kgowen@cie.uoregon.edu (Kevin Gowen) (01/04/91)
Does a shareware/PD msdos implementation of LOGO exist, and if so, is there an ftp site I can grab it from? I want to get my son started on learning basic computer stuff. You can post here or e-mail. Thanks. -kevin kgowen@cie.uoregon.edu
nelson@sgi.com (Nelson Bolyard) (01/05/91)
In article <1991Jan4.012130.23060@ariel.unm.edu> kgowen@cie.uoregon.edu (Kevin Gowen) writes: > >Does a shareware/PD msdos implementation of LOGO exist, and if so, is there >an ftp site I can grab it from? I want to get my son started on learning >basic computer stuff. > >You can post here or e-mail. Thanks. > >-kevin >kgowen@cie.uoregon.edu There is a shareware program called Ladybug that is an implementation of LOGO for the IBM PC. It asks you to choose CGA or monochrome graphics (Hercules, I think). I picked it up off a BBS in Chicago called Discovery Place BBS a few years ago. I believe that BBS has subsequently gone off the air. In its original form, it would only run on the original IBM PC. In several places throughout the code, it would compute a checksum on the system ROM, and if it didn't match the value coded in, Ladybug would then throw you out to the DOS prompt. I went trough and removed all those checksum checks, and have been using it on my clone(s) ever since. I tried to give my fixed version back to Discovery Place BBS, but the phone went unanswered when I tried. It has only one known bug. When a command (such as forward) causes the turtle to draw off the screen, the turtle should move to a place off the screen, and the line drawn should be the portion of the true line, clipped to fit in the screen's "window". Unfortunately, when the turtle moves off the screen, Ladybug draws a clipped line from the starting point to some random off screen location, so it is necessary to ensure that the turtle never goes off the screen to get good looking results. I have found that this bug is more serious that you might think. Children can get very excited about seeing their creations come to life on the screen. But if and when the program does the right thing, it is very discouraging, and if Daddy can't make it right, kids may give up! There are umpteen variations on LOGO, and this is yet another. I have found that it is close enough to the Commodore 64 LOGO that I have been able to use Workbooks for C64 LOGO to teach Logo to my children. Ladybug comes with a set of ".BUG" files that contain lots of Logo words (routines). Ladybug is the most LISP-like version of LOGO that I've seen, which IMHO is a good thing. I am convinced that LOGO is the right first language for children of all ages. One gets immediate feedback from an interpretive language, and its graphical nature is much more interesting than text for children. Its highly structured nature is perfect for teaching good programming approaches to beginners. (enough religion here). No support for this software is available from the author. I believe it was subsequently turned into one of the expensive commercial products. The author says that a "contribution of $35 dollars would be appreciated" but doesn't demand it, so I wouldn't feel bad about posting it to CBIP. I don't know if our moderator would accept it (perhaps he can write me and tell me). I am willing to make a .ZIP file containing Ladybug and all the .BUG files and mail a uuencoded version to any requestors. If I get more than about ten requests, I'll seriously try to send it to CBIP instead of mailing out zillions of copies. Send e-mail to one of the addresses in my signature below. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nelson Bolyard nelson@sgi.COM {decwrl,sun}!sgi!whizzer!nelson Disclaimer: Views expressed herein do not represent the views of my employer. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
davemill@cbnewsd.att.com (d.m.miller) (01/05/91)
Kevin,
In 1988, I was looking for a shareware LOGO to start my children
programming. I did not find anything. At the time, my daughter was in
a LOGO summer class for gifted students. Their class used Logowriter by
LCSI on Apple computers. At home, we only had a PC.
To make a long story short, I called the company, found that they did
have an MS-DOS version, and would sell a home version for $160, plus
about $20 for a set of work books. I bought it. The program, manual
and work books, are of excellent quality. It only requires CGA. If you
have EGA or VGA, you get CGA graphics with 16 colors rather than 4.
I have also received news letters and LSCI catalogues regularly. To
contact LCSI, you can call 1-800-321-LOGO. I see in the latest catalog,
the price for a single disk and the class room materials is now
$199. There are many other programs related to LOGO in the catalog,
including LEGO (as in building blocks) with LOGO. It looks like a great
toy to me, but I have not used it. The LSCI products are geared toword
school systems and teachers.
/* The following belongs in net.forsale.
My apologies if posting it here offends anyone. */
My children no longer use the LogoWriter program at home. I will sell
it all for $90, half of what I paid including the work books. It is the
English Version 2.0 for MS-DOS. It includes the original disk,
reference manual, 6 work books, and the teacher's manual.
Send e-mail to att!ihlpf!dave, or call me at 708-979-3791 if anyone is
intersted.
