gls@corona.ATT.COM (Col. Sicherman) (04/19/91)
In <15009@life.ai.mit.edu>, cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu writes: > ... I am looking for the Microgamma font for ATM for MS Windows. ... > In case you are wondering what Microgamma is, it is the font they use in Star > Trek ... You mean Microgramma. Gamma is a Greek letter that's almost as useless as Psi -- unless you're writing in Greek. I'd rather use Copperplate Gothic than Microgramma for almost anything. -:- "What are these wumps doing here in /usr/games?" --Jumber the Hulk, in _DEC Wars_ -- Col. G. L. Sicherman gls@corona.att.COM
mr@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (Michael Regoli) (04/19/91)
In <1991Apr19.030618.15770@cbnewsh.att.com> gls@corona.ATT.COM (Col. Sicherman) writes: >In <15009@life.ai.mit.edu>, cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu writes: >> ... I am looking for the Microgamma font for ATM for MS Windows. ... >> In case you are wondering what Microgamma is, it is the font they use >> in Star Trek ... >You mean Microgramma. Gamma is a Greek letter that's almost as useless >as Psi -- unless you're writing in Greek. The font you are referring to can be found in the ftp archives of cica.cica.indiana.edu [129.79.20.22] in the file: /ftp/pub/pc/win3/fonts/atm/crillee.zip. -- michael regoli mr@cica.indiana.edu regoli@iubacs.BITNET ..rutgers!iuvax!cica!mr
moss@newsserver.sfu.ca (Barry G. Moss) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.034051.10491@cica.indiana.edu> mr@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (Michael Regoli) writes: >In <1991Apr19.030618.15770@cbnewsh.att.com> gls@corona.ATT.COM (Col. >Sicherman) writes: > >>In <15009@life.ai.mit.edu>, cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu writes: >>> ... I am looking for the Microgamma font for ATM for MS Windows. ... >>> In case you are wondering what Microgamma is, it is the font they use >>> in Star Trek ... > >>You mean Microgramma. Gamma is a Greek letter that's almost as useless >>as Psi -- unless you're writing in Greek. > >The font you are referring to can be found in the ftp archives of >cica.cica.indiana.edu [129.79.20.22] in the file: >/ftp/pub/pc/win3/fonts/atm/crillee.zip. > Is anyone aware if this font is available for the Macintosh and where it would be archived? Barry Moss Simon Fraser University
cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Clifton B. Wood) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.030618.15770@cbnewsh.att.com> gls@corona.ATT.COM (Col. Sicherman) writes: >In <15009@life.ai.mit.edu>, cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu writes: > >You mean Microgramma. Gamma is a Greek letter that's almost as useless >as Psi -- unless you're writing in Greek. Yeah, that is exactly what I mean. Do you have any idea whether or not it is available on any anonymous FTP site? >I'd rather use Copperplate Gothic than Microgramma for almost anything. [ Most of .sig deleted...] Are they close to the same kind of typeset? Thing is is that I am trying to do some banners for someone in that type of style (and possibly banners for the Science-Fiction Con we have down here at Tech (although I missed this one.) >Col. G. L. Sicherman >gls@corona.att.COM Thanks, your help is most appreciated. Also, I am looking for the font in ATM format for MS-DOS machines (ie with .PBM file if possible). But I will take a mac format and will look for a converter if I have to. Cliff cbwood@gnu.ai.mit.edu
cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Clifton B. Wood) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.034051.10491@cica.indiana.edu> mr@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (Michael Regoli) writes: >In <1991Apr19.030618.15770@cbnewsh.att.com> gls@corona.ATT.COM (Col. >Sicherman) writes: > >>> ... I am looking for the Microgamma font for ATM for MS Windows. ... > >The font you are referring to can be found in the ftp archives of >cica.cica.indiana.edu [129.79.20.22] in the file: >/ftp/pub/pc/win3/fonts/atm/crillee.zip. > >michael regoli >mr@cica.indiana.edu >regoli@iubacs.BITNET >..rutgers!iuvax!cica!mr Thanks MUCH! But I heard that the fonts stored there were in MAC format? You wouldn't happen to know if this is true or not, would you? I have been getting most of my font utilities from there but they didn't have any indexes for the individual ZIPs so I never bothered. Thanks a lot for pointing me in the right direction. Another question though, directed at anyone in this newsgroup: Does anyone know how reliable the REFONT utility is in converting MAC fonts to PC ATM fonts? Also: Are there any good font editors out there (ATM format) that have been created for use on Messy-Dos machines? Cliff cbwood@gnu.ai.mit.edu aralyn@eddie.ee.vt.edu
amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (04/20/91)
mr@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (Michael Regoli) writes:
The font you are referring to can be found in the ftp archives of
cica.cica.indiana.edu [129.79.20.22] in the file:
/ftp/pub/pc/win3/fonts/atm/crillee.zip.
