work@dragos.UUCP (Dragos Ruiu) (03/28/88)
IS A/UX available to joe nobody ?
Can you run two terminals out the back end of a Mac II ?
How much will it cost ?
What is the price/performance breakdown compared to similarly
equipped 386 boxes ?
[These have probably been hashed out in comp.sys.mac, but sorry
I just can't deal with the volume there...]
--
Dragos Ruiu ruiu@dragos.UUCP
...alberta!dragos!ruiu "cat ansi.c | grep -v noalias >proper.c"kateley@Apple.COM (Jim Kateley) (03/29/88)
In article <399@dragos.UUCP> work@dragos.UUCP (Dragos Ruiu) writes: >IS A/UX available to joe nobody ? > Yes. >Can you run two terminals out the back end of a Mac II ? Yes, you can edit your /etc/inittab file to spawn getty's on the serial ports. >-- >Dragos Ruiu ruiu@dragos.UUCP > ...alberta!dragos!ruiu "cat ansi.c | grep -v noalias >proper.c" -- Jim Kateley UUCP: {sun, voder, nsc, mtxinu, dual}!apple!kateley S,P,HnS! DOMAIN: kateley@apple.COM Applelink: kateley1 Disclaimer: What I say, think, or smell does not reflect any policy or stray thought by Apple Computer, Inc.
chiefdan@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Chief Dan Roth) (03/29/88)
In article <399@dragos.UUCP> work@dragos.UUCP (Dragos Ruiu) writes: >IS A/UX available to joe nobody ? Yes. Joe NOBODY can get it, because it isn't finished yet. Release has been rescheduled for "early summer". Pretty interesting having a newsgroup for something that won't exist for a few months. -- "I promise, if elected, I will borrow even-larger amounts of money in order to keep pace with the ever-increasing interest payments on the national debt!" "You've got my vote! So long as you don't cut spending or raise taxes." -Stamaty ARPA: chiefdan@vax1.acs.udel.edu UUCP: BACKBONE!vax1.acs.udel.edu!chiefdan
gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (03/29/88)
In article <399@dragos.UUCP> work@dragos.UUCP (Dragos Ruiu) writes: > IS A/UX available to joe nobody ? We (the Grasshopper Group) have been trying to figure this out for a while, since we're trying to sell a software product for A/UX (MacNews). I called Wendy Weinstein in Apple Customer Relations (+1 408 996 1010) and got the following information. As of this week, there are 7 (seven) dealers in the world who are allowed to sell A/UX. None of them are permitted to sell by mail order, so if you don't live near one, go get a PC Clone and Xenix instead. (Or buy a Sun -- though Sun makes it almost this hard to buy machines.) The dealers: (drum roll...) Alpha Computers Lake Oswego, OR 503 636 7208 Computer & Software House Oak Ridge, TN 615 481 0014 Computer Madness Englishtown, NJ 201 462 9696 Eastern Computer Knoxville, TN 615 584 8365 Microcomputer Systems Bellevue, WA 206 455 8822 Microcomputer Systems Linwood, WA 206 778 7337 Vista Computer Center S. Plainfield, NJ 201 769 0040 There may be some typos in this; I got it over the phone. But I figured with Apple posting useful answers like: "Is A/UX available?" "Yes.", that somebody had better provide some real information here. -- {pyramid,pacbell,amdahl,sun,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@toad.com "Watch me change my world..." -- Liquid Theatre
phil@Apple.COM (Phil Ronzone) (03/30/88)
In article <906@udccvax1.acs.udel.EDU> chiefdan@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Chief Dan) writes: >In article <399@dragos.UUCP> work@dragos.UUCP (Dragos Ruiu) writes: >>IS A/UX available to joe nobody ? > >Yes. Joe NOBODY can get it, because it isn't finished yet. >Release has been rescheduled for "early summer". > >Pretty interesting having a newsgroup for something that won't exist for a few >months. I do not know where "Chief Dan" acquired the misinformation, but A/UX is real and IS shipping now. The factory was actually making A/UX system in 1987 so that they could be warehoused and ready for immediate shipment on the day that John Sculley did the keynote at Uniforum. A/UX began shipping that very same day. And I even personally know people who have bought it! Sorry that you were misinformed, "Chief Dan". -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philip K. Ronzone, A/UX Technical Manager APPLELINK: RONZONE1 Apple Computer, Mail Stop 27AJ, 10500 N. DeAnza Blvd. Cupertino, CA 95014 UUCP: ...!{sun,voder,nsc,mtxinu,dual,unisoft}!apple!phil
