Andy.Linton@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Linton) (09/13/90)
I need to be able to use Sendmail 5.64 IDA to talk to DEC's mail11v3 mailer on an Ultrix box which has DECnet-Ultrix installed. I've got the sendmail built but when I try to invoke mail11v3 it just hangs as though it was waiting for something else on stdin e.g. # /usr/lib/sendmail -ba -t -v From: asjl@golem.wcc.govt.nz To: brockie@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Subject: test hello . 050 brockie@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz... Connecting to kosmos (DECNET)... 050 220 Mail-11_V3.0 DECnet-ULTRIX Mail-11 Mailer 050 >>> HELO golem.wcc.govt.nz 050 250 Mail-11_V3.0 DECnet-ULTRIX Mail-11 Mailer 050 >>> MAIL From:<golem::asjl> 451 brockie@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz... timeout waiting for input 050 brockie@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz... Deferred I note that the DECnet-Ultrix Release Notes say: You can use the new mail11v3 mailer only with the supported sendmail that comes with ULTRIX-32 V3.0a due to modifications that were necessary for the mailer to be compatible with the DECnet MAIL-11 protocol. I interpret this to mean that that they changed the internals of sendmail so that it behaves differently when talking to this particular mailer. This sounds like VERY BAD practice to me - the task of converting to the DECnet MAIL-11 protocol is one that should be undertaken by the mail11v3 program. What I need is either a replacement for mail11v3 which behaves correctly or as a very poor second choice details of what I need to do sendmail. DEC: please don't do this sort of thing to us - it really sucks!
jenst@dxcsjr.cern.ch (Jens Trier Rasmussen) (09/13/90)
DEC has implemented an extended version of SMTP, which includes two new commands MULT and HEAD. MULT gives multiple statuses for recipients and HEAD lets mail11v3 have a peak on the message headers. This is necessary because of the way MAIL-11 handle Cc. If you want to use another mail11 program try the one on gatekeeper.dec.com, which is the one DECWRL uses as the gateway between Internet and DEC's Easynet. I can't remeber the path, but look for something like wrl-mail11. regards Jens Trier Rasmussen CERN-CN/CS jenst@cernvax.cern.ch
aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg) (09/14/90)
In <jenst.653220434@dxcsjr.cern.ch> jenst@dxcsjr.cern.ch (Jens Trier Rasmussen) writes: >If you want to use another mail11 program try the one on >gatekeeper.dec.com, which is the one DECWRL uses as the gateway >between Internet and DEC's Easynet. I can't remeber the path, but >look for something like wrl-mail11. Unfortunately, it doesn't work correctly with VMS 5.X hosts. It works fine to/from other Ultrix hosts, but mail fails in one direction with the VMS hosts. I've been able to get 5.61 with IDA (from gatekeeper.dec.com) to work with mail11v3 by hacking in the mods from the Ultrix sendmail 5.57 source, but I haven't been able to get sendmail 5.64 + ida + hacking in the decnet mail mods to work. aem -- a.e.mossberg / aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem@umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion You are what you watch. - The Media Foundation
jenst@dxcsjr.cern.ch (Jens Trier Rasmussen) (09/14/90)
aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg) writes: >In <jenst.653220434@dxcsjr.cern.ch> jenst@dxcsjr.cern.ch (Jens Trier Rasmussen) writes: >>If you want to use another mail11 program try the one on >>gatekeeper.dec.com, which is the one DECWRL uses as the gateway >>between Internet and DEC's Easynet. I can't remeber the path, but >>look for something like wrl-mail11. >Unfortunately, it doesn't work correctly with VMS 5.X hosts. It works >fine to/from other Ultrix hosts, but mail fails in one direction >with the VMS hosts. Why ? For us it works just fine with VMS 5.3 hosts and I'm sure that DEC uses VMS 5.X on some nodes in Easynet. -jens
mcneill@eplrx7.uucp (Keith McNeill) (09/14/90)
From article <1990Sep13.021422.22907@comp.vuw.ac.nz>, by Andy.Linton@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Linton): > > I need to be able to use Sendmail 5.64 IDA to talk to DEC's mail11v3 > mailer on an Ultrix box which has DECnet-Ultrix installed. > ... > > What I need is either a replacement for mail11v3 which behaves correctly > or as a very poor second choice details of what I need to do sendmail. > > DEC: please don't do this sort of thing to us - it really sucks! > > Try mail11 from Keith Moore at the U of Tenn. We've been very happy with it here in our little corner of Du Pont. You can ftp it from cs.utk.edu in the directory readonly/mail11. Keith -- Keith D. McNeill | E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co. eplrx7!mcneill@uunet.uu.net | Engineering Physics Laboratory (302) 695-9353/7395 | P.O. Box 80357 | Wilmington, Delaware 19880-0357 -- The UUCP Mailer
moore@betelgeuse.cs.utk.edu (Keith Moore) (09/15/90)
