kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) (03/02/90)
I advise you not to buy Everex products. I just recently got a Seagate ST-4096 hard disk which was repackaged by Everex. The documentation which came with the disk was incorrect. The software which came with the disk has serious bugs. Following the documentation written by Everex exactly, I was unable to get the drive to work. After calling the vendor, and talking to their technical support people, I learned that the Everex documentation is wrong. They give faulty information on how to configure the jumpers on disk drives. (The correct information will follow later.) After following the instructions from the vendor tech support people, the disk worked. According to the vendor, Everex admits that their documentation is incorrect, but they won't fix it. Note: The "drive select" jumpers should be set as follows: If you have a cable with a twist in it, the DS jumpers on BOTH disks should be set to the second addressable drive. For hard disks, this is drive 2 because addressing starts with DS1; for floppy drives, this is drive 1 because addressing starts with DS0. The drive on the end of the cable with the twist will be the first of the two drives (eg. A:) and the other drive will be the second of the two drives (eg. B:). If you have a cable without a twist in it, and a single disk drive, the DS jumper should be set to the first addressable drive. For hard disks, this is DS1; for floppy drives this is DS0. Using the software provided by Everex led to other working systems in my computer becoming non-functional. After calling the vendor, and talking to their technical support people, I learned that Everex admits that their software does not work. The vendor agreed to ship me a copy of Seagate's software. I haven't received it yet, but I expect it to work just fine. Note: The specific problem I had was: when using the everex device driver "evdisk.sys", my 720k B: drive would not function correctly. You could put in a disk, do a "dir" command, switch disks, do another "dir" command, and see the directory of the first disk. You could "cd" to directories on the first disk which did not exist on the second disk which is actually in the drive. The only (hokey) way out of this problem was to force a drive read fault, to get the "Abort, Retry, or Ignore?" message. This is definitely a bug, and not a feature. (If the evdisk.sys device driver is not used, then 50M of the 80M disk is wasted under any version of DOS previous to 4.0.) Rule 1 Don't buy Everex products. Rule 2 Specify to vendors that you won't accept Everex products. Rule 3 If you buy something, and it turns out to be an Everex product, see rule 1 and rule 2. Return it. Ken Hendrickson N8DGN kjh@usc.edu ...!uunet!usc!pollux!kjh
biocca@bevb.bev.lbl.gov (Alan Biocca) (03/02/90)
In article <23188@usc.edu> kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes: > I advise you not to buy Everex products. >I just recently got a Seagate ST-4096 hard disk which was repackaged by >Everex. The documentation which came with the disk was incorrect. The >software which came with the disk has serious bugs. ....... stuff deleted ...... >Rule 1 Don't buy Everex products. >Rule 2 Specify to vendors that you won't accept Everex products. It is certainly unfortunate that there were problems with this product, and perhaps we should avoid it. It seems a bit extreme to boycott the entire manufacturer for this difficulty. I've successfully used the evdisk product with another disk drive. Perhaps there are circumstances under which it does work. Of specific interest to many here in this newsgroup are the experiences of one Ham I know who was very interested in obtaining a computer for his shack that was really compatible with his satellite operation. Since that involves very low level signal reception he was very concerned about radiation. His tests using HT's indicated that most computers and monitors had significant radiation (in spite of their FCC acceptance). He found much less radiation using the same tests on my Everex 386 Step 20. He later set up tests at an Everex dealer and ended up buying one of their 286 models. He found it to be much quieter than others he tested. A recent experience of another Ham I know who did extensive research and bought an Everex 386 Step 25 for his consulting work has been good. The hard disk died after a few weeks, unfortunately, though we cannot blame Everex for that since they didn't make it and statistically it happens. Their ONSITE WARRANTY worked well -- they Fed'exed a new drive out the next day and the technician arrived later in the afternoon to install it -- at the guy's house!! Would Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, or Heathkit do that? I have found the Everex Computers to be high quality, fast, and a good performance value for the money. Every manufacturer produces some less-excellent products, and Everex is apparently no exception. Let's not flame the whole company for one messed up product! Alan K Biocca WB6ZQZ
anderson@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) (03/02/90)
