jk@Apple.COM (John Kullmann) (04/11/88)
GEEZ! I am having fun yet or WHAT!!!! All this entertainment watching a few UNIX dweebs and twits in a flame-fest like I've never seen and I don't even have to pay for it!! John Gilmore gets the honors for the most flames in a batch, and Geoff get the honors for the silliest flame, to wit: > >According to what I've read, the "obvious thing" you are missing is this: > > A/UX is a schmuck, second-rate, half-baked product. > Please keep those flames and slanderous statements coming... Disclaimer: Apple does not endorse my calling the flamers 'dweebs' and 'twits'. -- John Kullmann Apple Computer Inc. Voice: 408-973-2939 Fax: 408-973-6489
alibaba@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Alexander M. Rosenberg) (04/11/88)
I partly agree, but who might I ask are you? Your .signature does not identify you title or position at Apple, which would qualify your right to call anybody a 'dweeb' or 'twit', no matter how appropriate. Did you work on A/UX, or any particular part of it??? Should certain questions be directed to you, or is your presence on the net for flaming? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Alexander M. Rosenberg - INTERNET: alibaba@ucscb.ucsc.edu - Yoyodyne - - Crown College, UCSC - UUCP:...!ucbvax!ucscc!ucscb!alibaba- Propulsion - - Santa Cruz, CA 95064 - BITNET:alibaba%ucscb@ucscc.BITNET - Systems - - (408) 426-8869 - Disclaimer: Nobody is my employer - :-) - - - so nobody cares what I say. - -
earleh@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU (Earle R. Horton) (04/13/88)
In article <7937@apple.Apple.Com>, jk@Apple.COM (John Kullmann) writes: > GEEZ! I am having fun yet or WHAT!!!! All this entertainment watching > a few UNIX dweebs and twits in a flame-fest like I've never seen and I > don't even have to pay for it!! John Gilmore gets the honors for the > most flames in a batch, and Geoff get the honors for the silliest flame, > to wit: > > > >According to what I've read, the "obvious thing" you are missing is this: > > > > A/UX is a schmuck, second-rate, half-baked product. ... > -- > John Kullmann I would have to agree with John that calling A/UX "schmuck, second rate" is silly. But "half-baked"? Let's look at this a bit, shall we? Sure, A/UX has lots of potential, and the ToolBox should allow for lots of nifty graphics and applications to be developed someday. The problem here, however, is this: We have A/UX, but we can't get any memory! We did manage to get a 1 Meg kit, so now we have a Mac II running A/UX with enough space for maybe 4 user processes after we get all our network junk going. Definitely half-baked, and the needed upgrade kit is nowhere in sight. The minimum hardware configuration for A/UX is 2 Meg of RAM, exactly, and they ship it with the sources for GNU EMACS! Gnu emacs runs in about 700k of core in most systems, and I have to call my VMS copy of it "microemacs" so the system administrator won't look too closely at how much of system resources I am consuming (he's touchy about that). And if he knew I ran it as a sub-job of my login! Gnu emacs runs on a Mac II with 2 Meg, but after you get more than about a page of text loaded, it's freak-out time. Try "control-H-t" so you can get the tutorial, then watch your login session die! And so it goes. The latest thing I discovered is there is no vt200 terminfo entry! Sure, it's in /etc/termcap, but half the programs use terminfo instead! "Man" won't run if you login and do "eval `tset -s vt200`". Incredible! Yes, we are dealing with a half-baked system here. There are utilties which don't work, there are delays in shipment of hardware and manuals, and there is no way to write to an 800k HFS disk. (Here's a tip, make an 800k MFS disk if you want to import lots of stuff from your other Mac.) There is another point which you are missing, however, and that is this: UNIX systems are suppposed to be half-baked! The whole idea behind a UNIX system is to provide employment for dweebs and twits, so that they can hack it into a semblance of something useful! If it came completely baked, then there wouldn't be too much that dweebs and twits could do with it, and they would all be out of a job! Think about it, would you like for Apple to appear so competent and professional in the production of their products that there would be no need to hire people to make them actually work? Conclusion: Half-baked products keep programmers employed, and they are likely to do so for a long time. If you don't like A/UX, then Apple has a solution for you. It's called "Apple HD SC Setup". -- ********************************************************************* *Earle R. Horton, H.B. 8000, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755 * *********************************************************************
benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) (04/14/88)
In article <7937@apple.Apple.Com>, jk@Apple.COM (John Kullmann) writes: > GEEZ! I am having fun yet or WHAT!!!! All this entertainment watching > a few UNIX dweebs and twits in a flame-fest like I've never seen and I > don't even have to pay for it!! John Gilmore gets the honors for the It's would nice to have a guy from Apple who would answer questions about distribution? why A/UX is so slow? what is the future of A/UX ? especially now that AT&T/Sun/Xerox are introducing the OPEN LOOK interface...and Sun has introduced the a 386 system...and Apollo, NeXT and other are on the way? distribution media issues? instead of casting stones at some ligit grievances that more than a few people are curious about. The above response invokes a rather negative view about Apple and its commitment to A/UX. ---------------------------- Naturally my Opinions are my own.
work@dragos.UUCP (Dragos Ruiu) (04/14/88)
In article <7937@apple.Apple.Com>, jk@Apple.COM (John Kullmann) writes: > GEEZ! I am having fun yet or WHAT!!!! All this entertainment watching > a few UNIX dweebs and twits in a flame-fest like I've never seen and I > don't even have to pay for it!! John Gilmore gets the honors for the > most flames in a batch, [...] > John Kullmann > Apple Computer Inc. For the record, John Gilmore's posting was informative and saved me a lot of time trying to track down A/UX. Apple has been less helpful than they usually are in this respect. I would venture that Apple's somewhat restrictive, highly evangelical approach will not sit as well in the Unix world; but only time will tell. -- Dragos Ruiu ruiu@dragos.UUCP ...alberta!dragos!ruiu "cat ansi.c | grep -v noalias >proper.c"
dlw@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (David Williams) (04/14/88)
in:comp.unix.aux/earleh@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU (Earle R. Horton) writes: > There is another point which you are missing, however, and that is >this: UNIX systems are suppposed to be half-baked! The whole idea >behind a UNIX system is to provide employment for dweebs and twits, so >that they can hack it into a semblance of something useful! If it came >completely baked, then there wouldn't be too much that dweebs and twits >could do with it, and they would all be out of a job! Think about it, >would you like for Apple to appear so competent and professional in the >production of their products that there would be no need to hire people >to make them actually work? Gee it looks like Earle read John Dvorak's column in the latest MacUser! -David "Still unsure of which half-baked Un*x system to buy" Williams
jk@Apple.COM (John Kullmann) (04/15/88)
I would like to apologize for a moment of weakness last Sunday night at 11:45pm, when after reading flame after flame I mistakenly posted my 'dweeb and twit' reflame. It was mostly meant to be humorous (even though I left off the :-) ), and it projected the wrong image to several people (who sent me some hate mail directly). Many of the postings to this group are discussing real problems that we are working hard to address. Understand that WE in engineering are working hard to create the best product we can, and we count on others in other areas to package it, ship it, deliver it, sell it, support it, etc. etc. I hope they are working at their job as hard as we are working at ours. I am not allowed to discuss product futures, but believe me that lots of people are listening to what is said about A/UX (on the net and elsewhere), and those comments will have an effect on future releases of the product. I might suggest however, that constructive criticism (or praise :-) ) will always get better attention than flames. Feel free to mail comments/flames directly to me about A/UX. I am keenly interested in making it a better product. Usual disclaimer: These are all my own opinions, and not my employers. They do not approve of anything I think or say.