simon@ms.uky.edu (George Simon) (06/09/88)
I picked up a copy of dsz (both the exe and com versions) and got the sources for sz/rz for Unix (bsd) from simtel20. The problem is that every file transfer causes several header errors/checksum errors every time. I think after several errors it goes to a smaller block size and makes better progress, though not without errors. Does anyone out there have a working copy of both dsz & Unix sz/rz that are known to work well together? A copy of both would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Simon. <--------------------------------------------------------------------------> <--- Simon Gales@University of Ky 254-9387/257-3597 ---> <--- [ simon@ms.uky.edu ] | [ simon@UKMA.BITNET ] ---> <-------------------------------------------------------------------------->
indra@amdcad.AMD.COM (Indra K. Singhal) (06/10/88)
In article <9599@e.ms.uky.edu> simon@ms.uky.edu (Simon Gales) writes: > Does anyone out there > have a working copy of both dsz & Unix sz/rz that are known to work > well together? A copy of both would be greatly appreciated. > I compiled sz/rz on UNIX and found when ever I use it, I repeatedly get CRC (or bad block) errors at 3072 bytes and multiples of 3K. I could not explain it and have suspended using it. This happened with ZCOMM on the PC and also occurs with GT PowerComm. Explanations anyone ? -- Indra K. Singhal | | {ucbvax,decwrl,allegra}!amdcad!indra | This space for rent ! | indra@amdcad.AMD.COM | | (408) 749-5445(w) | |
w8sdz@brl-smoke.ARPA (Keith B. Petersen ) (06/10/88)
The article below offers some good advice to those having problems
with DSZ, ZCOMM or Unix Zmodem (rz/sz>.
: Path: lll-tis!oodis01!uplherc!utah-gr!stride!tahoe!adonis
: From: adonis@tahoe.unr.edu (Paul Graham)
: Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
: Subject: Re: DSZ Uploads
: Date: 7 May 88 21:12:39 GMT
:
: [old article quotes deleted]
:
: More than likely, the problem is buffering in the network. Zmodem
: is a streaming protocol, so it does not wait for a response after each
: packet is sent. This results in the networks buffers becoming overridden
: fairly quickly. (I would think that the reason it takes longer in Boneill's
: case is that his network has larger buffers.) In order to force Zmodem to
: stop and wait for a response, one must set the numeric parameter "w" to 1024
: or so (depending on the network). This tells Zmodem to stop and wait every
: 256 bytes. In order to set it to 1024 (as an example) is to include in the
: command line (before the "sz" or "rz", and after the speed and port settings)
: "z pw1024". Experiment with this number. You want the largest number that
: will allow transfers. This will be different for every network. I quote
: from the Zcomm manual in regard to this parameter:
:
: w If non 0, restrict the ZMODEM transmitted window to the
: specified number of bytes. Setting this parameter to N requests
: acknowledgements from the receiver every N/4 characters. Pro-YAM
: [Zcomm and DSZ too (my insertion)] then waits for acknowledgements
: from the receiver whenever it has sent N more characters thean it
: has received acknowledgements for. This parameter is uesful with
: networks with defective flow control, and with networks that store
: an excessive number of characters in transit.
:
: Another parameter that might be useful is the "l" parameter, described in
: the following:
:
: l If non zero, forces ZMODEM to close a frame and wait for an
: ACK after each # bytes (default 0). The frame length may be
: adjusted to prevent buffer overflow in data PBX systems.
:
: Using one of these two parameters has given me error free transfers in both
: directions through a Sytek network. This is particularly astonishing since
: the Zmodem program on the UNIX end thinks that we are at 9600 baud, when
: actually, after going through the network, things are at 1200 baud (ugh!).
: Hope this help.
:
: --
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: There are more important things to be | Derrick Hamner
: than responsible. | {backbone}!tahoe.unr.edu!adonis
--
Keith Petersen
Arpa: W8SDZ@SIMTEL20.ARPA
Uucp: {bellcore,decwrl,harvard,lll-crg,ucbvax,uw-beaver}!simtel20.arpa!w8sdz
GEnie: W8SDZwcf@psuhcx.psu.edu (Bill Fenner) (06/11/88)
In article <22019@amdcad.AMD.COM> indra@amdcad.UUCP (Indra K. Singhal) writes: |In article <9599@e.ms.uky.edu> simon@ms.uky.edu (Simon Gales) writes: |> Does anyone out there |> have a working copy of both dsz & Unix sz/rz that are known to work |> well together? A copy of both would be greatly appreciated. |> |I compiled sz/rz on UNIX and found when ever I use it, I repeatedly get |CRC (or bad block) errors at 3072 bytes and multiples of 3K. I could not |explain it and have suspended using it. | |This happened with ZCOMM on the PC and also occurs with GT PowerComm. |Explanations anyone ? No explanation here... My DSZ and sz/rz pair work just fine. I think the sz/rz are REALLY old... I just found them in a misc directory and decided to compile them... but they work great, with BinkleyTerm and with DSZ. -- __ _ _ _____ Bill Fenner Bitnet: wcf @ psuhcx.bitnet / ) // // / ' Internet: wcf @ hcx.psu.edu /--< o // // ,-/-, _ __ __ _ __ UUCP: ihnp4!psuvax1!psuhcx!wcf /___/_<_</_</_ (_/ </_/ <_/ <_</_/ (_ Fido: Sysop at 263/42
brmorrow@uokmax.UUCP (Brett Morrow) (10/18/88)
A few months ago some files came across the net for
zmodem (sz,rz). They were in an archive that had
the code that would work on a pc, unix, vms.