In article <23188@usc.edu> kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes: [various complaints about Everex products, broadcast to six newsgroups. If you follow up to *my* article, please edit the newsgroups line to direct your response to comp.sys.ibm.pc only.] I don't in any way take issue with the experiences Ken reports, nor with his reporting them. But I think in condemning Everex *as a whole*, he could be exposing himself to litigation. I'm not a lawyer, and free speech lets one say quite a lot. But a person making sweeping generalizations on the basis of quite specific evidence in a more limited context *might* be asking for legal trouble. I have puchased two Everex computers (1800B, AT clones) and still own one of them, and I found both to be *superior* products, by which I mean better than any other clone I could find, even before taking price into account. Of course, since then, more advanced models have come on the market, but based on my own experience I would certainly not hesitate to buy another Everex product. If I bought from another vendor and found that Everex components were used, I would consider that an asset, not a liability. So my experiences are almost diametrically opposite the ones Ken reports. Disclaimer: My employer sells true-blue IBMs and Apple Macintoshes, but I have no connection with our sales programs. My only connection with Everex is as a small-scale customer. ---
sarathy@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Rajiv Sarathy) (03/02/90)
I've owned an Everex 386/16 OEM AT (Club AT) for around 2 years, and have had absolutely NO problems with it. My friends on the other hand, who own IBM, Compaq, Packard Bell, Wyse, and others each have had at least minor problems. Just because one person has problems doesn't mean that the company is a total fraud. -- Rajiv Partha Sarathy _ _ /^\ INTERNET sarathy@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca ................ooooooooOOOO(_)(_)\_/ BITNET sarathy@utorgpu.bitnet University Of Toronto Computing Services UUCP sarathy@utgpu.uucp
darcy@druid.uucp (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) (03/02/90)
In article <23188@usc.edu> kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes: > > I advise you not to buy Everex products. > And I advise you not to take the advice of someone who doesn't know which group to post to. Yes I know he did follow-up to comp.sys.ibm.pc but that only means that those who read one of the above groups but not c.s.i.p will only see the posting of one person without seeing balancing viewpoints from others. If you are in that category then you should either completely ignore Kenneth's rantings or else subscribe to c.s.i.p. to read the whole story. BTW: I have been dealing with Everex for years without having the problems that Kenneth seems to be having. But then I know how to connect a hard drive. Maybe Kenneth should stick to buying complete systems. Follow-ups to comp.sys.ibm.pc -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain (darcy@druid) | Thank goodness we don't get all D'Arcy Cain Consulting | the government we pay for. West Hill, Ontario, Canada | (416) 281-6094 |
TRL3@psuvm.psu.edu (Tim Larson) (03/03/90)
In article <23188@usc.edu>, kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) says: > I advise you not to buy Everex products. > [justification for above statement deleted] I am not making a comment on the material in the above posting, but instead about the subject. This was cross-posted to several groups including comp. binaries.ibm.pc.d. A binaries group is a poor choice for consumer or hardware- ^^^^^^^^ only discussions. I'm not trying to be smart, it's simply in your own best interest to post articles in the most appropriate group. Cheers! -Tim Larson trl3@psuvm.bitnet
keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) (03/03/90)
In article <23188@usc.edu> kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes: > I advise you not to buy Everex products. [description of documentation problem with a repackaged hard disk drive] >Rule 1 Don't buy Everex products. > >Rule 2 Specify to vendors that you won't accept Everex products. > >Rule 3 If you buy something, and it turns out to be an Everex product, > see rule 1 and rule 2. Return it. > Geez, talk about gross over-generalizations! I specifically purchase and recommend Everex because they make good stuff. I have the benefit of outstanding vendor support, as well, but their support is good because the products they sell - Everex being a staple item in their line - are good. Just 'cuz you have one bad experience with one part of their products is hardly sufficient reason to castigate the entire product line. Everex makes outstanding computers (their STEP line is standard issue around here) and peripherals - tape backup, ega controllers, serial-parallel I/O, etc. kEITHe PS - besides "everybody knows" (ha ha) that the drives both have to be jumpered to be drive 2! Blame _that_ (and the fact that you are thereby limited to two ("who'd ever want more?!?!") hard drives in a "standard" IBM Clone) on IBM, not Everex. PPS - I buy from K.I.S. Computer Center 519 Mantague Expwy. Milpitas CA 95035 (408) 942-8088 Ask for Angie Wong - tell her I sent you
marquis@well.sf.ca.us (Roger Marquis) (03/05/90)
In article <23188@usc.edu> kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes: > >I just recently got a Seagate ST-4096 hard disk which was repackaged by >Everex. The documentation which came with the disk was incorrect. The >software which came with the disk has serious bugs. > >Following the documentation written by Everex exactly, I was unable to >get the drive to work. After calling the vendor, and talking to their >technical support people, I learned that the Everex documentation is >wrong. I would have to agree. While the quality of Everex products is very high generally their documentation is uniformly poor. It can be frustrating when a well designed and well priced product comes with inadequate documentation. You end up having to call tech support where you're put on hold for long periods of time, and maybe you'll find someone who can answer your question. Well at least, at Everex, they call you back. It would be nice if everybody had the common sense to hire skilled technical writers who knew the product. Take Sun for example. Great tech manuals. Well worth the money. Honestly, how hard can it be to find people who can write good documentation? Roger P.S. No I'm not a technical writer looking for work.
