hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) (04/08/91)
Just a brief note on something I noticed, but have not seen reported yet. I've been trying out J.P. Software's 4DOS (version 3.02) and have been generally VERY pleased with its vast improvements over COMMAND.COM. However, there are some problems I have noticed which have not been mentioned, as far as I know, in this newsgroup so far. One problem which I had been aware of is that 4DOS does not like the version of HIMEM.SYS required to run Windows 3.0, and will cause your system to crash HARD if you allow it to try to swap to extended memory, which it will do by default unless you tell it not to. Adding a swap-to-disk option (/S:D) will clear this up, and with Windows' SmartCache installed, the loss of speed is negligable. The other problem was more subtle. When windows starts up with 4DOS installed as the shell, the setup program will not run properly. Any attempt to search the disk for applications to install will result in an unexpected application error, and possible a crash. The solution seems to be that COMMAND.COM should be loaded as the primary shell if you intend to run Windows, and 4DOS can be run as a subshell if you exit Windows, or from Windows by adding the 4DOS PIF file to your Main group. Hope this isn't old news to everyone, but I've seen no mention of this. -- --Jeff Hartung-- Disclaimer: My opinions only, etc., etc., BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!... InterNet - hartung@crl.ucsd.edu or ps299bx@igrad1.ucsd.edu UUCP - ucsd!crl.ucsd.edu!hartung BITNET - hartung@ucsd
st12a@menudo.uh.edu (richard henderson~) (04/09/91)
In article <18059@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes: > One problem which I had been aware of is >that 4DOS does not like the version of HIMEM.SYS required to run Windows 3.0, >and will cause your system to crash HARD if you allow it to try to swap to >extended memory... That is odd, as I am running HIMEM.SYS v2.06 and do not have this problem. If you have an older version of HIMEM, perhaps you should upgrade. --------------- richard~ st12a@menudo.uh.edu richard@stat.tamu.edu
woan@nowhere (Ronald S Woan) (04/09/91)
In article <18059@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes: >One problem which I had been aware of is that 4DOS does not like the >version of HIMEM.SYS required to run Windows 3.0, and will cause your >system to crash HARD if you allow it to try to swap to extended >memory, which it will do by default unless you tell it not to. >Adding a swap-to-disk option (/S:D) will clear this up, and with >Windows' SmartCache installed, the loss of speed is negligable. Hmm.. I have been using 4DOS 3.02a with the best swapping option and have never encountered this problem. >The other problem was more subtle. When windows starts up with 4DOS >installed as the shell, the setup program will not run properly. Any >attempt to search the disk for applications to install will result in >an unexpected application error, and possible a crash. The solution >seems to be that COMMAND.COM should be loaded as the primary shell if >you intend to run Windows, and 4DOS can be run as a subshell if you >exit Windows, or from Windows by adding the 4DOS PIF file to your >Main group. How often do you use setup from within Windows? Anyway, I have never had a Windows/4DOS problem and I have been using them together since the second week after Windows 3.0 release. Sounds like something else might be going on... -- +-----All Views Expressed Are My Own And Are Not Necessarily Shared By------+ +------------------------------My Employer----------------------------------+ + Ronald S. Woan woan@cactus.org or woan@austin.vnet.ibm.com + + other email addresses Prodigy: XTCR74A Compuserve: 73530,2537 +
royster@unccvax.uncc.edu (David Royster) (04/09/91)
In article <18059@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes: >... >there are some problems I have noticed which have not been mentioned, as far >as I know, in this newsgroup so far. One problem which I had been aware of is >that 4DOS does not like the version of HIMEM.SYS required to run Windows 3.0, >and will cause your system to crash HARD if you allow it to try to swap to >extended memory, I am running both on a 386 at home and have seen no problems with 4DOS or Windows3. As was mentioned in another message, check your version of HIMEM.SYS > >The other problem was more subtle. When windows starts up with 4DOS installed >as the shell, the setup program will not run properly. Any attempt to search >the disk for applications to install will result in an unexpected application >error, and possible a crash. Again, I have had no such problem, and have been running both since Oct, 90. However, given the first problem you have experienced, it is not surprising that you run into others. Isn't it true that they always run in 3's?!? dcroyster -- David C. Royster royster@unccvax.uncc.edu (128.109.143.1) Mathematics Department fma00dcr@unccvm.bitnet UNC Charlotte, Charlotte NC Augustus F. Mobius Wedding Band Company---Rings to fit every finger.
ccastd2@prism.gatech.EDU (Dale Phurrough) (04/09/91)
I remember there being an undocumented fix for this. There is a
parameter to give 4dos to cause it to behave properly when shelling
out of win 3. Does anyone remember this param? If anyone does, all the
problems mentioned will go away!