I erased the files. If you happen to have the archive
with that code and such, please let me know throught
EMAIL, I would like to get a cpy.
;
BRMORROW@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edubhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) (02/23/89)
Is there a ZMODEM file transfer program out there that is less 'obnoxious' than the DSZ from Omen that was recently posted to comp.binaries.ibm.pc? I'm really tired of being 'nagged' by the program to send in my 'contribution', I personaly would prefer to use a true-blue public domain program - or, if this is not available, shareware that is reasonably discreete about 'asking' for contributions. -- bhv@igloo
opsowens@sunybcs.uucp (William Owens) (02/24/89)
In article <1163@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: > >Is there a ZMODEM file transfer program out there that is less 'obnoxious' >than the DSZ from Omen that was recently posted to comp.binaries.ibm.pc? I too am looking for something (preferably PD) to do ZMODEM transfers. I didn't even run the program, I just read the docs and it was enough to turn me off... Bill. (Actually, it doesn't have to be ZMODEM; any fast file transfer that runs on Unix and MS-DOS is fine...) Bill Owens opsowens@marvin.cs.buffalo.edu opnowens@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu ........................................................................ You rotten Norman swine you...look, my knees 'ave dropped! - Bluebottle
silver@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Andy Silverman) (02/24/89)
In article <1163@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: > >Is there a ZMODEM file transfer program out there that is less 'obnoxious' >than the DSZ from Omen that was recently posted to comp.binaries.ibm.pc? >I'm really tired of being 'nagged' by the program to send in my 'contribution' Telix v3.11 has Zmodem built in. It's a full featured communications program which is also shareware. Andy Silverman Internet: silver@eniac.seas.upenn.edu CompuServe: 72261,531
keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) (02/28/89)
In article <1163@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: > >Is there a ZMODEM file transfer program out there that is less 'obnoxious' >than the DSZ from Omen that was recently posted to comp.binaries.ibm.pc? The DSZ transfer protocol is NOT free. If you are making regular use of it you deserve to send your payment to Omen Technologies and pay for what you're getting. The only thing "obnoxious" about all this is complaints that people who do (good) work shouldn't be paid. >I'm really tired of being 'nagged' by the program to send in my >'contribution', I personaly would prefer to use a true-blue public domain >program - or, if this is not available, shareware that is reasonably >discreete about 'asking' for contributions. Well, wouldn't we all! I'd like to go to the grocery store and fill up my cart full of groceries for free, too. But I don't think the store manager is 'obnoxious' because he expects my money for his groceries! keith
rainwatr@ucqais.uc.edu (Donald J. Rainwater) (03/01/89)
In article <4700@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) writes: > In article <1163@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: > >I'm really tired of being 'nagged' by the program to send in my > >'contribution', I personaly would prefer to use a true-blue public domain > >program - or, if this is not available, shareware that is reasonably > >discreete about 'asking' for contributions. > > Well, wouldn't we all! I'd like to go to the grocery store and fill up my > cart full of groceries for free, too. But I don't think the store manager > is 'obnoxious' because he expects my money for his groceries! > Indeed, store managers do expect money from you for their groceries, but they don't pop up at the end of every aisle of the store and remind you to pay! Everyone knows the possible consequences of not paying. In the case of the store, you risk being arrested and going to jail. In the case of shareware, you risk the future of shareware. If the shareware concept is not supported, then it won't be a worthwhile avenue for the authors. While the developers may feel the need to remind users to register their copy of the product, it seems a little overbearing to pop a window up every few minutes. It may be a little more appropriate (and less "obnoxious") to put the registration request window up when the program starts only. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are mine alone. The University of Cincinnati may or may not share these views. I support the shareware concept for its ability to provide low cost, high quality software to large numbers of users at low cost to the author. The above comments are NOT intended to discourage this concept in anyway. -- Don Rainwater, University of Cincinnati Computer Center rainwater@ucbeh.san.uc.edu rainwatr@ucqais.uc.edu ccondjr@ucccvm1.bitnet
bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) (03/01/89)