jalbert@cs.ubc.ca (Francois Jalbert) (03/05/90)
I must agree with these recent comments. The Everex RAM-3000 I bought about 2 months ago wouldn't work on my 9MHz bus speed AT. As soon as I swapped the TTL clock generator to a slower one (8 MHz bus speed), the Everex worked ok. I had looked carefully in the documentation for a potential bus speed limitation but had found none. If I had known, I sure wouldn't have bought the thing. A phone call to the local Everex importer confirmed that indeed, Everex memory board don't work for bus speed higher than 8 MHz. So he said. A phone call to Everex head office provided even less information. However, I was also told earlier models of the board would work at higher bus speeds. Somewhere, design changes took place and Everex people decided it is not worth telling us about them. Personally, I think there should be a clear indication on the box, or in the documentation of such a bus speed limitation. It's a question of honesty. I have decided to avoid ALL Everex product in the future, not because they're bad, but because of that lack of what I feel is honesty. Anybody out there with a recently purchased Everex memory board (setup as extended only) that will run on a machine with a bus speed higher than 8MHz? Francois P.S. I have never had any problem of compatibility with my 14/9 MHz AT in the past with controllers, video adapters, etc. I expect even fewer problems now that it's running at 12/8 MHz!
david@cwunxa.INS.CWRU.Edu (David Nerenberg) (03/06/90)
I have used Everex products for a few years now, and the few problems I have
had, Everex or my vendor has been more than helpful in helping me. I once
thought I had found a serious bug in their configuration software, but I
was mistaken. I had another card installed in the PC that was emulating
something it shouldn't have been. If you have had a bad experience, don't
blame the whole company. Just as in any company, they have their good
products and their bad ones. With my dealings with Everex, I have not
found "they don't want to change the manual/software" to be their attitude.
Dave
david@ins.cwru.edu * Eagle * David Nerenberg
dwn@pyrite.som.cwru.edu * Computers * Information Network Services
david@po.cwru.edu * Electronics * Case Western Reserve University
73107,177 Compuserve * Sound & Stage * 216-386-2982 216-752-2044davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (03/06/90)
In article <16518@well.sf.ca.us> marquis@well.sf.ca.us (Roger Marquis) writes: | I would have to agree. While the quality of Everex products is very | high generally their documentation is uniformly poor. Can't say if that's true or not, but someone who bought ESIX with documentation said it was much better than their usual. I note that it seems to be standard AT&T UNIX doc, which probably never got a complement before ;-) -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc "Getting old is bad, but it beats the hell out of the alternative" -anon
news@udenva.cair.du.edu (netnews) (03/06/90)
yes, the everex hard drive config info is wrong. everybodies jumper select diagrams are wrong. in fact (or at least my experience) there is no proper way to do it.you have to experiment. termination packs often do nothing. sometimes they must be on. sometimes off. twisted cable, 2nd drive select. doesn't always work. here is a question: why don't MFM controllers have bios routines?? if they did, we wouldn't have to screw with low level software. tim .