storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) (01/25/91)
I recently installed QEMM 5.11 on my machine, and ran into some troubles with windows 3.0... I decided to remove the EMM, because windows would crash every time I tried to run more than one task. Now, all of a sudden, I get three or four OUT OF ENVIRONMENT SPACE errors every time I get on. What is causing these, and how do I fix them...? ./*-
mpledger@cti1.UUCP (Mark Pledger) (01/25/91)
storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) writes: >I recently installed QEMM 5.11 on my machine, and ran into some troubles >with windows 3.0... I decided to remove the EMM, because windows would >crash every time I tried to run more than one task. >Now, all of a sudden, I get three or four OUT OF ENVIRONMENT SPACE errors >every time I get on. >What is causing these, and how do I fix them...? I read about this problem last year in PC Week. The problem stems from Microsoft not using the LIM 4.0 standard that QEMM and others support. Therefore Windows 3.0 users cannot use QEMM. I also read however that Microsoft was going to send out a patch to their memory manager to allow Windows 3.0 to work with QEMM. I do not know if it's available or was ever made public. As far as your OUT OF ENVIRONMENT SPACE errors, I would increase the environment space in your config.sys file and try it again. To change the environment space, add or modify a text line similar to: shell=c:\command.com /P /E:1024 The /E parameter sets the amount of environment space (in bytes). Please don't forget to read the Windows manuals. I know it has a number of configuration files when you set up the Windows environment under DOS. If there are any Windows experts out there, please speak up! Hope this helps. -- Sincerely, Mark Pledger -------------------------------------------------------------------------- CTI | (703) 685-5434 [voice] 2121 Crystal Drive | (703) 685-7022 [fax] Suite 103 | Arlington, VA 22202 | mpledger@cti.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------
storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) (01/26/91)
In response to the reply from mpledger@ctl.uucp (Mark Pledger): Thank you for the help you gave. I have reinstalled the SHELL line in the config.sys file, and everything seems to be working again fine. I was aware of the problems with Windows and it's EMM. In the manual, all I could find was their instructions on how to use their EMM386.sys file, but when I installed this, Borland's EMSTEST.EXE would spit in my face and tell me I didna' have any EM installed. There IS a document on using QEMM 5.11 with it's Win3.0 support, but I still am looking for it. Thanks for the help. ./*-
ralphs@sumax.seattleu.edu (Ralph Sims) (01/26/91)
storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) writes: > There IS a document on using QEMM 5.11 with it's Win3.0 support, but I still > am looking for it. It should be in the update manual. Here's a couple of things that may help: ID:W3 Windows 3.0 with DESQview and QEMM-386 Quarterdeck Technical Note by Stan Young WINDOWS 3.0 If you are planning to run Windows 3.0 with our DESQview, DESQview 386 and/or QEMM-386 products, Quarterdeck recommends that you upgrade to the versions of these products which specifically support Windows 3.0. These versions are: DESQview 2.3 (or above) DESQview 386 2.3 (or above) QEMM-386 5.1 (or above) Upgrade notices will be going out to registered users of Quarterdeck products starting 8/28/90. RUNNING WINDOWS 3.0 WITH EARLIER VERSIONS It is possible to run Windows 3.0 with earlier versions of Quarterdeck products only in Real mode, not in Standard or Enhanced modes. If you are running with a version of QEMM-386 prior to 5.1, you must be sure to use the RAM parameter and also make the following additions to the Windows SYSTEM.INI file, after the line which reads "[386Enh]": [386Enh] DualDisplay=True EMMExclude=E000-EFFF These changes to the SYSTEM.INI file prevent Windows 3.0 from disrupting the high memory management of QEMM-386. These changes can be retained when you upgrade to QEMM-386 v5.1, but they are not required with the upgrade. If you are running Windows 3.0 in DESQview 386 versions prior to 2.3, it must run full-screen and not virtualized, due to mouse and video problems. Even if you are planning to run Window 3.0 ONLY in Real mode, an upgrade to the current versions of DESQview and QEMM-386 is recommended. DESQview v2.3 AND ABOVE WITH WINDOWS 3.0 ON A 286 On 80286 machines, Windows 3.0 requires a special loader program to operate in