gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (04/22/88)
jackie@Apple.COM (Hernan'Jackie' Macapanpan) wrote: >In my reply about X-Windows availability under A/UX, I had mentioned that it >would be available "in" the next release. X-windows under A/UX should be >available "at the time of" the next release of A/UX. arnold@emory.uucp (Arnold D. Robbins {EUCC}) writes: > What the heck does this mean though? I would read it as "X-Windows will be > available as a separate product you pay additional money to get". jackie@Apple.COM (Hernan'Jackie' Macapanpan) wrote: > I not sure what it means. I had to correct myself because I'm not sure how > X-Windows for A/UX will be available. In other words, it hasn't been decided > yet. I think it's funny how the "public domain" X window system usually ends up costing big bucks from the vendors who support it, while the "proprietary" NeWS system costs $100 for Suns, $225 for Macs, etc. HP charges $2100 for X windows! (You also have to buy "Arpa networking services" for $7500.) At least A/UX comes with free Berkeley networking, though you have to configure it in (it's there taking up disk space, but as we discovered, our A/UX application programs can't use it until we teach all our customers how to reconfigure their kernels). Let's hope that the next A/UX release includes both X windows for free (since when was a Unix release free! :-) and Berkeley networking -- both ready to turn on and use.
guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum) (04/22/88)
In article <4466@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >I think it's funny how the "public domain" X window system usually ends >up costing big bucks from the vendors who support it, while the >"proprietary" NeWS system costs $100 for Suns, $225 for Macs, etc. I would like to know what's included in "etc". X11 for my VaxStation2000 running Ultrix cost only the price of the MIT X tape; is NeWS available for my machine? Can I then run NeWS clients on a Harris "tahoe" processor (where I am running most X clients)? The big bucks you are mentioning probably refer to "support". X without support is as cheap as NeWS. How good is NeWS supported for non-Sun machines? -- Guido van Rossum, Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science (CWI), Amsterdam guido@piring.cwi.nl or mcvax!piring!guido or guido%piring.cwi.nl@uunet.uu.net
gregoire%stellablue@Sun.COM (Gregory Pearson) (04/22/88)
In article <4466@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >jackie@Apple.COM (Hernan'Jackie' Macapanpan) wrote: >>In my reply about X-Windows availability under A/UX, I had mentioned that it >>would be available "in" the next release. X-windows under A/UX should be >>available "at the time of" the next release of A/UX. > >At least A/UX comes with free Berkeley >networking, though you have to configure it in (it's there taking up >disk space, but as we discovered, our A/UX application programs can't >use it until we teach all our customers how to reconfigure their >kernels). > If A/UX can be praised (and should) for one thing, John, its the ease with which the "vanilla" kernel can be reconfigured for either Berkeley networking or NFS. I have not found an easier configuration program in the known world. >Let's hope that the next A/UX release includes both X windows for free >(since when was a Unix release free! :-) and Berkeley networking -- both >ready to turn on and use. Yes, both B-networking and NFS are bundled with A/UX - a good deal yes, and a good deal more!
mh@wlbr.EATON.COM (Mike Hoegeman) (04/24/88)
In article <4466@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: .... >I think it's funny how the "public domain" X window system usually ends >up costing big bucks from the vendors who support it, while the >"proprietary" NeWS system costs $100 for Suns, $225 for Macs, etc. HP >charges $2100 for X windows! (You also have to buy "Arpa networking >services" for $7500.) At least A/UX comes with free Berkeley ...... How true!! I can't really figure out how people like HP can charge so much for something like X-windows. If it cost them that much to port X such that they have to charge $2100 bucks then there is something wrong with them or with X.