chiefdan@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Chief Dan Roth) (03/30/88)
In article <906@udccvax1.acs.udel.EDU> chiefdan@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Chief Dan) writes: >Yes. Joe NOBODY can get it, because it isn't finished yet. >Release has been rescheduled for "early summer". Well, I stand corrected, updated, etcetera. However, my "misinformation" came from Apple Computer and/or the ICEC. (ICEC is something like " Intercollegiate Consortium (sp?) on Education Computing") I'm currently working on research funded by Apple through ICEC and received a memo with the "early summer" release listed on it. SO WHEN DO I GET MY COPY? (And my additional RAM?) Anyone else going to be @ Apple on August 8th? -- "I promise, if elected, I will borrow even-larger amounts of money in order to keep pace with the ever-increasing interest payments on the national debt!" "You've got my vote! So long as you don't cut spending or raise taxes." -Stamaty ARPA: chiefdan@vax1.acs.udel.edu UUCP: BACKBONE!vax1.acs.udel.edu!chiefdan
benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) (03/30/88)
In article <4270@hoptoad.uucp>, gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: > As of this week, there are 7 (seven) dealers in the world who are > allowed to sell A/UX. None of them are permitted to sell by mail order, > so if you don't live near one, go get a PC Clone and Xenix instead. > (Or buy a Sun -- though Sun makes it almost this hard to buy machines.) I did just that...it wasn't that hard buying a Sun :-) This must be a clever Apple marketing ploy...seriously Apple just doesn't seem to take A/UX seriously ... this is the most ridiculous distribution scheme I have ever heard of! Couple this with the A/UX on a disk controversy ... are these people for real? Are they making life a living hell for those that want A/UX hoping that these people will move on to MacOS... ------------------------- Naturally my opinions are my own and not those of my employers.
garrett@udel.EDU (Joel Garrett) (03/30/88)
In article <1819@ssc-vax.UUCP> benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) writes: >This must be a clever Apple marketing ploy...seriously Apple just >doesn't seem to take A/UX seriously ... this is the most ridiculous >distribution scheme I have ever heard of! Couple this with the A/UX >on a disk controversy ... are these people for real? Are they >making life a living hell for those that want A/UX hoping that these >people will move on to MacOS... Is thise really the case? There has been a lot of skepticism in the MacPress about Apple's intentions with A/UX (So you want to buy a Mac II, and your boss says it has to run Unix? Yeah, we can do that! But why would you want to do that when you get all these neat programs that run under MacOS... :-) I hope this isn't the case. I remember Xenix on the Lisa - just barely. It wasn't all that memorable - they essentially just took away all the user interface stuff and made it just another Unix box, which it didn't do a very good job at. Of course most of the press releases have Apple showing itself as being very committed to A/UX, but from several of the meetings that I have been to seem to point up to me that Apple may have started A/UX as "me too" but may be changing their strategy due to the response they've been getting to it. (Wow, people really do want to run Unix on this puppy - maybe we better spend some more time on getting it right! ;-) Personally, I'm all for it but then again Apple has always gone for the broader market - not just the guys that program the systems most of the time. And now for some A/UX questions... Is anyone working on an AppleShare server for A/UX? How about X-Windows? Anyone have any suggestions for optimal system configurations to run A/UX (besides "as much RAM and HD space as you can afford")? Would a beefed-out II make a decent NFS server for a lab of IIs, or would something like a Sun-server be a better idea? Thanks in advance, Joel Garrett Research Associate University of Delaware, CCM Newark, De 19716 arpa: garrett@udel.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Michael J. Fox has no Elvis in him!" - MoJo Nixon