Standard mode inside DESQview 2.3 and above. The loader (W3-LOAD.COM) is provided on the DESQview disk and is invoked when you run Windows 3.0 from the "MS Windows 3 Std." selection which is added to your Open Window menu by Add a Program. The loader is not required when running in DESQview 386. It is included only for consistency with what is shipped in the standard DESQview package. To run Windows 3.0 in Standard mode on a 286, you must have a minimum of 1MB of real extended memory. If all of your memory currently is configured as expanded, you may have to reconfigure some as extended. Most Windows applications, even those which specifically support Windows 3.0 can run in Real mode, so unless you have applications which require Standard mode, you may wish to leave your memory configured as expanded memory. DESQview 386 v2.3 AND ABOVE WITH WINDOWS 3.0 DESQview 386 2.3 and above support Windows 3.0, both in Real mode and Standard mode. This support is completely automatic, requiring no special loaders or parameters as long as QEMM-386 v5.10 or above is used as the memory manager. Real Mode Support: Install the "MS Windows 3 Real" selection from Add a Program. Running in Real mode, Windows 3.0 runs like any other large graphics program. Windows in this mode can be run in a small window and in the background. Standard Mode Support: Install the "MS Windows 3 Std." selection from Add a Program. Running in Standard mode, Windows 3.0 will run in the foreground. However, since it writes directly to the screen in protected mode, the screen cannot be virtualized. Therefore, the "MS Windows 3 Std." installation defaults to run full-screen only and only in foreground. 386 Enhanced Mode: Windows 3.0 386 Enhanced mode is not supported inside DESQview 386. This should not be a major restriction, since currently anticipated Windows 3.0 applications are expected to support either Real or Standard mode. One of the primary features of 386 Enhanced mode is multitasking support for standard DOS applications. This can be obtained by running your DOS applications in their own DESQview windows. 386 Enhanced mode is supported by QEMM-386 when running outside of DESQview 386. USING QEMM-386 VERSION 5.1 QEMM-386 v5.1 can support Windows 3.0 in all of its possible modes of operation: Real, Standard and 386 Enhanced. Giving Windows 3.0 the type of memory it needs: To give Windows 3.0 the kind of memory it needs for ANY mode of operation, simply install QEMM-386 using the defaults. No special parameters to QEMM-386 are needed for this support and there is no need to use Microsoft's HIRAM.SYS driver or reserve any extended memory for the use of Windows 3.0. QEMM concurrently supports both the EMS standard (the one Windows uses in Real mode) and the XMS standard (the one Windows uses in Standard and Enhanced modes). QEMM-386 automatically detects the type of memory being requested and provides it. Installation Note: If you will be running Windows 3.0, be sure to use the QEMM-386 "RAM" parameter. This parameter will automatically be installed when you run the OPTIMIZE program, or if you answer "Yes" to the question "Fill All High Memory with RAM?" during the QEMM-386 Install procedure. QEMM-386 by default provides memory management in the monochrome video area (B000-B7FF), when it is not in use by a video adapter. If you use the RAM parameter, QEMM-386 fills these addresses with RAM so that resident programs, drivers and some of DOS overhead can be loaded into high memory. However, if you don't use the RAM parameter, Windows 3.0 seems to become confused by QEMM-386's memory management in this area and may refuse to start up in 386 Enhanced mode. If you will be running Windows 3.0 and for some reason don't want to use the RAM parameter, you should exclude QEMM-386's use of this area by using X=B000-B7FF as a parameter to the QEMM386.SYS driver. Fine Tuning: Users who want to make the most efficient use of their memory may want to consider making some changes from the defaults. The procedure for making these modifications varies slightly, depending on whether you have installed QEMM-386 first, or Windows 3.0 first. When QEMM-386 is installed before Windows 3.0: If you install Windows 3.0 after installing QEMM-386, the Windows Setup program's default makes two changes to your CONFIG.SYS file which you may wish to modify. Windows Setup inserts the driver HIMEM.SYS before the QEMM386.SYS driver. When QEMM-386 loads, it can allocate all of the memory that is controlled by the HIMEM.SYS driver, so the presence of HIMEM.SYS