nam2254@dsacg2.UUCP (Tom Ohmer) (11/18/89)
In an attempt to NOT post an article with a question (like I'm doing now),
I tried to mail to Henry Spencer at the University of Toronto Zoology Dept.
The mail program here did not like any of the three addresses I used.
I tried: uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry from Henry's .sig
henry@zoo.toronto.edu " " "
henry@utzoo.uucp " " header From: line
I have received mail in response to postings I've made, and would like to do
the same, but the man(ual) I've spent (too much of) today in isn't helping,
and everyone around here that I have asked knows less than I do.
Thanks in advance for any help.
--
Tom Ohmer @ Defense Logistics Agency Systems Automation Center,
DSAC-AMB, Bldg. 27-6, P.O. Box 1605, Columbus, OH 43216-5002
UUCP: ...{seismo!osu-cis}!dsacg2!tohmer INTERNET: tohmer@dsacg2.dla.mil
Phone: (614) 238-9210 AUTOVON: 850-9210 Disclaimer claimedlamy@ai.utoronto.ca (Jean-Francois Lamy) (11/19/89)
nam2254@dsacg2.UUCP (Tom Ohmer) writes: >I tried: uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry from Henry's .sig > henry@zoo.toronto.edu " " " > henry@utzoo.uucp " " header From: line The second address ought to have worked; the fact that it did not indicates that your site's mailer is still using the thoroughly useless static hosts file from nic.ddn.mil instead of querying a domain name server, or is misusing that data. zoo.toronto.edu is not directly connected to the internet (real soon now, though :-), and the domain name server data would have told your mailer to send that message, as is, to neat.ai.toronto.edu (128.100.1.65) without you having to worry about further details. Some machines with inferior software can not handle such indirection data (called MX records), and insist on handling things as if all machines in the universe were directly connected to the Internet and had an Internet address (and the matching A record in the name server). To re-emphasize[sic], relying on the hosts file is just asking for trouble. For instance, out of the 500 hosts on this network, only half-a-dozen appear in the hosts file (the Network Information Center will only put hosts that run your name servers in that file). Using a broken mailer that does not handle MX records is only slightly less silly, but at least that might have worked in this instance. The first address you tried is most useful for UUCP sites. Given some additional knowledge like a) uunet in UUCP land is the same machine as uunet.uu.net on the Internet b) uunet.uu.net actually appears in the (expletive deleted) hosts file c) uunet will do something sensible if you give it a UUCP route as the local part of the address, you can derive an address that has a better chance of working for you, namely, attcan!utzoo!henry@uunet.uu.net and because utzoo appears in the UUCP routing data you can shorten that to utzoo!henry@uunet.uu.net The last address you tried is a common abbreviation used on sites that have the UUCP routing data available to them; it means look up utzoo in the UUCP maps and send it there, or send it to a machine that you know can deal with this. There is little hope that this would work on your machine. Jean-Francois Lamy lamy@ai.utoronto.ca, uunet!ai.utoronto.ca!lamy AI Group, Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
tale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) (11/19/89)
In <89Nov18.122827est.2712@neat.cs.toronto.edu> lamy@ai.utoronto.ca
(Jean-Francois Lamy) writes:
JF> you can derive an address that has a better chance of working for
JF> you, namely,
JF> attcan!utzoo!henry@uunet.uu.net
JF> and because utzoo appears in the UUCP routing data you can shorten that to
JF> utzoo!henry@uunet.uu.net
JF> The last address you tried is a common abbreviation used on sites that have
JF> the UUCP routing data available to them; it means look up utzoo in the UUCP
JF> maps and send it there, or send it to a machine that you know can deal with
JF> this. There is little hope that this would work on your machine.
You should be very careful, however, in mixing ! and @ style addresses.
There is no universally accepted standard (of which I am aware; I am
sure someone will flame me if I am wrong) regarding precedence. The
only operator used with third-party mailing in @ addresses is "%".
Though many sites understand the above address and will process it as
Jean-Francois describes, other will (not necessarily incorrectly, since
there is no precedence rule) attempt to route the mail through attcan
to utzoo, expecting it to be sent to henry@uunet.uu.net. If the site
on the rhs of the @ knows where the UUCP site is which you are tring to
reach (as in Jean-Francois's second example) you are probably safer
using %-style notation -- henry%ytzoo.UUCP@uunet.uu.net.