In article <4700@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM> keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) writes: >In article <1163@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: >> >>Is there a ZMODEM file transfer program out there that is less 'obnoxious' >>than the DSZ from Omen that was recently posted to comp.binaries.ibm.pc? > >The DSZ transfer protocol is NOT free. If you are making regular use of >it you deserve to send your payment to Omen Technologies and pay for what >you're getting. > >The only thing "obnoxious" about all this is complaints that people who do >(good) work shouldn't be paid. > >>I'm really tired of being 'nagged' by the program to send in my >>'contribution', I personaly would prefer to use a true-blue public domain >>program - or, if this is not available, shareware that is reasonably >>discreete about 'asking' for contributions. > >Well, wouldn't we all! I'd like to go to the grocery store and fill up my >cart full of groceries for free, too. But I don't think the store manager >is 'obnoxious' because he expects my money for his groceries! > >keith Let me start off by saying that when I posted this article, I had used dsz exactly _once_. That, (plus the doc's) was all I needed to get tired of the program. You say 'ZMODEM is not free'. My understanding (from reading the most recent issue of Byte) is that the ZMODEM protocol itself _is_ public domain, and its development was funded by a major modem maufacturer (I don't recall which one offhand). The DSZ documentation does refer to 'other implementations' as well. I would like to obtain one of these 'other implementations' because _I_ personally _do_ find the documenation and general attitude of the author 'obnoxious' - and I am not in an environment where the (presumed) technical merits of (presumed) 'high quality code' are important to me. I am quite willing to live with something that is a little 'buggy', but is public domain rather than blatantly commercial like DSZ. One of the reasons that I specifically dislike DSZ's commercialism is that there is a long past history of public domain communications protocols - and I would like to see these protocols remain in the public domain, and _not_ be commercialized. Just imagine the state of affairs of telecomunications if Ward Christensen had decided to copyright and commercialize 'XMODEM'. BRTW, as far as I know (which is not definite, but I could get more info if necessary), Ward Christensen has never received a dime for the concept of 'XMODEM'. -- bhv@igloo
dhesi@bsu-cs.UUCP (Rahul Dhesi) (03/01/89)
In article <1179@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.UUCP (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
...the ZMODEM protocol itself _is_ public domain, and its
development was funded by a major modem maufacturer (I don't
recall which one offhand). One of the reasons that I specifically
dislike DSZ's commercialism is that there is a long past history
of public domain communications protocols - and I would like to
see these protocols remain in the public domain, and _not_ be
commercialized.
The zmodem protocol was diesigned by the author of DSZ. He has already
released free source code for zmodem, written in C, for UNIX and
VAX/VMS. I don't think we should begrudge him trying to make a little
money from a shareware release of DSZ.
--
Rahul Dhesi UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!dhesi
ARPA: dhesi@bsu-cs.bsu.edumarty@homxc.UUCP (M.B.BRILLIANT) (03/02/89)
From article <4700@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, by keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson): > In article <1163@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: >> >>Is there a ZMODEM file transfer program out there that is less 'obnoxious' >>than the DSZ from Omen that was recently posted to comp.binaries.ibm.pc? > > The DSZ transfer protocol is NOT free. If you are making regular use of > it you deserve to send your payment to Omen Technologies and pay for what > you're getting. > > The only thing "obnoxious" about all this is complaints that people who do > (good) work shouldn't be paid. Right. But if you want to use a whole communications program without paying for it, instead of just a protocol implementation without paying for it, be advised that TELIX implements ZMODEM as an internal protocol. You will be obnoxiously reminded that you're a freeloader only once per invocation of the comm program, instead of once per upload or download. You can even make several data connections per reminder. And (if memory serves me correctly) you will be stealing $35 instead of $20. Of course, if you're already stealing a communications program, that's no big deal; you might wind up stealing less in total than you are now. In effect, and possibly also in law, using a shareware program without paying for it is a copyright violation just like using a pirated copy of a commercially distributed program. You get free use and the coyright owner gets disappointed. M. B. Brilliant Marty AT&T-BL HO 3D-520 (201) 949-1858 Home (201) 946-8147 Holmdel, NJ 07733 att!homxc!marty Disclaimer: Opinions stated herein are mine unless and until my employer explicitly claims them; then I lose all rights to them.
bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) (03/02/89)
In article <5976@bsu-cs.UUCP> dhesi@bsu-cs.UUCP (Rahul Dhesi) writes: >In article <1179@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.UUCP (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: > ...the ZMODEM protocol itself _is_ public domain, and its > development was funded by a major modem maufacturer (I don't > recall which one offhand). One of the reasons that I specifically > dislike DSZ's commercialism is that there is a long past history > of public domain communications protocols - and I would like to > see these protocols remain in the public domain, and _not_ be > commercialized. > >The zmodem protocol was diesigned by the author of DSZ. He has already >released free source code for zmodem, written in C, for UNIX and >VAX/VMS. I don't think we should begrudge him trying to make a little >money from a shareware release of DSZ. >-- >Rahul Dhesi UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!dhesi > ARPA: dhesi@bsu-cs.bsu.edu I just rechecked the Byte article, and the development of the ZMODEM protocol was not funded 'by a major modem manufacturer' - it was funded by Telenet. Yes, Forsberg (the author of DSZ) was listed as being the devoloper of the protocol. I won't fault him for trying to make more money off his work than he received from Telenet - I will fault him for the manner in which he is trying to do it. (By 'manner', I specifically mean the documentation of DSZ - not the fact of distributing a ZMODEM implemenattion by Shareware). It (the documenatation) did not sit well with me at all - it seemed much more oriented twoards fufiling the author's emotional needs than my needs as a user. I think that there is a good chance that a re-write of this documenatiton in a less emotional and more professional manner would increase the number of people willing to subscribe to the product. It would, at least, increase _my_ willingness to support the author. BTW - the 'Byte' article did not directly claim that ZMODEM was public domain. I believe this to be the case, but I have not yet seen this in writing. -- bhv@igloo
greg@dekalb.UUCP (Greg Philmon) (03/02/89)
In article <1179@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.UUCP (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: >You say 'ZMODEM is not free'. My understanding (from reading the most >recent issue of Byte) is that the ZMODEM protocol itself _is_ public domain, >and its development was funded by a major modem maufacturer (I don't recall > < ...etc... > Okay, sure, ZMODEM the _protocol_ is public domain. So that means, according to you, that any program that implements ZMODEM should also be PD? Gee, that's a wonderful concept! Let me extend that ... ASCII is public domain. Therefore, anything that uses ASCII should also be PD ?!? Omen has spent lots of time developing the ZMODEM protocol, then released it to the PD (which is necessary for any protocol to gain acceptance). But they have every right to expect payment if you choose to use their implementation. So, if the request for payment bothers you, SEND IT IN! Or, if you prefer, grab the ZMODEM specs from any BBS and _write your own_. (Which you will, I assume, release to the PD.) If you can't find these specs, I'd be happy to mail them to you. Greg Philmon gatech!dekalb!greg
bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) (03/02/89)
In article <5769@homxc.UUCP] marty@homxc.UUCP (M.B.BRILLIANT) writes: ]From article <4700@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, by keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson): ]> In article <1163@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: ]>> ]>>Is there a ZMODEM file transfer program out there that is less 'obnoxious' ]>>than the DSZ from Omen that was recently posted to comp.binaries.ibm.pc? ]> ]> The DSZ transfer protocol is NOT free. If you are making regular use of ]> it you deserve to send your payment to Omen Technologies and pay for what ]> you're getting. ]> ]> The only thing "obnoxious" about all this is complaints that people who do ]> (good) work shouldn't be paid. ] ]Right. But if you want to use a whole communications program without ]paying for it, instead of just a protocol implementation without paying ]for it, be advised that TELIX implements ZMODEM as an internal protocol. ] ]You will be obnoxiously reminded that you're a freeloader only once per ]invocation of the comm program, instead of once per upload or download. ]You can even make several data connections per reminder. ] ]And (if memory serves me correctly) you will be stealing $35 instead of ]$20. Of course, if you're already stealing a communications program, ]that's no big deal; you might wind up stealing less in total than you ]are now. I think you are missing the _entire_ point of my article. I am quite able to make my own personal decisions about both the legal AND the ethical importance of paying for shareware. I do not need your advice on this matter. Having already made my own personal decision on the matter (and, if I were truly unconcerened with the ethical implications, as you seem to imply with your postings, I would not have bothered to post), I have decided that my own sense of ethics can best be satisfied by seeking a public domain source for what I believe to be a public domain protocol which was developed for pay. Now, it is possible that I am incorrect about ZMODEM being a public domain protocol - though I sincerely believe that to be the case. It is definitely the case, though, that the original development of ZMODEM was funded by Telenet (see the February issue of Byte). -- bhv@igloo
pjh@mccc.UUCP (Pete Holsberg) (03/02/89)