ray3rd@ssc-vax.UUCP (Ray E Saddler III) (03/30/88)
In article <4270@hoptoad.uucp>, gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: > > As of this week, there are 7 (seven) dealers in the world who are > allowed to sell A/UX. None of them are permitted to sell by mail order, > > The dealers: (drum roll...) [Edited for television] > Microcomputer Systems Linwood, WA 206 778 7337 Lynnwood Like I said, small insignificant typo > > There may be some typos in this; I got it over the phone. > {pyramid,pacbell,amdahl,sun,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@toad.com -- | Ray E. Saddler III | __ __ __ __ | Path: ..!ssc-vax!ray3rd | | Boeing Aerospace | / / / // //| // | From: ray3rd@ssc-vax.UUCP | | P.O. Box 3999 m.s. 3R-05 | /-< / //- // |// _ |---------------------------| | Seattle, Wa. 98124 USA | /__//_//__ // //__/ | VoiceNet: (206) 657-2824 |
cosmos@druhi.ATT.COM (GuestRA) (03/31/88)
In article <4270@hoptoad.uucp>, gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: > In article <399@dragos.UUCP> work@dragos.UUCP (Dragos Ruiu) writes: > > IS A/UX available to joe nobody ? > > As of this week, there are 7 (seven) dealers in the world who are > allowed to sell A/UX. None of them are permitted to sell by mail order, We have been trying to order A/UX, including meeting with Apple and our local dealer, and are told there is no way we can be allowed to order A/UX until a dealer is approved in our state (Colorado). I think Apple's reasoning here is extremely flawed, since we are Unix experts. Word is it will be months before a dealer is named in our state. Fortunately, Apple recently named AT&T a national account and we are now in the privileged set of people allowed to order A/UX without a dealer. Ronald A. Guest, Supervisor ...!ihnp4!druhi!cosmos AT&T Laboratories <--- but these are my thoughts, not theirs 12110 N. Pecos St. Denver, Colorado 80234 (303) 538-4896
wilson@ji.Berkeley.EDU (James E. Wilson) (03/31/88)
In article <4270@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >In article <399@dragos.UUCP> work@dragos.UUCP (Dragos Ruiu) writes: >> IS A/UX available to joe nobody ? > >As of this week, there are 7 (seven) dealers in the world who are >allowed to sell A/UX. None of them are permitted to sell by mail order, >so if you don't live near one, go get a PC Clone and Xenix instead. >(Or buy a Sun -- though Sun makes it almost this hard to buy machines.) Thanks for the info, John. Although AUX is targeted for the University enviroment, it is not easy to get in universities either. Currently, UC Berkeley is still negotiating with Apple on how A/UX will be distributed. I was told that there are only a few universities where one can purchase A/UX at the moment. Meanwhile, UCB expects to have an agreement "in about a month". So, I am still waiting for my copy, too. Developers have no problem getting A/UX boxes. (They are even shipping with 1 MB SIMMS in them!). Perhaps those us that want A/UX should try to become developers, after all, 'code devleopment' is what I am going to do with my A/UX box anyways. Jim Wilson "If it is only a game, then why keep score?" wilson@ji.Berkeley.EDU Worf - Star Trek: The Next Generation ucbvax!ucbji!wilson
benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) (03/31/88)
In article <1793@louie.udel.EDU>, garrett@udel.EDU (Joel Garrett) writes: > Would a beefed-out II make a decent NFS server for a lab of IIs, or would > something like a Sun-server be a better idea? The read/write benchmarks given in the mac newsgroup showed that A/UX on a Mac II is as much as 3 to 5 times slower than the lowest end Sun (3/50)... what do you think. I think a Sun server would be the obvious choice. I doubt that you will see too many people using Mac IIs as servers. The machine is just too slow. (Some people attribute this to the LACK of a DMA others attribute it to the choice of SYS5 (vsBSD4.2) file structure -in any case its slow).
