[comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d] Telix and file transfers

hartung@amos.ling.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) (04/25/89)

Hello,

In the recent discussions about Procomm, someone mentioned Telix, so I
decided to look around for it.  I found it at SIMTEL20, so I downloaded
the files (sorry, I don't have the version handy!) and tried it out.
In many ways, I liked it quite a bit, especially as compared to
Procomm, but there were some problems with file transfers that I
encountered and I can't seem to solve them.

Because I didn't have X, Y or Z modem available here, I FTP'd the
source for X/Y/Zmodem from uunet.uu.net and compiled it.  (The problem
*might* be with sz, rz, etc. and not Telix.)  Anyhow, the first thing I
tried was downloading a small file from the VAX.  The download failed
with the Zmodem protocol, but worked fine with Xmodem and Ymodem (sx &
sb) just fine.  Kermit also failed to download.  I then tried to upload
a file, and found that Zmodem and Kermit would work, but Ymodem and
Xmodem didn't work.

Since then, I've found that there are exceptions to the above rules when only
Kermit will upload, or *nothing* will download, but if I use Kermit 2.32/A,
then the file transfers work great.  However, they also take up more than
twice the time that they would with Zmodem, which is what I really want to
use.

Is this:
	(a) A problem with Telix?
	(b) A problem with the X/Y/ZModem source code from UUNET?
	(c) A problem with the protocols themselves (i.e. this frequently
	    happens with Z-modem transfers...)?
	(d) A combination of the above?
	(e) None of the above (e.g. I'm doing something wrong, some other
	    factor is the source of my problems, etc.)

Thanks in advance for any help that anyone might have.  I'd *REALLY*
like to speed up my file transfers.  Oh, by the way, I have to use
parity set to space, 7 data bits, one stop bit, or my screen prints
garbage when I login.  Is this the problem?  Some binary files *have*
downloaded with the Y-modem protocol successfully, but others get stuck
about halfway.

 --Jeff Hartung--  	
 Disclaimer: My opinions only, etc., etc., BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!...
 ARPA - hartung@amos.ucsd.edu          
 UUCP - ucsd!amos.ucsd.edu!hartung

mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) (04/25/89)

In article <6292@sdcsvax.UCSD.Edu>, hartung@amos.ling.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes:

 >Because I didn't have X, Y or Z modem available here, I FTP'd the
 >source for X/Y/Zmodem from uunet.uu.net and compiled it.  (The problem
 >*might* be with sz, rz, etc. and not Telix.)  Anyhow, the first thing I
 >tried was downloading a small file from the VAX.  The download failed
 >with the Zmodem protocol, but worked fine with Xmodem and Ymodem (sx &
 >sb) just fine.  Kermit also failed to download.  I then tried to upload
 >a file, and found that Zmodem and Kermit would work, but Ymodem and
 >Xmodem didn't work.
...
 >Is this:
 >        (a) A problem with Telix?
 >        (b) A problem with the X/Y/ZModem source code from UUNET?
 >        (c) A problem with the protocols themselves (i.e. this frequently
 >            happens with Z-modem transfers...)?
 >        (d) A combination of the above?
 >        (e) None of the above (e.g. I'm doing something wrong, some other
 >            factor is the source of my problems, etc.)

My guess would be either (d) or (b).  Since you didn't mention a version
number, I can't be sure if you have the latest version (v3.11), which fixes
a bug in the Zmodem protocol.  If you don't have v3.11, you can probably
get it from most any IBM BBS, or, failing that, Compuserve or GEnie.
grape.ecs.clarkson.edu might have it, but it probably doesn't.

You mention that you have to use 7 data bits in order to connect.  Because
any binary protocol (other than when you use 8th bit quoting with Kermit)
needs an 8 bit data path, Zmodem will try to change the line parameters
before starting the transfer.  If the actual physical pathway is only
7 bits wide, then it won't be able to do this.  Since you say that you've
used Ymodem successfully, then I'd guess that it IS possible to switch
the connection to N-8-1.

I really don't know what more to say.  I've successfully used Telix's
Zmodem to transfer files to and from an Altos System III system (with
specially-modified versions of s[xyz] and r[xyz]), and to and from
most IBM BBSs.  One thing you might try is getting the DSZ package,
from Chuck Forsberg.  It is a standalone file transfer program that
supports Xmodem, Xmodem-1k, Ymodem, Zmodem, plus Ymodem-G and some other
stuff if you register it.  It's usually used by shelling out to DOS
from Telix (via Alt-J), and then invoking it from the command line
("DSZ sz c:/dir1/dir2/file", for example).  It installs its own 
communications drivers, does the transfer(s), and then replaces the
existing ones.  It's meant especially for use on already-established
connections.  If DSZ works and Telix doesn't, then the problem fairly
obviously lies with Telix's implimentation of Zmodem.  If neither of
the two work, then I'd start questioning the VAX sz/rz, or the
actual connection itself.  

Tell me, does (1) The file download okay, but end up as gibberish when you 
try to read it; or (2) Does the download totally fail to complete?  If it's
(1), I'd start looking into subtle bugs in the VAX sz/rz, or into the
connection itself; if it's (2), then I'd bet that you either have a corrupted
copy of Telix (unlikely; the archive would have shown the damage when you
tried to unarc it), or a buggy version of sz/rz (more likely).  Check
them both.
--  
Marc Unangst
UUCP          : mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us
UUCP bang     : ...!uunet!sharkey!mudos!mju
UUCP bang alt.: ...!{ames, rutgers}!mailrus!clip!mudos!mju
Internet      : mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us

burleigh@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (frank burleigh) (04/25/89)

As long as people are discussing Telix 3.11 file transfers, here's
another problem -- with UPloads.