In article <1179@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.UUCP (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: =In article <4700@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM> keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) writes: =>In article <1163@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: =>> =>>Is there a ZMODEM file transfer program out there that is less 'obnoxious' = =You say 'ZMODEM is not free'. My understanding (from reading the most =recent issue of Byte) is that the ZMODEM protocol itself _is_ public domain, =and its development was funded by a major modem maufacturer (I don't recall =which one offhand). The DSZ documentation does refer to 'other implementations' =as well. I would like to obtain one of these 'other implementations' because =_I_ personally _do_ find the documenation and general attitude of the =author 'obnoxious' - and I am not in an environment where the (presumed) =technical merits of (presumed) 'high quality code' are important to me. I am quite =willing to live with something that is a little 'buggy', but is public =domain rather than blatantly commercial like DSZ. One of the reasons that =I specifically dislike DSZ's commercialism is that there is a long past history =of public domain communications protocols - and I would like to see these =protocols remain in the public domain, and _not_ be commercialized. = =Just imagine the state of affairs of telecomunications if Ward Christensen =had decided to copyright and commercialize 'XMODEM'. = =BRTW, as far as I know (which is not definite, but I could get more info =if necessary), Ward Christensen has never received a dime for the concept =of 'XMODEM'. =-- =bhv@igloo You can pick up a definition of Y and ZMODEM protocols any number places and then write your own comm program. I don't understand your attitude. Have you written to the publishers of all commercial comm programs that use X, Y, and/or ZMODEM protocols complaining that they are making money from public domain code? The protocols are in PD and will always remain there. That means that Omen or Datastorm or you or I may write software that uses them, yes, even to make money. Ward has never received a nickel for the concept or the implementation of XMODEM. So what? That was his choice. Chuck Forsberg writes wonderful software and chooses to (a) shareware some and (b) sell other straight commercially. Who cares whether you like him or his attitude. If you use his software, buy it. Otherwise, don't use it and keep quiet. Pete -- Pete Holsberg UUCP: {...!rutgers!}princeton!mccc!pjh Mercer College CompuServe: 70240,334 1200 Old Trenton Road GEnie: PJHOLSBERG Trenton, NJ 08690 Voice: 1-609-586-4800
banshee@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Wailin Through The Nets) (03/03/89)
In article <1184@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.UUCP (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: >In article <5976@bsu-cs.UUCP> dhesi@bsu-cs.UUCP (Rahul Dhesi) writes: >>In article <1179@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.UUCP (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: >needs than my needs as a user. I think that there is a good chance that >a re-write of this documenatiton in a less emotional and more professional >manner would increase the number of people willing to subscribe to the >product. It would, at least, increase _my_ willingness to support the If you want emotional docs, check out flushot plus V 5.01 And if you really don't want to see dsz's annonying messages, you _COULD_ always pick up one of those PD programs designed to thwart dsz's mechanism. Anyone will write anything to keep someone else from making money from them. |========================================================================| | banshee@ucscb.UCSC.EDU | YOU TOO CAN HAVE A WONDERFUL RELATION | | banshee@ucscf.BITNET | WITH SATAN! JUST PICK UP YOUR CLOSEST | | banshee@ucscf.UCSC.EDU | PRIEST AND PHONE (666) MR SATAN. THAT | | !ucbvax!ucscc!ucscf!banshee | NUMBER AGAIN, (666) MR SATAN. CALL NOW| |-------------------------------| OPERATORS ARE STANDING BY TO TAKE YOUR | | Smail to: Banshee | SOUL TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL WHERE YOU | | UCSC, Cowell College Box 705 | WILL BURN AND WRITHE FOREVER! HAHAHAHA | | Santa Cruz, CA 95064 | --No Subliminal Messages Here | |========================================================================|
vg55611@ihuxy.ATT.COM (Gopal) (03/04/89)
In article <1186@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.UUCP (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: [stuff deleted] > >I think you are missing the _entire_ point of my article. I am quite able >to make my own personal decisions about both the legal AND the ethical >importance of paying for shareware. I do not need your advice on this >matter. Having already made my own personal decision on the matter >(and, if I were truly unconcerened with the ethical implications, as you >seem to imply with your postings, I would not have bothered to post), I have >decided that my own sense of ethics can best be satisfied by seeking a >public domain source for what I believe to be a public domain protocol >which was developed for pay. Now, it is possible that I am incorrect about >ZMODEM being a public domain protocol - though I sincerely believe that >to be the case. It is definitely the case, though, that the original >development of ZMODEM was funded by Telenet (see the February issue of >Byte). >bhv@igloo I'd like to point out that whether DSZ protocol is public domain or not is irrelevant to the question of whether you should pay for DSZ. There seems to be some kind of assumption here that when you pay for DSZ you are paying for the ZMODEM protocol. I think this is not true. You are paying for the software development effort that went into implemementing this protocol i.e. you are paying for the code, not the protocol. There are other programs that implement ZMODEM, and many other protocols, that are also shareware, most of these programs are more than just a protocol. Juz my 2 cents worth. Venu P. Gopal UUCP: att!ihuxy!vg55611 Internet: vg55611@ihuxy.att.com BITNET: com%"vg55611@ihuxy.att.com" or com%"vg55611%ihuxy@research.att.com" Save 500 million keystrokes a day; silence those silent letters forever.