--
Lamborghini Diablo ===----> the latest and fastest....
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!ccastd2
Internet: ccastd2@prism.gatech.edualun@sunatb.UUCP (Alun Saunders) (04/09/91)
hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes: >Just a brief note on something I noticed, but have not seen reported yet. >I've been trying out J.P. Software's 4DOS (version 3.02) and have been >generally VERY pleased with its vast improvements over COMMAND.COM. However, ... Lots of stuff about 4DOS crashing, and SETUP not running deleted ... >Hope this isn't old news to everyone, but I've seen no mention of this. I have exactly this setup and have not experienced *any* ofthe problems you have mentioned. Swapping to XMS goes like a dream, and Windows has no problems at all. Maybe if you could tell more about your configuration, I could discover what the problem is. Alun Saunders
hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) (04/09/91)
In article <1991Apr8.201757.7530@menudo.uh.edu> st12a@menudo.uh.edu (richard henderson~) writes: >In article <18059@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes: >> One problem which I had been aware of is >>that 4DOS does not like the version of HIMEM.SYS required to run Windows 3.0, >>and will cause your system to crash HARD if you allow it to try to swap to >>extended memory... > >That is odd, as I am running HIMEM.SYS v2.06 and do not have this problem. >If you have an older version of HIMEM, perhaps you should upgrade. The pre-Windows3 version(s) of HIMEM.SYS will not work with windows. Windows will complain that the driver is outdated and tells you to install _its_ HIMEM driver. Many other responses to my initial article were posted and/or sent e-mail. Several people reported never having seen the problem. I have seen it show up on two different machines (a 12 MHz 286 and a 20 MHz 386). I did leave out one fact which was sort-of implied, but not directly stated. The problem occurs when I try to load 4DOS as the primary command shell _and_ install SmartCache that comes with Windows 3.0. SmartCache loads first (no matter how one arranges the sequence of lines in the CONFIG.SYS file), then 4DOS tries to use the same memory, and the first attempt to access the swapped memory that is supposed to be in extended memory by 4DOS causes the system to halt. The conflict seems to arise from the way in which Windows uses extended memory. As I had said earlier, the solution (for me) was to tell 4DOS _not_ to use extended memory, either by making it swap to disk (/S:D) or not to swap at all (/S:N). The other problem, that SETUP doesn't run properly, is not a major problem since, as was pointed out by someone, it isn't a frequent operation, but when I _do_ have to run it, it's nice to know that there is a way it can be done properly. I couldn't even get Windows 3.0 to install (unless I bypassed the scan-disk-for-applications portion of the setup procedure) on my home 286 until I replaced the 'shell=4dos.com...' line with a 'shell=command.com...' line in my CONFIG.SYS. Others have reported similar problems to me since my initial article. It may be bios specific (AWARD), or it may be something else. Fortunately, hardware changes (like changing the display mode from 640x480x256 to 800x60x16) _will_ run properly no matter which command interpreter is running. Again, I think (especially since I heard this from others) that the problem is real, and not due to "something else," as has been suggested, but I am willing to acknowledge that the conflict may involve a particular hardware/ bios/device driver combination. Comments? -- --Jeff Hartung-- Disclaimer: My opinions only, etc., etc., BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!... InterNet - hartung@crl.ucsd.edu or ps299bx@igrad1.ucsd.edu UUCP - ucsd!crl.ucsd.edu!hartung BITNET - hartung@ucsd
dmaster@cbnewsc.att.com (D. R. Wojciechowski) (04/11/91)
Sorry to disagree, but I not only run 4DOS3.02 with Windows3.0, but installed Windows3.0 with it running and always swap to XMS (sometimes several sessions. This has worked on my earlier '286 and my current '386. I suspect you have other problems. I have no connections to 4DOS or Windows3.0 except as a satisfied user (very satisfied in the case of 4DOS). Dan Wojciechowski dmaster@ihlpm.att.com
bradd@gssc.UUCP (Brad Davis) (04/11/91)
hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes: >Many other responses to my initial article were posted and/or sent >e-mail. Several people reported never having seen the problem. I have >seen it show up on two different machines (a 12 MHz 286 and a 20 MHz >386). [Problem with 4DOS not sharing extended memory with "Smart Cache" deleted] I'm another person who has not seen this problem on any of the five 4DOS-equipped, Windows-using machines that I use or know of. In particular, neither of the 386s I use everyday have this problem. Both run 4DOS as their primary shells, both run Smart DRIVE in extended memory, both use XMS swapping. Both machines spend most of their time in Windows. The above is true with both HIMEM.SYS and with QEMM. I normally use QEMM but I spent several weeks with HIMEM.SYS recently and that worked fine too. >The other problem, that SETUP doesn't run properly, is not a major >problem since, as was pointed out by someone, it isn't a frequent >operation ... > Others have reported similar problems to me since my >initial article. It may be bios specific (AWARD), or it may be >something else. I've had no problems with my AMI and Phoenix BIOS machines. >Again, I think (especially since I heard this from others) that the >problem is real, and not due to "something else," as has been >suggested, but I am willing to acknowledge that the conflict may >involve a particular hardware/ bios/device driver combination. > >Comments? You are looking in the wrong place. Get down to a 5 or so line CONFIG.SYS (FILES, BUFFERS, HIMEM, SMARTDRV and SHELL) and no AUTOEXEC.BAT. Allow 4DOS to use it's defaults. If that doesn't do the trick, you have a hardware compatibility problem. Check the Windows README.TXT at about line 185 where they talk about HIMEM.SYS and systems that have strange methods of handling the A20 address line. Best of luck, Brad _________ Random drivel from the keyboard of: | |.| Brad Davis, GSS Inc, Beaverton OR | bradd |:| bradd@gssc (503) 671-8431 ___|_______|_|___ _________ Disclaimer: The boss disavows |[]gssc| _-_ _-_ | @|#########| all knowledge of my actions. |______|__________|@@@@ +---------+
mlord@bwdls58.bnr.ca (Mark Lord) (04/12/91)
In article <18059@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes:
<
<... When windows starts up with 4DOS installed
<as the shell, the setup program will not run properly. Any attempt to search
<the disk for applications to install will result in an unexpected application
<error, and possible a crash. The solution seems to be that COMMAND.COM should
<be loaded as the primary shell if you intend to run Windows, and 4DOS can be
<run as a subshell if you exit Windows, or from Windows by adding the 4DOS PIF
<file to your Main group.
The windows "setup" problem may be due to something else. I had this problem
at one time and managed to get rid of it. And I still use 4DOS for *all*
shells.
Give this a try if you are still having problems:
alias WIN c:\windows\win
Followups to comp.windows.ms
--
MLORD@BNR.CA Ottawa, Ontario *** Personal views only ***
begin 644 NOTSHARE.COM ; Free MS-DOS utility - use instead of SHARE.EXE
MZQ.0@/P/=`J`_!9T!2[_+H``L/_/+HX&+`"T2<TAO@,!OX0`N1(`C,B.P/.DS
<^K@A-<TAB1Z``(P&@@"ZA`"X(27-(?NZE@#-)P#-5
``
endbchin@umd5.umd.edu (Bill Chin) (04/15/91)
In article <18059@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> hartung@crl.ucsd.edu (Jeff Hartung) writes: > [4dos problems deleted] I haven't had any problems with the 5 machines I've seen it run on with Smartdrive, Himem, and Windows. That includes using BlueMax, PS/2's, AMI and Zenith BIOS's. Remember to use the /v parameter when running 4DOS from Windows. BTW, has seen/used 4CMD? That's the command shell replacement for OS/2 from the makers of 4DOS? I'm gonna be moving to OS/2 1.3 soon for my home machine. -- Bill Chin internet:bchin@umd5.umd.edu MS-Windows Programmer NeXTmail:bchin@is-next.umd.edu PCIP, Computer Science Center CompuServe:74130,2714 University of Maryland, College Park *Standard Disclaimers Apply*
bradd@gssc.UUCP (Brad Davis) (04/16/91)
ccastd2@prism.gatech.EDU (Dale Phurrough) writes: >I remember there being an undocumented fix for this. There is a >parameter to give 4dos to cause it to behave properly when shelling >out of win 3. Does anyone remember this param? If anyone does, all the >problems mentioned will go away! I remember seeing in the 4DOS newsletter a suggestion that you should use the /V switch on 4DOS invocations in a Win3 enhanced window. They say that it doesn't do anything if you are not in virtual 86 mode, so I specified it in my 4DOS config file so I didn't have to update all my PIFs. See, there are benefits to registering your shareware! And I just spilled the beans... where is that backspace key? ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hdddddddddddd Seriously, I think the folks at J.P. Software did a fantastic job and that 4DOS is clearly worth the registration fee. Roadkill from the tires of: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \ / >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad Davis, GSS Inc, Beaverton OR <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< --=###%= <<<<<<<<<<<< bradd@gssc (503) 671-8431 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> / \ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Disclaimer: I claimed something?!?! My car hates cats Disclaimer': No affiliation, just a greatly pleased customer, etc, etc.