[alt.rock-n-roll] CALL FOR DISCUSSION: rec.music.pfloyd

tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (01/05/90)

First of all, I've been a major Pink Floyd nut for years, to the point
where roommates have begged me not to play any more of it.  It's one of
the few rock bands with genuine philosophical and psychological
insight, combined with musical excellence that knows no betters.

I oppose this newsgroup.  I think newsgroups should be for broad
categories of discussion, and of interest to many people.  I don't
think they should be fan clubs.  Fan clubs hardly even permit
discussion, just panegyrics.  One can't discuss the pros and cons of
the subject matter in a fan club; one can be a member of the inside
group who say everything about the idol is groovy, or one of a hated
group of heretics who insist on pointing out that nothing is perfect
and no one is God.

I would, however, support the creation of a "rec.music.psychedelic".  I
imagine that Pink Floyd would be one of the most enduring subjects in
such a group, but its charter would be appropriately broad-based.

Fan clubs are the death of honest criticism.
-- 
Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com

"What's the ugliest part of your body?
 Some say your nose, some say your toes,
 But I think it's your mind."
-- Frank Zappa

TAR@MAINE.BITNET (Thom Rounds) (01/06/90)

In article <9504@hoptoad.uucp>, tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) says:
>
>First of all, I've been a major Pink Floyd nut for years, to the point
>where roommates have begged me not to play any more of it.  It's one of
>the few rock bands with genuine philosophical and psychological
>insight, combined with musical excellence that knows no betters.
>
>I oppose this newsgroup.  I think newsgroups should be for broad
>categories of discussion, and of interest to many people.  I don't
>think they should be fan clubs.  Fan clubs hardly even permit
>discussion, just panegyrics.  One can't discuss the pros and cons of
>the subject matter in a fan club; one can be a member of the inside
>group who say everything about the idol is groovy, or one of a hated
>group of heretics who insist on pointing out that nothing is perfect
>and no one is God.
>
    Okay, point taken. Now then, do you suggest we remove rec.music.gdead, and
rec.music.gaffa? They are the same kinds of newgroup that I've been campaigning
for. And if you read through them, there is plenty of criticism, constructive
and otherwise. Why would rec.music.pfloyd be different?

>I would, however, support the creation of a "rec.music.psychedelic".  I
>imagine that Pink Floyd would be one of the most enduring subjects in
>such a group, but its charter would be appropriately broad-based.
>
    I would say that Pink Floyd ended it's psychedelisism the minute Syd Barret
sent his brain off into the land of permanent acid trips. Floyd is no longer a
psychedelic band, and I'd say they stopped that beginning in Meddle, and to a
screeching halt in Dark Side of the Moon, so I think it's safe to say Pink
Floyd stopped being a band of psychedelics very early in their collective
carreers. Not that the idea for the group isn't bad, though, why don't you give
it a try? You couldn't *possibly* do any worse than I did!

>Fan clubs are the death of honest criticism.

    Perhaps. They're also a great place to hang out and get info, material, and
just about anything pertaining to the subject matter that you want.
>--
>Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com
>
                                   --Thom Rounds
>"What's the ugliest part of your body?
> Some say your nose, some say your toes,
> But I think it's your mind."
>-- Frank Zappa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <------- Now THAT'S a .sig!

sksircar@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Subrata Sircar) (01/06/90)

In article <9504@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes:
>I oppose this newsgroup.  I think newsgroups should be for broad
>categories of discussion, and of interest to many people.  I don't
>think they should be fan clubs.  Fan clubs hardly even permit
>discussion, just panegyrics.  One can't discuss the pros and cons of
>the subject matter in a fan club; one can be a member of the inside
>group who say everything about the idol is groovy, or one of a hated
>group of heretics who insist on pointing out that nothing is perfect
>and no one is God.

True, but perhaps not relevant.  If this newsgroup is created, it won't be a
newsgroup in the sense of discussion, flames, information, etc. - it will be
more of a mailing list.  Maybe it should be a mailing list.  I offer as an
example the Rush mailing list, which I get.  Most of the discussion has 
centered on their new album, with people discussing things they liked about it,
summarizations of interviews, and other inside information.  Also, lately, we
are looking at the section of a song to try to decide what exactly is going on.
I personally enjoy listening to this, even if I don't contribute a lot.  
However, this is not what Tim thinks a newsgroup should be ("broad catagories
of discussion") with disagreements, etc.  Everybody on the mailing list has at
least some interest in Rush, and likes at least some of the music and the style
or else they would not subscribe to it - which is Tim's point.  I would vote 
yes, and subscribe to a PF mailing list, and vote NO on a newsgroup.  Part of 
the fun of USENET is arguing (NOT flaming, at least not for me) and divergent
positions of topics of discussion.  The proposed newsgroup won't have a lot of
that.