Although I can reliably DOWNload files with sz/Telix 3.11, I cannot
UPload them with Telix/rz.  X and Y-modems UPloads also fail.  It's as
though they never start.

This is on an Ultrix system through an Ungermann-Bass terminal server.
BINARY is set ON (which is why downloads work).

If anyone has suggestions and similar experiences, please e-mail.

-- 
Frank Burleigh  burleigh@silver.bacs.indiana.edu
USENET: ...rutgers!iuvax!silver!burleigh BITNET: BURLEIGH@IUBACS.BITNET
Department of Sociology, Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana 47405

rwh@me.utoronto.ca (Russell Herman) (04/25/89)

You may have to play around a bit with ZMODEM.  If you're using some sort of
packet-switching, or something that interferes with reasonably real-time
flow-control, try using the "-l nnn" on sz.  I got puzzled by this one
for awhile.  Also turn on the various debugging output to generate the
szlog file;  that may give you some clues.  I'm using TELIX and ZMODEM
with complete success communicating with PC/DOS-based BBSs and a SUN3.

There's a new version out (RZSZ300) that has some very specific VMS code
which I can't vouch for as fortunately I don't have to deal with it...

  ______		Russ Herman
 /      \		INTERNET:rwh@me.utoronto.ca  UUCP:utgpu!utme!rwh
@( ?  ? )@		(416) 978-4987
 (  ||  )		University of Toronto, Dept. of Mech. Eng.
 ( \__/ )		5 King's College Road
  \____/ 		Toronto, Ont. CANADA M5S 1A4

paine@rust.dec.com (Willy Paine) (04/26/89)

Cc: 
 
I don't have no problem downloading/uploading with dsz if I login 
directly to Unix machine.  Calling Unix/VMS machine through
network from modem is a really different problem.  I notice if I do
rlogin/dlogin to another system, uploading works fine but download never
work at all.  I use rlogin alot because it has NFS (Network  File
System) and sometime one cpu is too busy so I go to another cpu.
It may sound complex.  Try to avoid using rlogin.   Getting dsz
source code is best bet because some Unix and VMS don't update
zmodem clone well.
 
Telix is my favorite but Procomm is better than Telix on vt100
emulation.  I have alot of problem with vi/emacs editor using with
Telix.
 
Willy
 

rwh@me.utoronto.ca (Russell Herman) (04/26/89)

I had similar problems, and the solution may be relevant to you as well.
Use "-l 1024" in your SZ calls.  I suspect the problem relates to not
doing flow-control in realtime when connected over a network (in my case,
a T1 link).

gejohann@uokmax.UUCP (Gene Edward Johannsen) (04/26/89)

In article <6292@sdcsvax.UCSD.Edu> hartung@amos.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes:
> {Stuff about Telix downloads failing deleted}

I had a big problem with Telix Z-modem downloads, too.  They would keep getting
TIMEOUT errors that would abort the download.  A friend of mine suggested using
'sz -w 1024 filename[s]' at the UNIX end and I haven't had a single problem
since.  Wonder why -w 1024 isn't the default.

Gene from the Home Office in Oklahoma

hartung@amos.ling.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) (04/27/89)

In article <89Apr25.225050edt.19728@me.utoronto.ca> rwh@me.utoronto.ca (Russell Herman) writes:
>I had similar problems, and the solution may be relevant to you as well.
>Use "-l 1024" in your SZ calls.  I suspect the problem relates to not
>doing flow-control in realtime when connected over a network (in my case,
>a T1 link).

Thanks, everyone, for all the help with Telix (which was version 3.11 from 
SIMTEL20, by the way).  What I had to do to get the Zmodem transfers to work 
correctly in both directions was:

	(1) Put 'stty pass8' in my .login to accept 8 bit data from the
	standard input on the VAX.

	(2) Use parity set to none with 8 data bits, one stop bit when I
	logged in from home.

	(3) Use the '-l' option with sz.  (Since it worked, I added the line:
		alias sz 'sz -l 1024 \!*'
	to my .cshrc file.)

Everything works great, now.  Thanks again.  I, too, highly recommend this
package.

 --Jeff Hartung--  	
 Disclaimer: My opinions only, etc., etc., BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!...
 ARPA - hartung@amos.ucsd.edu          
 UUCP - ucsd!amos.ucsd.edu!hartung

porter@caip.rutgers.edu (Adam Porter) (04/29/89)

Strange.  I have the reverse problem.  rz works fine between Telix on
XT and Pyramid running Berkeley 4.3.  However, I can't get sz to work.
I keep getting error, exit code 99.  Every time, I get a 'tranfer
aborted' on the PC end before any packets are transferred.  I tried
the -w and -l options, and changed stty to 2400 but no luck.  Any
ideas?

Adam

ttp@beta.lanl.gov (T T Phillips) (04/29/89)

In article <3816@silver.bacs.indiana.edu>, burleigh@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (frank burleigh) writes:
>
> Although I can reliably DOWNload files with sz/Telix 3.11, I cannot
> UPload them with Telix/rz.  X and Y-modems UPloads also fail.  It's as
> though they never start.
> 
> This is on an Ultrix system through an Ungermann-Bass terminal server.

In our setup, I connect to a VAX 7800 runing Ultrix 3.?.
However, for security reasons, we go thru a multiplexer, an
encryptor, a decryptor, an unmultiplexer, a so called keyboard
concentrator, a distributed processor server, and finally to the
VAX.  On uploads this whole system chokes on the problem of
sending long packets up followed by some kind of acknowledgement
down.  However, if I bypass our "high-speed" link, and use,
instead, a "slow" 2400 baud dial up line direct to the keyboard
concentrator, the Zmodem upload works just fine.  The moral is
don't have too much hardware between you and the host computer.