alan@mtxinu.UUCP (Alan Tobey) (04/01/88)
In article <1793@louie.udel.EDU>, garrett@udel.EDU (Joel Garrett) writes: > In article <1819@ssc-vax.UUCP> benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) writes: > > >This must be a clever Apple marketing ploy...seriously Apple just > >doesn't seem to take A/UX seriously ... this is the most ridiculous > >distribution scheme I have ever heard of! Couple this with the A/UX > >on a disk controversy ... are these people for real? Are they > >making life a living hell for those that want A/UX hoping that these > >people will move on to MacOS... > > Is thise really the case? There has been a lot of skepticism in the MacPress > about Apple's intentions with A/UX (So you want to buy a Mac II, and your > boss says it has to run Unix? Yeah, we can do that! But ) why would you want to I think an instructive analogy here is the way DEC has dealt with unix via its Ultrix version. DEC, like Apple, was dragged kicking and screaming into the unix world by finally realizing it couldn't ignore the potential market, even though its entire strategy has been to push its own proprietary operating system. Both companies' management loathe unix; Jobs absolutely refused any consideration of a unix version (essentially killed the lisa version that Unisoft did for them), and Ken Olsen, president of DEC, can be relied on to make at least one "piss on unix" speech a year -- recently he described unix as "snake oil." DEC's explicit strategy (I've seen internal memos) is "if you can't possibly sell the customer on VMS, then sell Ultrix." And both Ultrix and A/UX, I predict, will continue to lag in the introduction of interesting new "outside" unix technology while they work to "proprietize" the product -- DEC was 2 1/2 years late with NFS. etc., etc. Bottom line: don't expect too much from Apple, despite constant public pronouncements about "vital to our overall strategy" and the like, and despite lots of committed and talented people in the A/UX group. Unix just doesn't fit the culture. P.S. The joint Apple-DEC mutual connectivity announcement, from this perspective, seems like a marriage made in heaven. Now they can both reinforce each others' proprietary strategy: note that their grand product scheme involves (at bottom) connectivity between Mac OS/Appleshare and VMS/DECNET. If you ask either company about UNIX connectivity, the answer is "Huh?"
gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (04/03/88)
gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) wrote: > As of this week, there are 7 (seven) dealers in the world who are > allowed to sell A/UX... Some more info: We called three of them last week. None of the three has A/UX. They have been "selected" but not trained yet, so Apple will not ship them A/UX. They don't even have a demonstration unit, let alone sellable copies. The three we reached were: > Alpha Computers Lake Oswego, OR 503 636 7208 > Microcomputer Systems Bellevue, WA 206 455 8822 > Microcomputer Systems Lynnwood, WA 206 778 7337 Also, we (the Grasshopper Group) ordered a Mac-II with A/UX through the Certified Developer program a few weeks ago. It arrived on Thursday. So ordinary Certified Developers *can* buy A/UX, BY MAIL ORDER EVEN!, though it still seems that mortals can't. If Apple would extend this service to everybody, I strongly suspect it would have more A/UX customers! PS: To become a developer, you have to submit a business plan. If they like it, they will sell you hardware at about 50% of list, and supposedly give you access to secret technical info and such. It makes Macs downright price-competitive! Our plan was one or two pages long and they didn't mind. It must be an interesting job, reading the business plans of all the companies that claim to be developing Mac products, kind of like reading the trade rags a year in advance... -- {pyramid,pacbell,amdahl,sun,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@toad.com "Don't fuck with the name space!" -- Hugh Daniel
dlw@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (David Williams) (04/05/88)
But wait it gets even better! If you are a certified developer you certainly can order and get an AUX system however, you must obtain *UPDATES* from an A/UX dealer! So, lets see, I order A/UX, but find that X Windows does not come with A/UX yet...well I guess I could get it on the update tape, but wait...I can't order the update service! Then of course there is the *On-line* support which only costs a *MERE $3395* a *YEAR!!!!!*. (Of course individuals will not be buying this, as they could just as soon buy a new 386 box each year and put Xenix on it.) At this point I am even afraid to ask how much the update service costs!! Not that you can get that either. Frankly, this just puts A/UX in the category of marketing trojan horse to get Mac II's into government and fortune 200 corporations. They obviously do not want INDIVIDUALS buying A/UX. Does the Mac run Un*x? Why of course Mr checklist it does! But, you just can't *BUY* A/UX. Certainly not in California, the home of Apple. A/UX is not intended to be a true alternative OS for the Mac, it is merely there along with MS/DOS coprocessor cards to make it past the checklist for required features for a computer. They obviously want to make sales to the military, the government and universities, not individuals. Of course, this only makes sense, apple really wants people tied to their proprietary OS not one which would be easy to move from one hardware platform to another. So I guess Apples new motto should be: Apple, we want to change the world, one CORPORATE desktop at a time. So, buy the Mac II if you want a faster, *COLOR* Macintosh, not a Un*x workstation as well, cause if you are not in big business you will not be able to afford it! And I guess that we will all have to wait for Sun to announce shipment of the Roadrunner and for Steve Job's to do the same for the NeXt machine, if we want a real Un*x box. Then we'll get Un*x, X and NeWs. -David Disclaimer: My personal opinions here, for what they are worth. "And So friends we bid Apple a fond farewell, as they steam off into the Sunset with visions of huge corporate sales dancing in their heads, while their original users are cast off and slowly drift toward other manufacturers"