jhom@umbio.MIAMI.EDU (Joe Homrighausen) (03/04/89)
I don't understand all the fuzz about Zmodem that's been going on lately. If people are having problems with Chuck Forsberg (and Omen Technology) making money out of it I think they should re-consider. As far as I'm concerned the discussion is irrelevant the subject is getting quite boring. Chuck Forsberg did a wonderful job on getting around problems that most other asynchronous protocols have, it works nicely on packet switching networks (for which it was originally implemented). I've implemented Zmodem in a product we're selling commercially, as many other developers has and the fact that it's avaialble on quite a few Unix systems is nice to see (I'd take Zmodem over Kermit, any day). The protocol is what I'd call a programmer's dream situation. There's nothing that prevents anyone from expanding or customizing the protocol to his/her own needs without breaking existing standards. Whatever Chuck Forsberg (and Omen Technology) wants to do with it, or whatever they (he) are doing with it is up to them.
larryg@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Larry Gilbert) (03/04/89)
Let me steer completely clear of the big shareware/PD debate that has shared this subject line and say, yes, there *is* a public-domain implementation of Zmodem for MS-DOS. It's called PcConnect Zmodem, and it's written by Drue Kennon and Gary Smith. I have it in an archive called PCZ0115.ARC, which I believe I pulled off of Simtel. Quoting from the documentation, "It is a fully-featured version of Zmodem, but does not have the professional and commercial polish of a program like Omen Tech's DSZ. However we do believe that it will be suitable for the average BBS hacker." Or Unix hacker, I presume. :-) For those few who have access to a FidoNet system, PCZ0115.ARC can be automatically requested from my system at 1:152/201. Otherwise try an ftp to wsmr-simtel20.army.mil. (NOTE: I have not actually used this program, so I have no idea how it works. Just wanted to point out that it's available...) -- Larry Gilbert, larryg@jacobs.cs.orst.edu, 1:152/201, +1 503 753 3511 (bbs) "It's all in a day's work for Bicycle Repairman. <snort>"
bobmon@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (RAMontante) (03/04/89)
vg55611@ihuxy.UUCP (55611-Gopal,V.P.) <2880@ihuxy.ATT.COM> : - -I'd like to point out that whether DSZ protocol is public domain or not -is irrelevant to the question of whether you should pay for DSZ. There -seems to be some kind of assumption here that when you pay for DSZ you -are paying for the ZMODEM protocol. I think this is not true. You are -paying for the software development effort that went into implemementing -this protocol i.e. you are paying for the code, not the protocol. There Indeed. There are other programs that provide zmodem, and its predecessors ymodem and xmodem. Procomm, for example, does a very nice job with ymodem. I registered DSZ nonetheless, not because it "gives me zmodem", but because this implementation has been a particularly reliable and well-done program. Even when it falls back to ymodem it works better than Procomm's implemen- tation, and Procomm isn't bad (IMHO). Meanwhile Bronis Vidugiris complains (essentially) that the DSZ commercial is too obnoxious. Well, okay, but I've seen much much _more_ obnoxious and obtrusive commercials in shareware. When used as intended, that is as a file-transfer add-on to a terminal program (it doesn't claim to be a great terminal emulator), you get the commercial AFTER it has done its job -- most shareware gives you the commercial before you ever get to see it in action. As for the documentation, yes it does start off a bit preachy. (So does the Procomm manual. Also, ndmake makes a pitch; list has a pitch....) Once you get past that you have a very detailed, dense manual, with some of the same incomprehensibility that I know and love in UNIX documentation. You are certainly justified in seeking a free implementation of the zmodem protocol if you don't like DSZ. But it seems a bit churlish to condemn Forsberg for a shareware commercial that is in fact quite mild compared to the obtrusive, partially-crippled things that often turn up on BBS'es. -- Those who do not understand MSDOS are | Bob Montante (bobmon@cs.indiana.edu) condemned to write glowingly of it in | Computer Science Department slick, short-lived magazines. | Indiana University, Bloomington IN
bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) (03/05/89)
In article <634@mccc.UUCP= pjh@mccc.UUCP (Pete Holsberg) writes: =In article <1179@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.UUCP (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: ==In article <4700@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM> keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) writes: ==>In article <1163@igloo.Scum.COM> bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: ==>> ==>>Is there a ZMODEM file transfer program out there that is less 'obnoxious' == =You can pick up a definition of Y and ZMODEM protocols any number places =and then write your own comm program. =I don't understand your attitude. Have you written to the publishers of =all commercial comm programs that use X, Y, and/or ZMODEM protocols =complaining that they are making money from public domain code? The =protocols are in