usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (12/06/89)
I just got the MIX Software C/Utilities Toolchest software installed. This package is supposed to provide a pseudo-unix environment. The manual looks very professional. It looks like a good package. However, there is a MAJOR PROBLEM!!!!! They don't produce output to stdout! After booting up the system, they work just fine. However, after I use my BRIEF editor, the C/Utilities Toolchest never again produce output. I have tried to reset the screen into every possible configuration. Nothing works. After using BRIEF, the C/Utilities Toolchest is USELESS. This is definitely a bug, and NOT a feature! I have not yet been in contact with the manufacturerer of the software. Until further notice, I STRONGLY DISCOURAGE YOU FROM BUYING THIS SOFTWARE. I paid for all of the source, so maybe I can fix the problem myself. However, I feel that I should get a good working product without having to "fix" it myself. What if I hadn't bought the source code? Why should I have to spend my time? That's why I shelled out the $56 in the first place. I feel like I got taken. In the rare case that original ideas Kenneth J. Hendrickson N8DGN are found here, I am responsible. Owen W328, E. Lansing, MI 48825 Internet: kjh@pollux.usc.edu UUCP: ...!uunet!pollux!kjh
usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (12/06/89)
The C/Utilities Toolchest from MIX Software is supposed to provide a pseudo-unix environment for MSDOS machines. I bought it, and all the source code for ~$56. There are VERY SEVERE BUGS! After using BRIEF, output from these programs no longer goes to stdout; it goes straight to the bit bucket. I have called the company, and they recommended using one of two programs that come with the package, for handling keyboard input. One of these programs also increases the size of the keyboard buffer from 16 keys to 128 keys. I tried their suggestion, and after running either one of these programs, BRIEF wouldn't take input from stdin! No more input from the keyboard! The company is sending me another version of the software. They have promised to return my money if they cannot solve my problem. They appear to have decent customer support. BOTTOM LINE: I strongly recommend against getting this package at this time. It's great software if you never need input and/or output. :-) In the rare case that original ideas Kenneth J. Hendrickson N8DGN are found here, I am responsible. Owen W328, E. Lansing, MI 48825 Internet: kjh@pollux.usc.edu UUCP: ...!uunet!pollux!kjh
kevin@kosman.UUCP (Kevin O'Gorman) (12/08/89)
In article <5678@cps3xx.UUCP> hendrick@frith.UUCP (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes: >I just got the MIX Software C/Utilities Toolchest software installed. >This package is supposed to provide a pseudo-unix environment. >The manual looks very professional. It looks like a good package. >However, there is a MAJOR PROBLEM!!!!! >They don't produce output to stdout! Hmmm? That's a bit broad given the description that follows. >After booting up the system, they work just fine. However, after I use >my BRIEF editor, the C/Utilities Toolchest never again produce output. >I have tried to reset the screen into every possible configuration. >Nothing works. After using BRIEF, the C/Utilities Toolchest is USELESS. >This is definitely a bug, and NOT a feature! > > [flaming deleted] Wait a minute. BRIEF is not a part of the Toolchest, in fact I don't know what it is. So it's as likely as the Toolchest to be the thing that has the bug. I think so partly because I also have the Toolchest, and I've been using it right along, for all sorts of stuff, to the point now that the only reason that I will even THINK about not using it is that I've gotten so used to it that I've forgotten what standard MSDOS and what's coming from the Toolchest. In other words, I think *very* highly of this product. I have never seen it do anything remotely like what you describe. In fact, since the toolchest is a collection of separate .COM and .EXE files, and they run independently when called upon, it really looks as if BRIEF has somehow modified the software environment in some way or other (I don't really know what that might be) and not restored it when done. I have no idea why the Toolchest would be more vulnerable than anything else, given how simple it is, but I would suggest it's not really the fault of the Toolchest: it just expects to be running in a standard environment. When you have found out what's actually broken, give us some more information.
usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (12/09/89)
I have found the problem with the C/Utilities Toolchest and BRIEF. The problem lies only in how the two programs interact. Both programs use memory location 004F1. BRIEF does not reset the value of this memory location when it is finished. Maybe this is a reason to fault BRIEF, but listen to this: If the C/Utilities Toolchest programs do not find the value they want in this location when the program is first invoked, they terminate without doing any useful work! I think this was rather poor software design. Memory location 004F1 is listed as being in 16 bytes of Inter-Application Communication area, for programs to transfer data or parameters between themselves.[1] I have written a small program which I can run after I run the BRIEF editor that solves this problem. You can look at it as cleaning up after BRIEF, or initialization for the C/Utilities Toolchest that they don't do themselves. I prefer to think of it as the latter. In the next couple of days, (or weeks), I will package this software and upload it to c.b.i.p, including source code. This way, anybody else who has experienced this incompatability problem can also use my solution if they want to. BRIEF is the Basic Reconfigurable Interactive Editing Facility. It is the best editor (for source code) that I have ever seen. It allows you to extend the editor as you see fit through a LISP-like language with C-like functions. It comes with the capability of compiling from inside the editor, moving immediately to any syntax errors with one keystroke, and context sensitive editing (remember LISP editors) for C (and maybe Pascal, FORTRAN, and LISP but I can't remember if I might have added these myself.) I would never dream of giving up the BRIEF editor, and I only have version 1.33. I didn't upgrade; maybe I should! The new version is probably much better. [1] Dave Williams, Programmers Technical Reference for MSDOS and the IBM PC., Shareware, 1216ref2.arc on simtel20.arpa Note: Peter Norton doesn't say anything about this location in either version of his book "Peter Norton's guide to the IBM PC" or "The NEW Peter Norton's Programmers Guide to the IBM PC & PS/2". In the rare case that original ideas Kenneth J. Hendrickson N8DGN are found here, I am responsible. Owen W328, E. Lansing, MI 48825 Internet: kjh@usc.edu UUCP: ...!uunet!usc!pollux!kjh
mbt@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Brad Turner) (12/12/89)
In article <5720@cps3xx.UUCP>, usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) writes: > I have found the problem with the C/Utilities Toolchest and BRIEF. The > problem lies only in how the two programs interact. Both programs use > memory location 004F1. > > I have written a small program which I can run after I run the BRIEF > editor that solves this problem. So have I. Between the ---cut here--- lines are the input lines to DOS debug that will create a short little program that will write 16 NULs starting at 0000:04F0, hence zeroing out the Application Communication Area. I ran into the same problems on a 3Com diskless workstation. It turns out that the Network boot service uses that area, but doesn't clean it out after boot up. I'm posting this since it is so trivial and ``source'' is included. Save this article and snip out the section between the cut here lines. Then feed the lines to DOS debug (e.g. C:\> debug < input ). This should create an executable named CLACA.COM which is 34 bytes long. Below in the ----output section---- is what debug will echo to your screen as it is running. Be forewarned!! CLACA is simple and stupid, it just zaps 16 bytes in memory. It has taken me longer to post this article that it took to create CLACA.COM. If you are running some application that expects this area to set to something special, you probably should not be running this program. enjoy, -brad- -------------cut here---------cut here---------------------------- nclaca.com e cs:0100 B8 00 00 8E D8 A3 F0 04 A3 F2 04 A3 F4 04 A3 F6 e cs:0110 04 A3 F8 04 A3 FA 04 A3 FC 04 A3 FE 04 B8 00 4C e cs:0120 CD 21 u cs:100 l 22 r bx 0000 r cx 0022 w q -------------cut here---------cut here---------------------------- ------------------output section---------------------------------- -nclaca.com -e cs:0100 B8 00 00 8E D8 A3 F0 04 A3 F2 04 A3 F4 04 A3 F6 -e cs:0110 04 A3 F8 04 A3 FA 04 A3 FC 04 A3 FE 04 B8 00 4C -e cs:0120 CD 21 -u cs:100 l 22 23BD:0100 B80000 MOV AX,0000 23BD:0103 8ED8 MOV DS,AX 23BD:0105 A3F004 MOV [04F0],AX 23BD:0108 A3F204 MOV [04F2],AX 23BD:010B A3F404 MOV [04F4],AX 23BD:010E A3F604 MOV [04F6],AX 23BD:0111 A3F804 MOV [04F8],AX 23BD:0114 A3FA04 MOV [04FA],AX 23BD:0117 A3FC04 MOV [04FC],AX 23BD:011A A3FE04 MOV [04FE],AX 23BD:011D B8004C MOV AX,4C00 23BD:0120 CD21 INT 21 -r bx BX 0000 :0000 -r cx CX 0022 :0022 -w Writing 0022 bytes -q ------------------output section---------------------------------- -- v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v Brad Turner |2081 Shoreline Blvd.|(415) 969-2099 ext 217 | I speak for myself 3Com Corp. |Mtn. View, CA 94043 |mbt@bridge2.ESD.3Com.Com| NOT for my employer
gmb@occrsh.ATT.COM (Gary_M_Brammer) (12/15/89)
I have experienced the same type of problem. I am creating some custom screens using the C Windows Toolkit I purchased with the MIX C and Utilities Toolchest. After I had a bust on one screen and got back to my DOS prompt, none of the Utilities Toolchest commands would send output to the console. But, alas, I was too tight to purchase the source and cannot debug the problem. Other than when my Windows Toolkit programs blows, the Utitlities Toolchest keeps me sane after spending 8 hrs on AT&T 3B boxs and trying to do DOS at night. Gary Brammer AT&T Network Systems att!occrsh!gmb
pja@ralph.UUCP (Pete Alleman) (12/17/89)
In article <955@occrsh.ATT.COM> gmb@occrsh.ATT.COM (Gary_M_Brammer) writes: >Toolchest. After I had a bust on one screen and got back to my DOS prompt, >none of the Utilities Toolchest commands would send output to the console. Try running uxdosint or uxdosbuf. The MIX utilities are much better behaved if either of these TSR's are running. The people at MIX were very helpful when we called them with problems. -- Pete Alleman ralph!pja