>I would, however, support the creation of a "rec.music.psychedelic".  I
>imagine that Pink Floyd would be one of the most enduring subjects in
>such a group, but its charter would be appropriately broad-based.

Worth a try, IMHO.  Anybody else have an opinion?

-- 
Subrata K. Sircar, Prophet & Charter Member of SPAMIT(tm)
sksircar@phoenix.princeton.edu       SKSIRCAR@PUCC.BITNET
"If my life was half as interesting as other people DREAMED it..." - R"BD"D
Disclaimer:  As if anybody/anything would want me speaking for them...

tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (01/07/90)

In article <TAR.90005144606@MAINE.BITNET> TAR@MAINE.BITNET (Thom Rounds) writes:
>    Okay, point taken. Now then, do you suggest we remove rec.music.gdead, and
>rec.music.gaffa? They are the same kinds of newgroup that I've been campaigning
>for. And if you read through them, there is plenty of criticism, constructive
>and otherwise.

Baloney.  I also very much like Kate Bush's music.  I eventually
dropped out of rec.music.gaffa beacuse it was dominated by worshipful
pinheads who took any criticism of any aspect of her performances as a
personal affront deserving of multi-hundred-line personal flames.  In
the end, there was nothing of criticism in it at all, only reams of
trivia and minutiae of interest only to the quasi-religious.

>Why would rec.music.pfloyd be different?

I very much doubt that it would be any different.  It would be a fan
club, and would be dominated by the same all-supportive social dynamic.

>>I would, however, support the creation of a "rec.music.psychedelic".  I
>>imagine that Pink Floyd would be one of the most enduring subjects in
>>such a group, but its charter would be appropriately broad-based.
>>
>    I would say that Pink Floyd ended it's psychedelisism the minute Syd Barret
>sent his brain off into the land of permanent acid trips. Floyd is no longer a
>psychedelic band, and I'd say they stopped that beginning in Meddle, and to a
>screeching halt in Dark Side of the Moon, so I think it's safe to say Pink
>Floyd stopped being a band of psychedelics very early in their collective
>carreers.

No, they became *mature* psychedelics rather than the doodlers of
occasional interest that they had been before Meddle.  I certainly see
a psychedelic aesthetic in works like DARK SIDE OF THE MOON, WISH YOU
WERE HERE, and THE WALL.  But for purposes of discusion of
rec.music.pfloyd, that's really neither here nor there, so I won't
develop the idea at length.

And by the way, Barrett is generally believed to have fried his brain
on mandies (Mandrax, a CNS depressant known in the USA as "quaaludes")
rather than on LSD.
-- 
Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com

These are not my opinions, those of my ex-employers, my old schools, my
relatives, my friends, or really any rational person whatsoever.

brooks@lclark.UUCP (Thomas Brooks) (01/09/90)

Er..umm...I hadn't gotten the impression that the group would be for people
to post things like "Yeah, Floyd.  They're so great!! Oh, man that Gilmour
guitar."  Maybe, just maybe, if there were a group for Floyd type people, 
there could be a discussion of some of the philosophical and/or psychological
aspects of the band/music.  If I were to waltz into the (god forbid)
clubhouse of THE PINK FLOYD FAN CLUB and spout something about what I think
Echoes is all about, I don't think I'd get much. ("Groovy man, now shut up
we're listening to bootlegs.")

So hey, how 'bout rec.music.pfloydfanclub for the exclamations and such?