In article <1990Sep13.021422.22907@comp.vuw.ac.nz> Andy.Linton@comp.vuw.ac.nz writes: >I need to be able to use Sendmail 5.64 IDA to talk to DEC's mail11v3 >mailer on an Ultrix box which has DECnet-Ultrix installed. Sorry. You can't do it without modifying sendmail to speak DEC's undocumented extensions to SMTP. Mail-11 sends the message header before the recipient list, but SMTP does things in the opposite order. Furthermore, most remote mail-11 objects do not mail back error messages in the case of failed delivery; instead, the messages are delivered immediately and delivery status is reported back to the sender before the end of the conversation. Vanilla SMTP has no provision for this. I had to address the same problem when writing my mail-11 gateway, but I decided that modifying SMTP was a bad idea. For now, recipients are passed on the command line, and you get best results if you omit the 'm' flag (send to multiple recipients at once) in the mailer description. I have improvements for this problem in the works, so you can have the efficiency win of sending a message to multiple recipients in one transaction, but avoid the problems that occur if delivery for some of them fails. You can get the current version by anonymous ftp to cs.utk.edu (128.169.201.1), directory readonly/mail11, files mail11.tar and mail11d.tar. I'll mail out shar files on request for those that don't have ftp access. Keith Moore Internet: moore@cs.utk.edu University of Tenn. CS Dept. BITNET: moore@utkvx 107 Ayres Hall, UT Campus Telephone: +1 615 974 0822 Knoxville Tennessee 37996-1301 ``Friends don't let friends use YP (or NIS)'' Keith Moore Internet: moore@cs.utk.edu University of Tenn. CS Dept. BITNET: moore@utkvx 107 Ayres Hall, UT Campus Telephone: +1 615 974 0822 Knoxville Tennessee 37996-1301 ``Friends don't let friends use YP (or NIS)''
vixie@wrl.dec.com (Paul Vixie) (09/16/90)
In article <1990Sep14.014457.9171@mthvax.cs.miami.edu> aem@Mthvax.CS.Miami.Edu writes: # In <jenst.653220434@dxcsjr.cern.ch> jenst@dxcsjr.cern.ch (Jens Trier Rasmussen) writes: # >If you want to use another mail11 program try the one on # >gatekeeper.dec.com, which is the one DECWRL uses as the gateway # >between Internet and DEC's Easynet. I can't remeber the path, but # >look for something like wrl-mail11. # # Unfortunately, it doesn't work correctly with VMS 5.X hosts. It works # fine to/from other Ultrix hosts, but mail fails in one direction # with the VMS hosts. That's news to me. I use this stuff to reach DEC's many tens of thousands of VMS machines, and it seems to work pretty smoothly. If there's a problem, I'd love to have more information about it. -- Paul Vixie DEC Western Research Lab <vixie@wrl.dec.com> Palo Alto, California ...!decwrl!vixie
aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg) (09/17/90)
In <1990Sep16.073000.5999@wrl.dec.com> vixie@wrl.dec.com (Paul Vixie) writes: >That's news to me. I use this stuff to reach DEC's many tens of thousands >of VMS machines, and it seems to work pretty smoothly. If there's a problem, >I'd love to have more information about it. Sending mail from VMS hosts worked, although significantly more slowly than with mail11dv3. Mail to/from ULTRIX/DECnet hosts worked without any problems. Mail to VMS hosts failed. I didn't keep the binaries here, but you've told me in private mail that you use this version without any problems and without the DNUMODS I tried to integrate into 5.64 The only problem left with 5.64 on ULTRIX is the DEC's lack of ndbm, and none of the ndbm-clones I've tried being a drop-in replacement. sdbm was tried with marginal success, and gdbm or dbz might be doable with a little work. aem -- a.e.mossberg / aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem@umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion Amo--ergo sum. (I love, therefore I am.) - Alma Mahler Werfel
vixie@wrl.dec.com (Paul Vixie) (09/17/90)
aem@Mthvax.CS.Miami.Edu writes:
# Mail to VMS hosts failed. I didn't keep the binaries here,
# but you've told me in private mail that you use this version without
# any problems and without the DNUMODS I tried to integrate into 5.64
I'm still worried. What you tried should have worked; many others are
using my version (and the original version) of mail11.utk to reach all
the VMS systems available to them -- if you have discovered a problem,
I would very much like to know more about it. Can you rerun your test?
# The only problem left with 5.64 on ULTRIX is the DEC's lack of ndbm,
# and none of the ndbm-clones I've tried being a drop-in replacement.
# sdbm was tried with marginal success, and gdbm or dbz might be doable
# with a little work.
I'm told that Ultrix 4.0 includes ndbm in libc.a, a la 4.3bsd. However,
I've heard from several of the people who've grabbed my sendmail that
gdbm works just fine on Ultrix 2.X and 3.X. I'll probably switch to
gdbm myself at some point, since it's faster or at least has the potential
to be due to its caching design.
--
Paul Vixie
DEC Western Research Lab <vixie@wrl.dec.com>
Palo Alto, California ...!decwrl!vixie