PD and will always remain there. That means that Omen =or Datastorm or you or I may write software that uses them, yes, even to =make money. =Ward has never received a nickel for the concept or the implementation =Chuck Forsberg writes wonderful software and chooses to (a) shareware =some and (b) sell other straight commercially. Who cares whether you =like him or his attitude. If you use his software, buy it. Otherwise, =don't use it and keep quiet. I'm sorry you don't understand my attitude. I don't have any objection to Forsberg, or anyone else writing shareware software. I don't even have any objection to them posting shareware to usenet (though some people do). I do have objections to shareware which 'preaches' at me - especially when it seems to me to be misleading. (I'm still not 100% positive of the legal status of the ZMODEM protocol - though I believe as you do that it is public domain, it seems to me that several posters have gotten the impression that it is a proprietary product of Omen technologies. I suspect they have gotten this impression by reading the DSZ documentation). I have chosen (in this particular instance) not to be quiet about my dislike, but to post it. You don't have to care about my opinions if you don't want to - *(obviously). I have recieved some feedback from other people who feel somewhat like I do about the docs, a few useful suggestions for other comm. programs, a few polite{_ disagreements with my opinions, and a number of rather rude 'flame' type postings like yours as a result of my posting. Rather what I expected. I don't understand why you think I should 'not use the software and keep quiet'. Why should I keep quiet? Especially if I am looking for software to replace something I don't like. My dis ? -- bhv@igloo
bhv@igloo.Scum.COM (Bronis Vidugiris) (03/05/89)
In an article whose reference I've unfortunately deleted, somebody says:
=Omen has spent lots of time developing the ZMODEM protocol, then released it
=to the PD (which is necessary for any protocol to gain acceptance). But they
=have every right to expect payment if you choose to use their implementation.
=
=So, if the request for payment bothers you, SEND IT IN! Or, if you prefer,
=grab the ZMODEM specs from any BBS and _write your own_. (Which you will,
=I assume, release to the PD.) If you can't find these specs, I'd be happy
=to mail them to you.
=
I don't feel like paying for DSZ, because of the problem I have with the
documentation. I agree that the author has a right TO THE SPECIFIC CODE he
wrote - that's why I am looking for another implementation of the
protocol. As a last resort, yes, I might well write my own implementation
of the protocol (and even post it to usenet) - but it seems likely to me
that this has already been done by someone else. Why waste a lot of
time re-inventing the wheel? Logically, it seems to me looking around for
another implementation (preferably, public domain{) is the right thing
for me to do.
--
bhv@igloobobmon@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (RAMontante) (03/06/89)
There has been some question about the status of the zmodem file transfer protocol (not to be confused with any program implementing it!). Let me reprint Chuck Forsberg's own statements, from his zmodem.doc description. [ start quote ] ZMODEM was developed for the public domain under a Telenet contract. The ZMODEM protocol descriptions and the Unix rz/sz program source code are public domain. No licensing, trademark, or copyright restrictions apply to the use of the protocol, the Unix rz/sz source code and the ZMODEM name. 4. EVOLUTION OF ZMODEM In early 1986, Telenet funded a project to develop an improved public domain application to application file transfer protocol. This protocol would alleviate the throughput problems network customers were experiencing with XMODEM and Kermit file transfers. [ end quote ] I have to admit that it isn't exactly EASY to find this -- Forsberg does get kind of prolix. I think I got it as part of the dsz package, but you have to read 7 pages of discussion about the limitations of xmodem and ymodem before getting to this stuff on zmodem. Fascinating for trivia buffs. -- Those who do not understand MSDOS are | Bob Montante (bobmon@cs.indiana.edu) condemned to write glowingly of it in | Computer Science Department slick, short-lived magazines. | Indiana University, Bloomington IN
rusek@pilot.njin.net (Robert John Rusek) (06/06/90)
Hi, does anyone out there know if there is a version of the zmodem protacol written for the pc? If you do can you please let me know where I can get a hold of it. It can be source code, i will compile it. Please if anyone can help me send me e-mail. Thanks Robert John Rusek rusek@pilot.njin.net rusek@njin.BITNET rusek%fdumad.fdu.edu@pilot.njin.net rusek%fdumad.fdu.edu@njin.BITNET -- Robert John Rusek rusek@pilot.njin.net rusek@njin.BITNET rusek%fdumad.fdu.edu@pilot.njin.net rusek%fdumad.fdu.edu@njin.BITNET
bianco@cs.odu.edu (David J. Bianco) (06/07/90)
In article <Jun.6.00.12.34.1990.27724@pilot.njin.net> rusek@pilot.njin.net (Robert John Rusek) writes:
Hi, does anyone out there know if there is a version of the zmodem
protacol written for the pc? If you do can you please let me know
where I can get a hold of it. It can be source code, i will compile
it. Please if anyone can help me send me e-mail.