Dave
--
(setq mail '("tale@pawl.rpi.edu" "tale@ai.mit.edu" "tale@rpitsmts.bitnet"))lamy@ai.utoronto.ca (Jean-Francois Lamy) (11/19/89)
tale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) writes: >You should be very careful, however, in mixing ! and @ style addresses. >There is no universally accepted standard (of which I am aware; I am >sure someone will flame me if I am wrong) regarding precedence. The >only operator used with third-party mailing in @ addresses is "%". It's even uglier than that: some sites will interpret a%b@c differently than b!a@c, even if they both give @ highest priority; experience probably told David to write henry%utzoo.uucp@uunet.uu.net instead of henry%utzoo@... On some networks the second address may have been interpreted as henry on "the local utzoo", as opposed to the utzoo you will find in the uucp maps. We have live confrontations like that every once in a while (when the person meant the physics machine on the UUCP net and got our department of physics, our vice-versa). Jean-Francois Lamy lamy@ai.utoronto.ca, uunet!ai.utoronto.ca!lamy AI Group, Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
tkevans@fallst.UUCP (Tim Evans) (11/20/89)
In article <801@dsacg2.UUCP>, nam2254@dsacg2.UUCP (Tom Ohmer) writes: > I tried to mail to Henry Spencer at the University of Toronto Zoology Dept. > The mail program here did not like any of the three addresses I used. > I tried: uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry from Henry's .sig Okay, 'uunet' is a major "backbone" site in the network. You are on your own to get from your system to there, from whence your mail will wing its way on. How do you find out how to get to 'uunet'? First, find out to what neighbor systems your site is directly connected, then find out a path via one of them to 'uunet'. If you're getting news on your site, you're probably getting the newsgroup 'comp.mail.maps' to which are posted "maps" of the UUCP network arranged by U.S. State, Canadian Province, and other Nations of the world. Hopefully, someone on your site saves all these and you can look up the address you want from them. A possible location on your system is directory /usr/local/maps (or something similar). If you're even luckier, your system administrator is running a program called "pathalias" which gulps down all these maps and generates a database of routes to every site in the maps from yours. Try looking for the file /usr/lib/uucp/paths. If none of this stuff is available on your system, ask your system administrator to put it up. > henry@zoo.toronto.edu " " " > henry@utzoo.uucp " " header From: line These are "Internet-style" addresses and you need some form of "smart" mail router running on your system. Look for 'sendmail' (on BSD systems) or 'smail' (on most systems). To repeat something I mentioned earlier, if your site is getting netnews, some or all of this stuff is probably already in place. Try asking your system administrator for help. (If YOU are the sysadmin, then you need to do some studying. Start with the two companion "Nutshell" handbooks: _Using UUCP and USENET_ and _Managing UUCP and USENET_. Also, there's another book entitled _UNIX Communications_.) Good luck! -- UUCP: {rutgers|ames|uunet}!mimsy!woodb!fallst!tkevans INTERNET: tkevans@wb3ffv.ampr.org OTHER: attmail!fallst!tkevans Tim Evans 2201 Brookhaven Ct, Fallston, MD 21047 (301) 965-3286
miller@ria.ccs.uwo.ca (J G Miller) (11/21/89)
In article <89Nov18.122827est.2712@neat.cs.toronto.edu> lamy@ai.utoronto.ca (Jean-Francois Lamy) writes: >that data. zoo.toronto.edu is not directly connected to the internet (real ^^^ >Jean-Francois Lamy lamy@ai.utoronto.ca, uunet!ai.utoronto.ca!lam ^^ In sending mail to the University of Toronto, which form of the address should be used - machine.toronto.EDU or machine.utoronto.CA Just wondering. -- ++++++++: J G Miller mail: Room 024, Chemistry Building InterNet: <a4346@uwocc1.uwo.CA> University of Western Ontario NetNorth: <A4346@UWOCC1.BITNET> LONDON, Ontario, N6A 5B7 UseNet: <a4346@julian.UUCP> phone: (519) 679-2111 ext 6325
bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) (11/23/89)
In article <1989Nov19.010922.16977@rpi.edu> tale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) writes: |[...] |You should be very careful, however, in mixing ! and @ style addresses. |There is no universally accepted standard (of which I am aware; I am |sure someone will flame me if I am wrong) regarding precedence. The |only operator used with third-party mailing in @ addresses is "%". |Though many sites understand the above address and will process it as |Jean-Francois describes, other will (not necessarily incorrectly, since |there is no precedence rule) attempt to route the mail through attcan |to utzoo, expecting it to be sent to henry@uunet.uu.net. If the site |on the rhs of the @ knows where the UUCP site is which you are tring to |reach (as in Jean-Francois's second example) you are probably safer |using %-style notation -- henry%ytzoo.UUCP@uunet.uu.net. Gack! Like many uucp sites, I use "smail" in its guise as "rmail". When it resolves an address with a "%" sign in it, such as (for my system) "someone%somesite@becker", it proceeds to look for the user "someone%somesite" on this machine. Of course this doesn't exist so it bounces. I know there is a patch for this, which I will sometime install, but the point is that a lot of uucp sites run vanilla smail with this result. "%" is *not* universally understood! Ulp, -- ^^ Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. w \**/ Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu `/v/-e BitNet: BECKER@HUMBER.BITNET _/ >_ Ceci n'est pas une | - Rene Macwrite