norman@d.cs.okstate.edu (Norman Graham) (06/27/91)
I recently purchased Adobe Caslon and its expert set. I'm very happy with
the face, but I don't know when to use the long s and its ligatures (ss, sh,
si, sl, and st). The sample copy in the Adobe Caslon book provides no clues
for the proper use of long s in modern English copy; the typesetter seems to
use long and short s as though they are equivalent characters. For example,
in one sentence, 'circumstance' has two spellings, one with a short st
ligature and one with a long st ligature.
I hope someone on the net will take the time to explain long s usage to me.
I promise to post a summary of the responses.
Overall, I find sample copy difficult to read. The roman long s looks too
much like an 'f' to my eyes. I suspect most readers will agree. Is it
possible to make long s part of our culture's visual vocabulary again?
Yours,
Norm
--
Norman Graham
<norman@a.cs.okstate.edu> Standard Disclaimer Applies
{cbosgd,rutgers}!okstate!normangraham@june.cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham) (06/29/91)
In article <1991Jun27.161019.5836@d.cs.okstate.edu> norman@d.cs.okstate.edu (Norman Graham) writes: I suspect that the two different settings of circumstance were intended to show off the long-s ligature and the short-s ligature. >I hope someone on the net will take the time to explain long s usage to me. >I promise to post a summary of the responses. I can't pretend to be authoratative, but... The long-s should be used when the letter s occurs within a word, except when two or more s's appear in a row, such as asset. In this case, the first s should be a long s, and the second a short s. Incidentally, this is the origin of the German eszet. Short s should always be used as the last character in a word. As for the first character, I've seen both long and short variants used. I would tend to use the short variant as being more distinctive. >Overall, I find sample copy difficult to read. The roman long s looks too >much like an 'f' to my eyes. I suspect most readers will agree. Is it >possible to make long s part of our culture's visual vocabulary again? It probably won't make it back, simply because it looks too similar to an f. The only time I've used it was deliberately copying an 18th- century look. However, I wouldn't mind seeing thorn return to common usage. -- Stephen Graham graham@cs.washington.edu (206) 543-8115
kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) (06/29/91)
In article <1991Jun28.230944.12624@beaver.cs.washington.edu> graham@june.cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham) writes: >In article <1991Jun27.161019.5836@d.cs.okstate.edu> norman@d.cs.okstate.edu (Norman Graham) writes: >I can't pretend to be authoratative, but... The long-s should be used when >the letter s occurs within a word, except when two or more s's appear >in a row, such as asset. In this case, the first s should be a long s, >and the second a short s. Incidentally, this is the origin of the >German eszet. Short s should always be used as the last character in >a word. As for the first character, I've seen both long and short variants >used. I would tend to use the short variant as being more distinctive. I would agree with this. Note that if you use the long s, you may need extra ligatures (sh, etc.) Also, you may want the ct and st ligatures just to fully capture the old styles... Giampa's wonderful implementation of Lanston Caslon Oldstyle 337 has all these (and all the Giampa promotional materials use the st and ct ligatures all over the place, they get very distracting when they're used but the other old characters aren't.) The Giampa fonts also offer both long and short versions of descenders, lining and hanging (old-style) digits, and other goodies even beyond that which you can get in Adobe Expert Sets. (Of course, they're pricey... but worth it.) One of my favorite periods in typographical history was the German Deco period; my collection includes reproductions of several posters that show the long s used in geometric sans-serif typefaces (it was even available for Futura, originally, as were the old-style digits and other fun things that have been discarded along the trail to DTP.) German Deco and Bahaus styles are responsible for a great deal of influence on my own work. >>Overall, I find sample copy difficult to read. The roman long s looks too >>much like an 'f' to my eyes. I suspect most readers will agree. Is it >>possible to make long s part of our culture's visual vocabulary again? > >It probably won't make it back, simply because it looks too similar to >an f. The only time I've used it was deliberately copying an 18th- >century look. However, I wouldn't mind seeing thorn return to common >usage. Ben Franklin maintained that the long s made for easier reading (in his times, the short s was taking over), because it added more ascenders (and descenders, for italic) to the word, making the shape of the word less monotone. He also didn't like the contemporary trend of not putting a Capital at the front of every Noun, for the same Reason. (Although he lost those battles, he was very good at picking fonts. He used Caslon before it was popular in America, and he was a strong proponent of Baskerville's type when it was very first introduced--when most other printers thought it was an abomination. Some even maintained it would make readers go blind. Some very amusing correspondence between Franklin and Baskerville exists, in which Franklin recounts taking a specimen sheet of Caslon type to local printers and asking, "This is Baskerville's new type, what's wrong with it?" and being told how horrible it looked.) 99% (I imagine) of people these days, when they seey a roman long s, will pronounce it "f" (as in Benny Hill's "Fad-Eyed Fal" ftory), just as the thorn changed to a "y" ("Ye Olde Souvenir Shoppe"). I can see "thistle", written with the thorn and long s, being read "piftle", etc. An interesting point related to the long s is that in the alphabets cut for the French royal presses, the l had the same little bump that the long s had, meaning that s, f, l matched quite interestingly. That's something that was pretty much never done elsewhere; when you see an l with a bump you can probably guess it was printed for the King. -- .............................................................................. James "Kibo" Parry kibo@world.std.com Independent graphic designer 271 Dartmouth St. #3D, Boston, MA 02116 specializing in logo and (617) 262-3922 typeface design.
sean@castle.ed.ac.uk (S Matthews) (06/29/91)
graham@june.cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham) writes: >I can't pretend to be authoratative, but... The long-s should be used when >the letter s occurs within a word, except when two or more s's appear >in a row, such as asset. In this case, the first s should be a long s, >and the second a short s. Incidentally, this is the origin of the >German eszet. This is not quite true; the eszet is a ligature of a long s and a z, which you can see if you open any book set in a `German' font. In roman fonts it has been distorted so much that it is difficult to see what happened. Sean -- Sean Matthews 80 South Bridge, Edinburgh, UK Dept. of Artificial Intelligence +44 (0) 31 650 2722 University of Edinburgh sean@castle.ed.ac.uk