is not a big problem. However, HIMEM.SYS takes 2.8K of conventional memory which QEMM-386 cannot reclaim. Since QEMM-386 provides all the features of HIMEM.SYS, you may want to avoid loading HIMEM.SYS altogether. You can do this by selecting "Let you review & edit changes before modifications are made" from Windows Setup when you get to the menu which offers this option. Just edit out the line which contains the HIMEM.SYS driver from the "Proposed CONFIG.SYS file." Or you can remove the line from your CONFIG.SYS file at a later time using a text editor. Windows Setup inserts the driver SMARTDRV.SYS after QEMM386.SYS. This is Microsoft's disk caching software. It will operate correctly as loaded, but its default size tends to be rather large. If you are running programs which use expanded memory outside of Windows, you may want to remove the driver or modify its size. (See SMARTDRV.TEC, our technical note on SMARTDrive.) When Windows 3.0 is installed before QEMM-386: If Windows 3.0 is already installed when you install QEMM-386, the Windows Setup program may have made some changes to your CONFIG.SYS file which you may want to modify. Windows Setup installs a driver called HIMEM.SYS. The QEMM-386 installation procedure puts the QEMM386.SYS driver before the HIMEM.SYS driver. When the system boots, the HIMEM.SYS driver sees that an extended memory manager (QEMM-386) is already installed and does not load itself. This is fine, since the QEMM386.SYS driver provides all the features of HIMEM.SYS. Also, since HIMEM.SYS fails to load, it will not be taking any memory. However, it will beep and produce a message, saying "Error: An Extended Memory Manager is already installed." To get rid of this error message, remove the line which loads the HIMEM.SYS driver from your CONFIG.SYS file using a text editor. Windows Setup inserts the driver SMARTDRV.SYS after QEMM386.SYS. This is Microsoft's disk caching software. It operates correctly as loaded, though its default size tends to be rather large. If you are running programs which use expanded memory outside of Windows, you may want to remove the driver or modify its size. (See SMARTDRV.TEC, our technical note on SMARTDrive.) RUNNING MANIFEST IN WINDOWS 3.0 Quarterdeck Manifest can be run within Windows 3.0 as you would any standard DOS application. You can use the default Windows PIF with the following changes: Change "Memory Requirements: KB Required" to 200. Select COM1 and COM2, so that the communications ports can be seen. When running Manifest in Windows 3.0 in 386 Enhanced mode, the "QEMM 386" entry will not occur even if you are running QEMM-386 before Windows. This is because QEMM-386 completely disables itself when Windows 3.0 is running in Enhanced mode. You will see the entry if you are running Windows in either Real or Standard modes. ZDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD? 3Important Notice: Starting with QEMM-386 version 5.1,3 3the name of the QEMM-386 driver (.SYS) file was 3 3changed from: 3 3 3 3 QEMM.SYS to QEMM386.SYS 3 3 3 3This prevents the Windows 3.0 installation from 3 3incorrectly reporting that QEMM.SYS is incompatible. 3 3So as you read the DESQview 386 or QEMM-386 manual, 3 3remember that QEMM.SYS is now QEMM386.SYS. 3 @DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDY Copyright (C) 1990 by Quarterdeck Office Systems * * * E N D O F F I L E * * * ...and... ID:WT Windows 3/QEMM386 Troubleshooting Quarterdeck Technical Note by Stan Young QEMM-386 version 5.10 and above supports Windows 3.0 in all of its processing modes: Real, Standard and 386 Enhanced. The QEMM-386 upgrade booklet gives some specific instructions for the set up of QEMM-386 to ensure Windows compatibility. Most users who follow these instructions should find that Windows 3.0 will operate correctly with QEMM-386 in all three modes. For the most part, we have not seen problems which relate to QEMM-386 setup when running in Real or Standard modes. However, due to the broad range of hardware and software which may be combined in some systems, we have seen configurations which have experienced various problems when trying to run Windows 3.0 in 386 Enhanced mode. These problems include failure of Windows to start up in Enhanced mode, system crashes when exiting Windows in Enhanced mode, and in some cases problems while running Windows which do not occur when you are not loading QEMM-386. IF WINDOWS 3.0 WILL NOT START IN ENHANCED MODE OR CRASHES ON EXIT: Initial Checklist: The first thing to do if you are having trouble starting Windows 3.0 in Enhanced mode, or upon exit from Windows, is to check your system to be sure that it has been set up as suggested in the QEMM 5.1 Upgrade Booklet. Following are some items that are important to Enhanced mode operations. 