That's the one used in "Star Trek: The Next Generation." The old
series did in fact use Microgramma Bold Extended for a number of
things. You can buy it from Adobe if you want: Order the "Eurostile"
package (Eurostile is Microgramma with the addition of lower case
letters).
--
Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com
Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda
-- tim@int13.hf.intel.com (Timothy E. Forsyth) (04/20/91)
moss@newsserver.sfu.ca (Barry G. Moss) writes: >>The font you are referring to can be found in the ftp archives of >>cica.cica.indiana.edu [129.79.20.22] in the file: >>/ftp/pub/pc/win3/fonts/atm/crillee.zip. >Is anyone aware if this font is available for the Macintosh and where >it would be archived? The version of Crillee mentioned above was converted by someone from the Mac version (using Refont I believe). You can find the Mac version and many many more Mac Type 1 and 3 fonts at mac.archive.umich.edu. What follows is an announcement that was posted a few weeks ago. Tim Forsyth >Subject: [fonts] You lucky devils.. a new Macintosh archive site! > >As you know, I've been pushing the macintosh archive on >um-mts.cc.umich.edu and ub-mts.cc.umich.edu for a few months >now.. the major drawback to that system was that it's not a Unix >operating system and it was a pain for people to FTP into..those >archives are still there and still being maintained.. but now.. > >try FTP'ing anonymously to >mac.archive.umich.edu< and >once you're in.. type in cd /archive/mac.. you'll then >find yourself at the top level of a new, MASSIVE Macintosh >archive.. (the fonts can be found in /system.extensions/fonts) > >We have more type one and type three fonts than any other >archive around.. and I'm especially encouraging those of you >with GEnie and Compu$erve access to help us in making this >particular place the next best alternative to sumex-aim.. If >you have anything to submit, there's an "incoming" directory >you can ftp-put things into.. or if that doesn't work.. >type in "cd /umich.edu/users/m/d/mdd/IamaDROPfolder!" and >that'll put you into my personal drop folder directory. >I'm not just interested in fonts, ANYTHING macintosh and >public domain/shareware will do.. if you have any questions >or suggestions, send me mail at dauter@mac.archive.umich.edu, >or mike_dautermann@um.cc.umich.edu or userw72n@umichum.bitnet.. > >I'm not gonna announce this archive on the comp.sys.mac.* >groups for probably another month while I'm putting the last >touches on the archive.. so if you notice things moving around >between sessions, I hope you understand it's just "dust from >construction".. I'm looking forward to hearing any comments >you might have.. thanks! > >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------- >Mike @ ccs.itd.umich.edu >( ( ( ( (( in stereo )) ) ) ) ) >Mike Dautermann - U-M Ann Arbor, Dearborn and the WORLD!! > -- Tim Forsyth, Intel Corp., Desktop Computer Division, Hillsboro, Oregon, USA Internet: tim@int13.intel.com or Tim_Forsyth@ccm.hf.intel.com CompuServe: 74040,2712 (checked once a week)
cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Clifton B. Wood) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.174610.19644@newsserver.sfu.ca> moss@newsserver.sfu.ca (Barry G. Moss) writes: >In article <1991Apr19.034051.10491@cica.indiana.edu> mr@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (Michael Regoli) writes: >>>In <15009@life.ai.mit.edu>, cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu writes: >>>> ... I am looking for the Microgamma font for ATM for MS Windows. ... >>>> In case you are wondering what Microgamma is, it is the font they use >>>> in Star Trek ... >> >>The font you are referring to can be found in the ftp archives of >>cica.cica.indiana.edu [129.79.20.22] in the file: >>/ftp/pub/pc/win3/fonts/atm/crillee.zip. >> > >Is anyone aware if this font is available for the Macintosh and where >it would be archived? > Sorry, I got this and it looks like the font that is used on the credits for Star Trek: The Next Generation. Not exactly what I was looking for, but being a font packrat, I'll take it anyways. It's not a bad job and the person said that he had made the font himself for ATM. I wonder what font editor he used. At any rate, Crillee wasn't exactly what I was looking for. For an example of Microgramma (or Microgamma, etc.) look at the typeset they use to stencil the names of the Ships on the hull or the names of the type of station. It is used fairly much in the interior of the starships in both the movies and the new series. Cliff (looking for just about any Sci-Fi related font...) cbwood@gnu.ai.mit.edu aralyn@eddie.ee.vt.edu >Barry Moss >Simon Fraser University
cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Clifton B. Wood) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.184804.12820@visix.com> amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) writes: > ...You can buy it from Adobe if you want: Order the "Eurostile" >package (Eurostile is Microgramma with the addition of lower case >letters). > Eurostile? Interesting. I had that font a while ago and either it didn't work or my eyes weren't functioning correctly because I didn't think that it bore any resemblance to it. Then again, I might be saying this because the name sounds familiar and in actuality I actually HAVEN'T tried it yet. I'll try it again. Thanks for the suggestion. Cliff cbwood@gnu.ai.mit.edu
kibo@jec311.its.rpi.edu (James 'Kibo' Parry) (04/20/91)
In article <15102@life.ai.mit.edu> cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Clifton B. Woo d) writes: >At any rate, Crillee wasn't exactly what I was looking for. For an example >of Microgramma (or Microgamma, etc.) look at the typeset they use to stencil >the names of the Ships on the hull or the names of the type of station. Microgramma Bold Extended is the ship-name font; it's rather different from plain Microgramma (33% wider and twice as dark, approximately. I digitized it once for someone.) Be sure to get the right font in the family, if you're a real Trekkist :-) Eurostile is the same as Microgramma (the designer, Novarese, redrew it-- the difference is that Eurostile has lowercase.) Eurostile is also available in Bold Extended. Crillee is used in the credits of The Next Generation, as you said. For a lot of the interior ship stuff in The Next Generation they've been using Helvetica Condensed. I think it's a better choice than the Microgramma family to be used in the context of a future setting, because Microgramma already looks rather dated (50s/60s). Of course, Microgramma was contemporary-looking when the original Trek was done. Similarly, the custom font the use for the movie titles has a seventies look to it, probably because the first movie was filmed in the 70s. The logo for The Next Generation is derived from Stop, a typeface that's been around a while but is now becoming incredibly overused in logos that want to look high-tech; in a few years designers like me will be looking at The Next Generation and saying "oh, that logo is so late-eighties-looking", I'll wager. Stop and Yagi Double were also used extensively for Battlestar Galactica. Since you say you're interested in other "science fiction" fonts, and I stare at the fonts when I watch science fiction, here are some others worth mentioning: Futura Black (a stencil-like font derived from condensed Futura.) It was used in the first season Space:1999 titles, the Buckaroo Banzai titles, and many other things. I don't know why people consider it futuristic-looking; to me it seems rather Art Deco or Bahaus. (It's about fifty years old now, and is--I think--one of the best solid-looking fonts.) Baby Teeth and Sinaloa are also often used for futuristic-looking letters; they're both extremely simplified, solid black capitals (Baby Teeth has a single white notch in most characters; Sinaloa has racing stripes.) They, like the others I mention, can be found in a Letraset catalog. One of my pet projects is to design some lettering that looks like how *I* think alphabets will be simplified in the future (which, of course, differs from how people like Paul Renner and so on have done simplified alphabets, because it's a very personal opinion.) A major catch is that it depends on what context the font will be used in; a dystopian police state might like very standard block letters, all caps (say Futura or Helvetica) while an artistically-oriented leisure society might go for more humanistic, flowing scripts. So far I've come up with a few predictions for fonts for the far future, and my sketches have been sufficiently weird-looking to keep me from wanting to ever use them :-) They have provided inspiration for other projects, though. If you're designing the look of a world for a science fiction show or film, it makes sense to me that you'd want to hire someone to draw some original lettering--not only would you have more control over the look of the world, but you'd also avoid having something that looked 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s... (after all, you wouldn't put a chair designed in 1985 in a room that needs 24th-century furniture, would you?) I think the most successful--in terms of imaginative design that's not dated--is the numbering on the cars in Blade Runner. Very odd-looking, distorted letters, but with digitized stairsteps in them 9the jaggies keep the warped letters from looking 60s.) Note, though, that the titles of Blade Runner were set in Goudy Old Style, which conveys a very old-fashioned, classy impression which I feel was quite inappropriate. -- James "Kibo" Parry kibo@rpi.edu 132 Beacon St. #213, Boston, MA 02116 (617) 262-3922