-----------------------------------> Funky <---------------------------------
Reply: brooks@lclark.UUCP

TAR@MAINE.BITNET (Thom Rounds) (01/09/90)

In article <9529@hoptoad.uucp>, tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) says:
>
>In article <TAR.90005144606@MAINE.BITNET> TAR@MAINE.BITNET (Thom Rounds)      :
>writes
>>    Okay, point taken. Now then, do you suggest we remove rec.music.gdead,
>and
>>rec.music.gaffa? They are the same kinds of newgroup that I've been          g
>campaignin
>>for. And if you read through them, there is plenty of criticism, constructive
>>and otherwise.
>
>Baloney.  I also very much like Kate Bush's music.  I eventually
>dropped out of rec.music.gaffa beacuse it was dominated by worshipful
>pinheads who took any criticism of any aspect of her performances as a
>personal affront deserving of multi-hundred-line personal flames.  In
>the end, there was nothing of criticism in it at all, only reams of
>trivia and minutiae of interest only to the quasi-religious.
>
    We are Pink Floyd fans, not Kate Bush fans. Extended listening to Pink
Floyd tends to broaden the mind. I'm not saying *only* Pink Floyd has the mind-
opening effect, in case anyone wishes to flame me. I would like to suggest that
you go through any Pink Floyd discussions in other groups. There is alot of
open opinions, none of them all positive or all negative. The only thing that
would be lost in rec.music.pfloyd is discussions about other bands. However, I
am quite sure that other bands *would* be brought up as cross-references. Very
few 'pin-heads' listen to Pink Floyd because they can't comprehend it. Almost
all of the Pink Floyd listeners that I know on this planet have their reserv-
ations about Floyd or any of it's performers. I see no 'worship'.

>>Why would rec.music.pfloyd be different?
>
>I very much doubt that it would be any different.  It would be a fan
>club, and would be dominated by the same all-supportive social dynamic.
>
    I disagree, for the reasons I stated above.

>>>I would, however, support the creation of a "rec.music.psychedelic".  I
>>>imagine that Pink Floyd would be one of the most enduring subjects in
>>>such a group, but its charter would be appropriately broad-based.
>>>
>>    I would say that Pink Floyd ended it's psychedelisism the minute Syd     t
>Barre
>>sent his brain off into the land of permanent acid trips. Floyd is no longer
>a
>>psychedelic band, and I'd say they stopped that beginning in Meddle, and to a
>>screeching halt in Dark Side of the Moon, so I think it's safe to say Pink
>>Floyd stopped being a band of psychedelics very early in their collective
>>carreers.
>
>No, they became *mature* psychedelics rather than the doodlers of
>occasional interest that they had been before Meddle.  I certainly see
>a psychedelic aesthetic in works like DARK SIDE OF THE MOON, WISH YOU
>WERE HERE, and THE WALL.  But for purposes of discusion of
>rec.music.pfloyd, that's really neither here nor there, so I won't
>develop the idea at length.
>
    Agreed. That argument can wait for rec.music.pfloyd's creation. If it isn't
created, the argument can manifest itself in alt.rock-n-roll or rec.music.misc.

>And by the way, Barrett is generally believed to have fried his brain
>on mandies (Mandrax, a CNS depressant known in the USA as "quaaludes")
>rather than on LSD.

    I couldn't tell you. I wasn't a complete human at the time.

>--
>Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com
>
>These are not my opinions, those of my ex-employers, my old schools, my
>relatives, my friends, or really any rational person whatsoever.

                                  --Thom Rounds

tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (01/10/90)

In article <TAR.90008211525@MAINE.BITNET> TAR@MAINE.BITNET (Thom Rounds) writes:
>    We are Pink Floyd fans, not Kate Bush fans. Extended listening to Pink
>Floyd tends to broaden the mind. I'm not saying *only* Pink Floyd has the mind-
>opening effect, in case anyone wishes to flame me. I would like to suggest that
>you go through any Pink Floyd discussions in other groups. There is alot of
>open opinions, none of them all positive or all negative. The only thing that
>would be lost in rec.music.pfloyd is discussions about other bands. However, I
>am quite sure that other bands *would* be brought up as cross-references. Very
>few 'pin-heads' listen to Pink Floyd because they can't comprehend it. Almost
>all of the Pink Floyd listeners that I know on this planet have their reserv-
>ations about Floyd or any of it's performers. I see no 'worship'.

This is a good example of the kind of holier-than-thou, aren't-we-wonderful
foolishness that I was predicting.  Always glad to be proven right....
-- 
Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com

"Its failings notwithstanding, there is much to be said in favor
 of journalism in that by giving us the opinion of the uneducated, it
 keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community." -- Oscar Wilde