1. Be sure the statement which loads QEMM-386 in your CONFIG.SYS file is using the "RAM" parameter or that if you are not using the RAM parameter, you should use "X=B000-B7FF" to exclude QEMM's use of the monochrome video area. Additional information on this is given in the Upgrade Booklet on page 4. 2. If you are running on a machine which has different speeds of memory, you will need to use the NOSORT (NS) parameter. If you are running on a machine which would normally have less than 640K of conventional memory and where QEMM-386 is filling the memory to 640K, you must use the NOFILL (NO) parameter. In both these cases, QEMM-386 cannot support these features while Windows 3.0 is in Enhanced mode. This is because QEMM-386 must be in an "ON" state to manage sorted memory and memory filling. Windows turns QEMM-386 off when it starts up in Enhanced mode. QEMM-386 does not have to be turned off when Windows is in Real or Standard modes, therefore machines that require these features could run in those modes. If you are not sure whether your machine has differing speeds of memory or has 640K of conventional memory, try the parameters anyway. They will have no negative effect if they don't apply. 3. If you are running QEMM-386 version 5.10 instead of 5.11 or later and you have a machine, such as a PS/2 or microchannel compatible, which has an extended BIOS data area, you must use the NOXBDA (NX) parameter so that the extended BIOS data area will not be moved. QEMM-386 version 5.11 and later do not require this parameter, and if you are a registered owner of QEMM 5.10 you may obtain an update at no charge to version 5.11 by sending a request for the update to Quarterdeck along with your registered serial number. If you have not yet registered, you may request the update when you send in your registration card. Also, if you are getting paging errors from Windows, an upgrade to 5.11 may be necessary. You can find out what version of QEMM you have, by running the program "QEMMREG", which is loaded in your QEMM directory. PROBLEMS OR CRASHES WHILE RUNNING WINDOWS IN ENHANCED MODE: Problems or crashes which occur while running Windows 3.0 in Enhanced mode are typically not the fault of QEMM-386, because while Windows is in Enhanced mode, QEMM is completely disabled. In that state, QEMM-386 can neither cause problems or prevent them if they occur. However there may be changes to the system which QEMM-386 has made before being disabled which may later cause problems for Windows. If you encounter problems while running Windows, you should naturally consult with Microsoft Technical Support to see if they have a solution to the problem. If you suspect that QEMM-386 is somehow involved, try disabling QEMM entirely (by putting the word "REM" before the line which loads the QEMM386.SYS driver in your CONFIG.SYS). Leave all other resident programs or drivers installed and see if the problem persists. If it does, then the problem is not related to QEMM. If removing QEMM seems to correct the problem, restore QEMM and then try undoing some of the changes that QEMM has made. For instance, try loading QEMM, but do not load any of your resident programs into high RAM. Also, if you are using FILES.COM or BUFFERS.COM, try loading normal files and buffers. By the way, Windows 3.0 seems to require a minimum of at least 25 file handles, so if you are allocating fewer than 25, increase the number. WINDOWS 386 ENHANCED MODE CONFLICTS WITH OTHER SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE: Windows 386 Enhanced mode may have conflicts with certain types of hardware or software which are not related to QEMM-386. These problems are best addressed by consulting with Microsoft or the manufacturers of the problem hardware or software. However, here are some of the areas where there might be conflicts: 1. NETWORKS Windows 3.0 currently supports ONLY the following networks: LAN Manager v1.0 or 100% compatibles LAN Manager v2.0 Basic or 100% compatibles LAN Manager v2.0 Enhanced or 100% compatibles Microsoft Network or 100% compatibles Novell Netware v2.1 or Netware 386* *Note: Use with Netware requires that you use 3.01 of the IPX and NETx software. Contact Novell for this. If your LAN is not one of the above or a compatible, then it probably will not work properly with Windows. Even if it is one of the above, there may be problems you may have to discuss with Microsoft or your LAN vendor. Network support has been one of the problem areas of the initial release of Windows 3.0. 