Well, it would probably be easier to get a copy of a terminal program
that includes Zmodem (almost all do....Telix, Qmodem, Telemate, etc).
You can get it standalone too...look for DSZxxx.ZIP/ARC/LZH. DSZ zmodem
is more or less the standard for PC zmodem....its by omen technologies,
the same as the one thats here on the Unix systems. Simtel mirror sites
should have it.
--
------------------------
So sayeth me! Internet: bianco@cs.odu.edu
No disclaimer, these aren't opinions, they're *facts*.
"Madness is to think of too many things in succession
too fast or of one thing too exclusively."
-- Voltaire
Gee, didnt think they had computers back then! 8Dvisjames@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Larry James (WNYCUG)) (12/29/90)
I saw the references to Zmodem here. I have used it extensively on PC-PC transfers, and I have the Unix/VMS source to it. My local VAX decided to be kermit only, so I need instructions to compile and use Zmodem under VMS. I am a C programmer but I know very little about VMS, so please give me detailed instructions. Thanks. Just another day in the life........
w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Keith Petersen) (12/29/90)
RZ/SZ (Zmodem) for VMS, already compiled and ready to run, is available as RZSZ.TLB in directory pd1:<misc.vaxvms> on SIMTEL20. To learn how to extract files from a Text LiBrary do HELP LIBRARY on your VMS host. This is a binary file so be to use the TENEX or TYPE L 8 mode when transferring it with ftp. Keith -- Keith Petersen Maintainer of SIMTEL20's MSDOS, MISC & CP/M archives [IP address 26.2.0.74] Internet: w8sdz@WSMR-SIMTEL20.Army.Mil or w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND
roelofs@nas.nasa.gov (Cave Newt) (01/01/91)
w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Keith Petersen) writes: >RZ/SZ (Zmodem) for VMS, already compiled and ready to run, is >available as RZSZ.TLB in directory pd1:<misc.vaxvms> on SIMTEL20. One small drawback to this version is that it won't work with third-party (i.e., non-Omen Technlogies) zmodem programs. I believe that one of the Unix directories on Simtel still contains rzsz0525.arc (that's 5/25/89: old, but PDQ nonetheless, and it's not so fussy about the other end of the connection). This is Unix/VMS source for the program, along with simple instructions for compiling it. It doesn't allow for wildcards under VMS, but there is a patch available which provides this function via some very nice public domain routines originally supplied by DECUS. Greg
w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Keith Petersen) (01/02/91)
roelofs@amelia.nas.nasa.gov writes: >Unix directories on Simtel still contains rzsz0525.arc (that's 5/25/89: It's newer than that. It was released in Feburary 1990. pd1:<misc.zmodem> RZSZ9002.ARC ZMODEM for Unix & VAX/VMS, C language source You may wish to look at this one. I believe it has wild card support for VMS. If your VMS host doesn't have ARC you can get the individual source code files from this directory. Unix users can get RZSZ9002.TAR-Z from directory pd1:<misc.unix>. This is a compressed tar file. Keith -- Keith Petersen Maintainer of SIMTEL20's MSDOS, MISC & CP/M archives [IP address 26.2.0.74] Internet: w8sdz@WSMR-SIMTEL20.Army.Mil or w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND
theall@rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu (George A. Theall) (01/02/91)
In article <4496@vela.acs.oakland.edu> w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Keith Petersen) writes: >roelofs@amelia.nas.nasa.gov writes: >>Unix directories on Simtel still contains rzsz0525.arc (that's 5/25/89: > >It's newer than that. It was released in Feburary 1990. > >pd1:<misc.zmodem> >RZSZ9002.ARC ZMODEM for Unix & VAX/VMS, C language source Does this version offer any of the ZMODEM-90 enhancements such as those found in recent releases of DSZ? I understand these are required for operation in 7-bit environments such as the local network here. George --- theall@rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu Dept. of Economics theall@ssctemp.sas.upenn.edu Univ. of Pennsylvania gtheall@penndrls.upenn.edu Philadelphia, PA 19104