[comp.fonts] Dutch and Swiss

gvr@brunix (George V. Reilly) (11/25/89)

Some clones of Helvetica and Times call themselves "Swiss" and
"Dutch", respectively.  Now, I can understand the reasoning
behind calling Helvetica "Swiss", as Helvetica is Latin for
Switzerland and Helvetica was designed by a Swiss, but I cannot
see why Times is called "Dutch" as Times was designed for the London
_Times_ by an Englishman, Stanley Morison, around 1932.

Can anyone enlighten me?
------
George Reilly				gvr@cs.brown.edu
uunet!brunix!gvr  gvr@browncs.bitnet	Box 1910, Brown U, Prov, RI 02912

mouser@portia.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wang) (11/26/89)

The Bitstream version of Times New Roman is called Dutch because
that is the typeface classification Times New Roman is commonly
placed into. Other typefaces that may be classified as Dutch
include Janson and Caslon.


-Michael Wang

+--------------+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Wang | 325 Melville Avenue, Palo Alto, CA  94301                  |
|--------------+------------------------------------------------------------|
| ARPAnet, CSNET, BITNET, Internet:  mouser@portia.stanford.edu             |
| UUCP:  ...decwrl!portia.stanford.edu!mouser                               |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

wsinkees@lso.win.tue.nl (Kees Huizing) (11/28/89)

gvr@brunix (George V. Reilly) writes:

>Some clones of Helvetica and Times call themselves "Swiss" and
>"Dutch", respectively.  Now, I can understand the reasoning
>behind calling Helvetica "Swiss", as Helvetica is Latin for
>Switzerland and Helvetica was designed by a Swiss, but I cannot
>see why Times is called "Dutch" as Times was designed for the London
>_Times_ by an Englishman, Stanley Morison, around 1932.

>Can anyone enlighten me?

Of course.  In current English the adjective DUTCH stands for stingy (cf.
Dutch party, Dutch treat, etc.).  Times is a font that is very narrow to fit
in newspaper columns, so its space-efficient, or stingy if you want. 
                               
			       :-)

-- 
Kees Huizing - Eindhoven Univ of Techn - Dept Math & Comp Sc - The Netherlands
DOMAIN: wsinkees@win.tue.nl    BITNET: wsdckeesh@heitue5    FAX: +31-40-436685 

briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Brian Diehm) (11/29/89)

>Of course.  In current English the adjective DUTCH stands for stingy (cf.
>Dutch party, Dutch treat, etc.).  Times is a font that is very narrow to fit
>in newspaper columns, so its space-efficient, or stingy if you want. 

In my dealings with Nederlanders, I've found that they are much more aware of
this connotation of "Dutch" than are most North Americans, at least. I can't
speak for Englishmen; I don't speak their language. Anyway, to give an example,
I've never heard of the term "Dutch party." Lighten up you guys, nobody REALLY
believes you're stingy! Except maybe yourselves?

As for the term Dutch in typography, wasn't the Netherlands (and Benelux
region) responsible for many typographers doing serif type styles? Nicholas
Janson, and others? Isn't this style as opposed to the German styles (black-
letter) and Italian styles (suitably named italics) and the Swiss styles (the
sans serifs)? Aren't these regional connotations?

OK, I suppose you have to expand the Dutch region to cover some of France
and a little of England. But the regional nature of the general type styles is
unmistakable.

-- 
-Brian Diehm
Tektronix, Inc.                (503) 627-3437         briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-383
Beaverton, OR   97077                        (SDA - Standard Disclaimers Apply)