -628948 v22bis -171558 rfmail, fidonet for unix, free. From claris!uunet!mcvax!ukc.ac.uk!rde Sat Apr 8 20:06:50 1989 Return-Path: <claris!ames!lll-winken!uunet!mcvax!ukc!rde> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 89 11:19:30 GMT From: Bob Eager <claris!uunet!mcvax!ukc.ac.uk!rde> To: sts!roy%ukc.ac.uk Subject: Vote for ZOO This is a definite vote for ZOO; it wins on portability, flexibility (directory handling etc), and also not being from SEA or PK! From sun!ranger.Sun.COM!zj8549 Sat Apr 8 20:07:13 1989 Return-Path: <sun!phri!trotter!ranger!zj8549> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 89 15:32:39 est From: SFC John Junod <sun!ranger.Sun.COM!zj8549> To: trotter!phri!sun!sts!roy Subject: A definite YES for ZOO We would really like to see zoo replace arc on usenet. Here at the United States Military Academy we have already adopted zoo as our standard. Thats around 4900 computer users and we all benefit from what comes in on Usenet. SFC John Junod NCOIC, Academic Computing Services Unitied States Military Academy West Point NY 10996 From claris!rlbrenn%watvlsi.waterloo.edu Sat Apr 8 20:08:48 1989 Return-Path: <claris!pyramid!utai!watvlsi.waterloo.edu!rlbrenn> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 89 12:19:26 EST From: Robert Brennan <claris!rlbrenn%watvlsi.waterloo.edu> To: pyramid!claris!sts!roy%ai.toronto.edu Return-Receipt-To: claris!rlbrenn%watvlsi.waterloo.edu ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To:<roy@sts.sts.com> <<< 550 (BHST) Unknown host/domain name in "roy@sts.sts.com" 550 <roy@sts.sts.com>... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from watvlsi.waterloo.edu (watvlsi) by watmath; Thu, 23 Feb 89 12:10:28 EST Received: by watvlsi.waterloo.edu; Thu, 23 Feb 89 12:10:09 EST Date: Thu, 23 Feb 89 12:10:09 EST From: Robert Brennan <rlbrenn@watvlsi.waterloo.edu> Message-Id: <8902231710.AA26424@watvlsi.waterloo.edu> To: roy@sts.sts.com Subject: Re: zoo'ed IBM-PC binaries? Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d In-Reply-To: <77800005@sts> Organization: U. of Waterloo, Ontario Cc: In article <77800005@sts> you write: > >How many people would like to see the archive format in >comp.binaries.ibm.pc changed from arc to zoo? The advantage to this >is now zoo is widely available on Unix systems (just posted on >comp.sources.unix) and you can now un-arc (un-zoo?) the "binaries" on >your host machine, look at the documentation and see if this thing >that was posted is really worth downloading to the PC. Also, if >you're sick of the PK/SEA controversy and the whole copyright mess, >this will avoid THAT "noid" (not you Ken, wherever you are!) I really >don't see any disadvantages, since zoo is also widely available for >the PC. > >So, what do you think? If there are enough "yes" votes, Rahul says he'd >be willing to switch. > > > >Roy Bixler | UUCP: ...!{claris,sun}!sts!roy >Semiconductor Test Solutions | phones: (408) 727-2885 x132 (work) >4101 Burton Dr. | (408) 289-1035 (home) >Santa Clara, CA 95054 Roy, You have a YES YES YES vote here. I have found zoo to be a very functional program on the PC. I even use it on unix (I know how to use tar but using zoo means I need to know only one system well). YES Rob Brennan (University of Waterloo, Canada) -- Robert Brennan (U of Waterloo VLSI Group, Waterloo Ont.) ...!watmath!watvlsi!rlbrenn or rlbrenn@vlsi.waterloo.cdn rlbrenn@watvlsi.waterloo.edu or rlbrenn@watvlsi.waterloo.bitnet
msmith@topaz.rutgers.edu (Mark Robert Smith) (04/10/89)
I still hold that this vote was invalid, because there was no reliable path to the vote-taker. I ended up tinkering with the supplied path, and I had no luck getting through, to my knowledge. The default path and those supplied by the vote-taker simply did not work from my site, a well-connected uucp and internet site (one step from rutgers.edu, all unresolvable mail sent there). Mark -- Mark Smith (alias Smitty) "Be careful when looking into the distance, RPO 1604; P.O. Box 5063 that you do not miss what is right under your nose." New Brunswick, NJ 08903-5063 rutgers!topaz.rutgers.edu!msmith (OK, Bob?) msmith@topaz.rutgers.edu
davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (Wm. E. Davidsen Jr) (04/10/89)
I think the discussion of going to zoo as a standard is no longer
germane. Now that the source for the lharc algorithm is out I would
expect to see a portable archiver for UNIX/DOS/AmigaDOS/ST500/Mac
shortly.
Note that the lzhuf code as distributed is NOT portable, is doesn't run
on 32 bit machines, and/or machines which don't so LSB first. Anyone
wanting my current partially fixed version may write for it. Compression
is typically 10-30% better than pkzip, and it's all freely copyable
without fee requested.
--
bill davidsen (wedu@crd.GE.COM)
{uunet | philabs}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -merfm@urth (Rich McAllister) (04/11/89)
In article <Apr.9.13.26.05.1989.1355@topaz.rutgers.edu>, msmith@topaz (Mark Robert Smith) writes: >I still hold that this vote was invalid, because there was no reliable >path to the vote-taker. This is irrelevant, unless you can show some reason to believe anti-zoo voters had more trouble than pro-zoo voters. There were lots of votes that DID get through, and the proportions seem convincing. Rich