2. EXPANDED MEMORY TSRs If you are using TSRs before Windows which use expanded memory (disk caches, network drivers, ram disks or pop-up programs which swap themselves to expanded memory), these may not be compatible with Windows 3.0. Microsoft publishes a document for software developers that lists a number of EMS functions which may not be exercised by programs that are resident before Windows. In the past, some of these operations have been fairly commonplace, which may indicate that many TSRs that use expanded memory will be incompatible with Windows 3.0 -- at least in the enhanced mode. If you encounter problems running TSRs that use expanded memory before Windows 3.0, you should contact the manufacturer of the TSR to see if the EMS functions they use meet the limitations as outlined by Microsoft. 3. BUS-MASTERING DEVICES Bus-mastering devices are ones which do their own direct memory addressing (DMA). DMA is done without going through the machine's processor. The most common bus-mastering devices we see currently are SCSI hard disk controllers, but technically, other types of devices could be bus-mastering as well. The problem with these devices is that they put data into absolute memory addresses and assume that the contents of those memory addresses will always remain constant. However, when running Windows 3.0 in enhanced mode, this can often be an incorrect assumption. In Enhanced mode, the same physical memory addresses can at any given moment hold different data, depending on which virtual machine is current. To run Windows 3.0 properly with these devices, you should obtain a driver from the manufacturer of the device which meets the VDS (Virtual DMA Services) specification. With such a driver, Windows 3.0 should be able to operate with your bus-mastering device. When you are not running Windows 3.0 in Enhanced mode, QEMM-386's DISKBUF (DB) parameter can be used to work around these problems. But again, since QEMM-386 must be disabled when Windows Enhanced mode is active, the DISKBUF parameter will have no effect. IF WINDOWS RUNS SLOWLY IN ENHANCED MODE: A full hard disk will probably impair Windows' paging ability and reduce the size and number of programs you can run in Windows. This symptom may look more pronounced with QEMM present. If your operations in Windows seem to be slower than they were previously or you find yourself running out of memory, check to be sure you have plenty of free disk space. This should be at least 2MB (preferably more) on the drive that is pointed to by the TEMP environment variable. Speed may also be affected by fragmentation of your hard drive. In these cases, setting up a permanent Windows swap file, as outlined on page 522 of the Windows manual, might be useful. IF THE PRECEDING SUGGESTIONS FAIL: In particularly difficult cases, getting Windows 3.0 to run in Enhanced mode, here are some things to check and try: 1. If the system has Shadow RAM, try QEMM-386's NOSHADOWRAM (NOSH) parameter. If you are not sure, try it anyway. The parameter will have no harmful effect if your system does not have Shadow RAM. 2. If, when starting Windows enhanced, you get a bunch of garbage on the display and beeping, and Windows goes back to the DOS prompt, check to see that there is a file called WINHIRAM.VXD in the QEMM directory, on your hard disk. Be sure also that this file is identical to the one on the disk that contains the version of QEMM that you are currently running. Versions of this file may be specific to the QEMM-386 version with which they shipped. 3. Run the Windows SETUP program from the DOS prompt (not the Setup which runs inside of Windows) and be sure you have properly identified your machine to Windows. The default SETUP selection specifies "MS-DOS or PC-DOS System," and many users may tend to take this option. However, Windows provides specific setups for many common PC compatibles like AST, NCR, NEC, Toshiba, Everex, and Hewlett-Packard. Check this list if you are having problems. If your machine is on the list, use that selection. 4. Windows Enhanced mode may not like an EMS Page Frame at 9000. Check the location of the frame by running QEMM.COM. If the frame is at 9000, see if you can move it somewhere between C000 and E000. If 9000 was the default selected by QEMM, you may have to relocate installed hardware boards to free up a contiguous 64K memory block in high memory. Be careful you are not forcing the Page Frame over an installed device, or you will also have problems. If you have a Page Frame at 9000, problems are likely to show up when running DOS programs that use expanded memory in Windows 3.0 . 