Dave Miller AT&T Bell Laboratories ihlpf!davehartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) (01/06/91)
>In article <1991Jan4.012130.23060@ariel.unm.edu> kgowen@cie.uoregon.edu >(Kevin Gowen) writes: >> >>Does a shareware/PD msdos implementation of LOGO exist, and if so, is there >>an ftp site I can grab it from? I want to get my son started on learning >>basic computer stuff. In article <1991Jan5.040106.26512@odin.corp.sgi.com> nelson@sgi.com (Nelson Bolyard) writes: >There is a shareware program called Ladybug that is an implementation of >LOGO for the IBM PC. It asks you to choose CGA or monochrome graphics >(Hercules, I think). I picked it up off a BBS in Chicago called Discovery >Place BBS a few years ago. I believe that BBS has subsequently gone off >the air. I have uploaded LADYBUG to wuarchive.wustl.edu, and I sent copies to Keith for SIMTEL-20 and to Bill for c.b.i.p. The copies that I put on wuarchive are in the /pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS directory. I don't know about the reported bug, but I ran LADYBUG (this is version 1.0e, I believe) on a Packard Bell XT clone with an ATI Graphic Solution card with no problem whatsoever. Anyhow, it is available, for those who want it. I originally downloaded it from Compu$erve, after considerable searching of the anonymous ftp sites and BBS's I knew of. (BTW the Discovery Place BBS supposedly moved to Colorado about a year ago or so. The SysOp was going to announce the new phone number in misc.kids, but I got tired of wading through all those "Where can I find good books on toilet training for my 2 year old?" messages, so I never saw the new number. -- --Jeff Hartung-- Disclaimer: My opinions only, etc., etc., BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!... InterNet - hartung@crl.ucsd.edu or ps299bx@igrad1.ucsd.edu UUCP - ucsd!crl.ucsd.edu!hartung BITNET - hartung@ucsd
nelson@sgi.com (Nelson Bolyard) (01/09/91)
In article <15229@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes: [...] > >I have uploaded LADYBUG to wuarchive.wustl.edu, and I sent copies to Keith for >SIMTEL-20 and to Bill for c.b.i.p. The copies that I put on wuarchive are in >the /pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS directory. I don't know about the reported bug, but I >ran LADYBUG (this is version 1.0e, I believe) on a Packard Bell XT clone with >an ATI Graphic Solution card with no problem whatsoever. Anyhow, it is >available, for those who want it. I originally downloaded it from Compu$erve, >after considerable searching of the anonymous ftp sites and BBS's I knew of. I downloaded this version of Ladybug and tested it. I have good news and bad news. First the good news: The version of Ladybug posted to wuarchive is several months newer than the version I had (which was version 0.8 or 0.9, I forget which). The newer version has fixed all the bugs which I found in the old version. The clipping bug I mentioned in my original posting seems to be fixed now. Functions return values correctly. The NODRAW command works now, and printing of lists seems to work correctly. There are several new commands and features. All in all, the package is improved. So I sent the newer version of Ladybug to those who replied to my original posting. The bad news: Most of the .BUG files that come with the new LOGO are BUGgy. Many of them do not run at all. I spent a few hours last night and went through and fixed many of them. When I get them all working, I will send them to our Moderator for posting. The buggy .BUG files seem to be in categories: (1) files that once worked but somebody played with (DEMO*.BUG). (2) somebody started to write a program but gave up in the middle (MAZE.BUG), and (3) Logo prgoram typed in from some incompatible version of LOGO that were never "ported" to run with Ladybug (e.g. CRAB.BUG). The DEMO*.BUG files are a very nice demo, once they're fixed. <To our Moderator: I respectfully suggest you hold off posting the version of Ladybug which has already been sent to you for posting until I send you the corrected sample LOGO programs (.BUG files). <To lmiller@cbnewsj.att.com: I tried to mail ladybug to you, but my reply bounced at cbnewsj. Please mail me another email address for yourself if you want ladybug. >(BTW the Discovery Place BBS supposedly moved to Colorado about a year ago or >so. The SysOp was going to announce the new phone number in misc.kids, but I >got tired of wading through all those "Where can I find good books on toilet >training for my 2 year old?" messages, so I never saw the new number. If anybody knows the new phone number of the Discover Place BBS, PLEASE reply to this posting with a mail message to me containing the new phone number. Thanks! >-- > --Jeff Hartung-- > Disclaimer: My opinions only, etc., etc., BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!... > InterNet - hartung@crl.ucsd.edu or ps299bx@igrad1.ucsd.edu > UUCP - ucsd!crl.ucsd.edu!hartung BITNET - hartung@ucsd ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nelson Bolyard nelson@sgi.COM {decwrl,sun}!sgi!whizzer!nelson Disclaimer: Views expressed herein do not represent the views of my employer. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------