leoh@hardy.hdw.csd.harris.com (Leo Hinds) (04/21/91)
In article <1991Apr19.184804.12820@visix.com> amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) writes: >That's the one used in "Star Trek: The Next Generation." The old >series did in fact use Microgramma Bold Extended for a number of >things. You can buy it from Adobe if you want: Order the "Eurostile" >package (Eurostile is Microgramma with the addition of lower case >letters). Well if that is the case cica.cica.indiana.edu [129.79.20.22] can help again ... they have two versions (interpretations by two different people) of EUROSTILE (for ATM/PC) ... that are somewhere under /ftp/pub/pc/win3/fonts leoh@hdw.csd.harris.com Leo Hinds (305)973-5229 Gfx ... gfx ... :-) whfg orpnhfr V "ebg"grq zl fvtangher svyr lbh guvax V nz n creireg ?!!!!!!? ... znlor arkg gvzr
cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Clifton B. Wood) (04/21/91)
You bring up some interesting points that I have also been thinking about as we well, James. In article <+=pg0!=@rpi.edu> kibo@jec311.its.rpi.edu (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: >Microgramma Bold Extended is the ship-name font; it's rather different >from plain Microgramma (33% wider and twice as dark, approximately. I >digitized it once for someone.) Be sure to get the right font in the >family, if you're a real Trekkist :-) Yeah, I have a Letraset catalogue and I did not the difference between Microgramma and Microgramma Bold Extended. I woudn't mind having both, actually. I'll state my reasons for all of this later in this article. >Eurostile is the same as Microgramma (the designer, Novarese, redrew it-- >the difference is that Eurostile has lowercase.) Eurostile is also >available in Bold Extended. > Really? I did look at Microgramma plain in my Letraset catalogue and noticed a moderate difference in the aspect ration of plain Microgramma and a printout I had of Eurostile. Eurostile is nice and everything, but I prefer my letters to be a bit wider than they are taller...don't ask me why...<grin>. >For a lot of the interior ship stuff in The Next Generation they've been >using Helvetica Condensed. I think it's a better choice than the >Microgramma family to be used in the context of a future setting, because >Microgramma already looks rather dated (50s/60s). Of course, >Microgramma was contemporary-looking when the original Trek was done. Hmmm, OK, I think I can agree with you on this one, slightly. I will say that after experimenting with the fonts for a while, I did take a lok at Helvetica Condensed and it did look like the Station Names on TNG. Fine. I have that one now. But like I said, my preference is still with slightly wider letters than tall ones. Microgramma Bold Extended is still one of my favorite sets. >Stop and Yagi Double were also used extensively for Battlestar >Galactica. Since you say you're interested in other "science fiction" >fonts, and I stare at the fonts when I watch science fiction, here are >some others worth mentioning: I fell in love with stop when I was a Battlestar Galactica junkie in the 70's. Mainly because it was so strange looking and yes, it still is strange looking, but you are right, it HAS been over used. Still interested in finding that one just to play around with it. >Futura Black (a stencil-like font derived from condensed Futura.) It >was used in the first season Space:1999 titles, the Buckaroo Banzai >titles, and many other things. I don't know why people consider it [rest of paragraph deleted...] Hmmm. I was playing around with what little Futura I had working and I didn't notice that. No, I agree with you on the fact that futura doesn't look THAT futuristic looking. More like exactly what it is. Stylized Serif. >Baby Teeth and Sinaloa are also often used for futuristic-looking >letters; they're both extremely simplified, solid black capitals (Baby >Teeth has a single white notch in most characters; Sinaloa has racing >stripes.) They, like the others I mention, can be found in a >Letraset catalog. Baby Teeth and Sinaloa never struck me as futuristic looking. Baby Teeth looked just a bit too 40's or 30's is to me. Looked like something that you would see on a Broadway show. Sinaloa just looks to me like letters in motion rather than a font that I would see something like street signs lettered in. >One of my pet projects is to design some lettering that looks like how >*I* think alphabets will be simplified in the future (which, of course, [rest of paragraph deleted.] Same here. I am trying to think of a good way to design an "alien script" using bits and pieces of interesting fonts and lettersets as bases for more ideas. For a project I am working on a friend with. Not that these fonts are just as references for stuff that HAS been done so that we know what NOT to do or imitate. >If you're designing the look of a world for a science fiction show or >film, it makes sense to me that you'd want to hire someone to draw some >original lettering--not only would you have more control over the look >of the world, but you'd also avoid having something that looked 20s, >30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s... (after all, you wouldn't put a >chair designed in 1985 in a room that needs 24th-century furniture, >would you?) Yeah, I think you hit it right on the nose there, but I would like to try my hand at it. Or at least have my friend work on it since he is a MUCH better artist than I am (hell, I can barely do stick figures right, although I am a fairly decent at CAD programs...) Speaking of futuristic lettering for lets say, America in 10 years. I figure letters are going to get more and more simplistic for general use. Kind of like helvetica (which I think has a LONG lifespan left in it yet) but just a bit more square in terms of aspect ratio. (my $.02) <grin.> > >James "Kibo" Parry kibo@rpi.edu >132 Beacon St. #213, Boston, MA 02116 >(617) 262-3922 Yeah, thanks for the info. Cliff cbwood@gnu.ai.mit.edu aralyn@eddie.ee.vt.edu Still ".sig" less!
amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (04/22/91)
In article <15125@life.ai.mit.edu> cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Clifton B. Wood) writes: Same here. I am trying to think of a good way to design an "alien script" using bits and pieces of interesting fonts and lettersets as bases for more ideas. Try taking a look at Armenian type or calligraphy. It's a European but non-Roman script, which looks pretty odd to someone who's used to the Roman alphabet... -- Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda -- Marching to a different kettle of fish.
cbwood@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Clifton B. Wood) (04/23/91)
In article <1991Apr22.160701.3725@visix.com> amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) writes: [deleted: my project about designing an "alien script"] >Try taking a look at Armenian type or calligraphy. It's a European but >non-Roman script, which looks pretty odd to someone who's used to the >Roman alphabet... Yes, I was planning on looking into some foreign language characters as bases for how to make some script look COMPLETELY different from Arabic. Not that I say that I plan to use these as bases. I have no desire to copy some letter straight out of the Encyclopedia. I want this piece of work to be as original as possible. Thanks for your suggestion though. >-- >Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com >Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda >-- -------------------------- Cliff cbwood@gnu.ai.mit.edu aralyn@eddie.ee.vt.edu "And remember, my son: Nothing is ever absolute..." said the teacher before he dissappeared from this plain like a passing tought through an open mind. "Purple Rain! Purple Rain!" -- Prince, probably one of the best musical talents who has ever lived.
ruslan@uncecs.edu (Robin C. LaPasha) (04/25/91)
Actually, though Armenian has a lovely flair, you may also want to look at Glagolitic script. (Not to get too involved, it was what Slavic folks got right before Cyrillic. If this were sci.lang I'd go into details but...) Glagolitic _apparently_ had a neat way of adding vowels, as extra strokes on the consonant letters... which themselves were very nice and ROUND. My favorite book on this sort of esoteric Slavic stuff is Ionchev and Ioncheva's "Dreven i suvremenin bulgarski shrift"; despite the Bulgarian text, most of it is pretty pictures of font faces, both (ancient and modern) Cyrillic and Glagolitic. -- Robin LaPasha |Keeper of the Amiga ruslan@ecsvax.uncecs.edu |Hypermedia Mailing List