5. If you are running QEMM-386 v5.10 and have trouble running Novell's XMSNET, or anything that uses the XMS memory before Windows enhanced, get the update to QEMM-386 v5.11. 6. In some cases the following modifications to the Windows 3.0 SYSTEM.INI file, which can be found in the WIN directory, have proven to solve problems. Edit the file with a text editor (Windows Notepad will do) and following the line that says "[386Enh]", add a line which says "DualDisplay=True", followed by a line which says "EMMExclude=E000-FFFF". 7. The preceding suggestion should eliminate conflicts where Windows gets confused by our use of available memory areas in the F000-FFFF memory range. However, if you try it and still have problems, try using the X=F000-FFFF parameter to exclude any QEMM mapping in the F000-FFFF area. 8. Some users have reported that they don't get print options inside Windows. If you are having this problem, either remove the SET TEMP= environment variable that the Windows Setup program puts in your AUTOEXEC.BAT file, or make sure that the directory that it is pointing to actually exists and that there is space on the drive specified. 9. For problems running Windows standard or Windows real problems in DV, try changing our DVP's to load WIN /R or WIN /S instead of SYSTEM\KERNEL.EXE or SYSTEM\DOSX.EXE. 10. The Windows 3.0 manual states (page 517) that you should set FILES=30 in your CONFIG.SYS file. It is possible to use QEMM's FILES.COM program to load some of these files into high memory. However, we recommend having at least FILES=15 in your CONFIG.SYS file and loading the rest of your files with FILES.COM. Windows may refuse to come up in Enhanced mode if you have no FILES statement in your CONFIG, or if it is below 15. FOR REFERENCE: Microsoft Technical Support - (206)454-2030 Novell Technical Support - (800)526-7937 Copyright (C) 1990 by Quarterdeck Office Systems * * * E N D O F F I L E * * *
tbt@polari.UUCP (Tom Talbott) (01/26/91)
QEMM 5.11 DOES work with windows 3.0. If you need help, there are some notes from Quarterdeck on compuserve and the SIMTEL20 archive. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- reply to: Tom Talbott | uw-beaver!sumax!polari!tbt | tbt%polari@sumax.seattleu.edu | 72310.2622@compuserve.com
ba124@cs.city.ac.uk (K.A.Streater) (01/27/91)
In <1991Jan24.214837.1994@cs.mcgill.ca> storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) writes: >I recently installed QEMM 5.11 on my machine, and ran into some troubles >with windows 3.0... I decided to remove the EMM, because windows would >crash every time I tried to run more than one task. >Now, all of a sudden, I get three or four OUT OF ENVIRONMENT SPACE errors >every time I get on. Just increase your environment with the line: shell=command.com /e:<environment size>/p in config.sys. I.e. /e:512 gives an envioronment of 512 bytes, just increase the number until the message goes. -- K.A.Streater, JANET: ba124@uk.ac.city.cs The City University, UUCP: ba124@citycs.UUCP or ..!mcsun!ukc!citycs!ba124 LONDON, ARPA: ba124%cs.city.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay England. Tel: +44 (71)253-4399 x 4311/4342
sheinfel@grad1.cis.upenn.edu (Aviad Sheinfeld) (01/27/91)
The absolute latest version of QEMM (Which I believe is 5.11) is totally compatible with Windows 3.0. In fact, it even comes with documentation (when yopu PURCHASE it) that explains exactly what you must remove from the CONFIG.SYS file in order to prevent clashes and crashes. QEMM now handles HIMEM.SYS's function as well as EMM386's functions. Aviad
davids@polygen.uucp (David Swindell) (02/03/91)
Quarterdeck has fixed the earlier incompatabilities with QEMM V5.x; V5.11 contains these fixes and works very well with Windows 3.0 on a 80386-class machine. It serves as a replacement for HIMEM.SYS, EMM*.sys, and all other flavors of memory managers. As to the problem of running out of environment space, the only thing that comes to mind is that if you install QEMM and run its OPTIMIZE utility, it may place some executables in the user's AUTOEXEC.BAT file in advance of his (or her) PATH definition. It has been my experience (at least with older versions of DOS) that one must define environment variables befor running programs in AUTOEXEC.BAT. Dave Swindell Polygen Corporation