mh@wlbr.EATON.COM (Mike Hoegeman) (04/24/88)
In article <285@piring.cwi.nl> guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum) writes: >In article <4466@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >>I think it's funny how the "public domain" X window system usually ends >>up costing big bucks from the vendors who support it, while the >>"proprietary" NeWS system costs $100 for Suns, $225 for Macs, etc. > >I would like to know what's included in "etc". X11 for my VaxStation2000 >running Ultrix cost only the price of the MIT X tape; is NeWS available >for my machine? Can I then run NeWS clients on a Harris "tahoe" >processor (where I am running most X clients)? The big bucks you are >mentioning probably refer to "support". X without support is as cheap >as NeWS. How good is NeWS supported for non-Sun machines? well.. I've seen NeWS running on a microvax using ultrix. it was a black and white display. I think sun themselves did that port ( i could be wrong here on this point ). NeWS runs on LOTS of other stuff as well. here are some that I've SEEN it it on. - silicon graphics - some flavor of raster technologies machine - B&W microvax under ultrix (don't know about color). - suns (obviously). but as a aside on this I've seen it on other third party graphics boards. We ourselves use NeWS here with parallax graphics boards on suns. parallax has the capability to bring up live video in NeWS windows (really spiffy). also, there are other machines that I've been told it runs on but have'nt actually seen it. - amiga - macII - whitechapel workstations - apollo's - bell technologies 386 box under sysV/streams anyway my point here is that NeWS runs on things besides suns and it does so NOW. The support we've had from parallax has been good and they keep up w/ the new releases in a prompt manner.
gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (04/24/88)
[We are getting far afield from A/UX here; followups to comp.windows.misc.] guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum) wrote: > X11 for my VaxStation2000 > running Ultrix cost only the price of the MIT X tape; is NeWS available > for my machine? I have seen VaxStation ifdef's in some of the NeWS sources, but don't know if anyone sells NeWS for Vaxen. Maybe Mt. Xinu? I haven't kept track of who-all sells NeWS for what machines and at what prices, but I just asked Sun for that info, and we'll see what they know. > Can I then run NeWS clients on a Harris "tahoe" > processor (where I am running most X clients)? You get full client source with NeWS, so you can run the clients anywhere that has a C compiler and TCP/IP. Tahoes should be no problem. > The big bucks you are mentioning probably refer to "support". The 1988 HP T&M catalog says (pg 647) "The X Window product includes libraries for compiling X applications (featuring graphics and XrLIB tools) under C, and the following executable programs: PAM, hpterm, uwm, xwm, xterm, xclock." That's all they say it includes; no sources, no support. For $2100. > X without support is as cheap as NeWS. I'd be glad to sell you NeWS binaries without support for $2100, Guido... > How good is NeWS supported for non-Sun machines? NeWS support for Suns doesn't really exist; it's released without support, until it gets into the mainline Unix release. MacNews is a fully supported product, and we will endeavor to fix bugs and problems as they are reported to us. Other vendors will have to speak for themselves. -- John Gilmore {sun,pacbell,uunet,pyramid,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@toad.com /* No comment */
benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) (04/27/88)
In article <285@piring.cwi.nl>, guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum) writes: > In article <4466@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: > >I think it's funny how the "public domain" X window system usually ends > >up costing big bucks from the vendors who support it, while the > >"proprietary" NeWS system costs $100 for Suns, $225 for Macs, etc. > > I would like to know what's included in "etc". X11 for my VaxStation2000 > running Ultrix cost only the price of the MIT X tape; which correct me if I am wrong is around $100-$150. How good is it...? All the workstation companies seem to take the MIT X tapes and "civilize" the implementation for their machines....examples : Apollo, Sun and surprise (!) I believe DEC (oh...right also IBM and HP) >is NeWS available for my machine? I believe Sun actually sells some sort of uVax version...don't know the details. >The big bucks you are mentioning probably refer to "support". X without >support is as cheap as NeWS. But on a growing number of machines NeWS is bundled with the machine (i.e. : No seperate price , like IBM's X version on the IBM RT-it ain't cheap) A number of vendors are merging the X11 and NeWS environments and providing the best of both worlds to their users (Silicon Graphics, SCO Xenix for PC, Sun). I believe the merged X11/NeWS environment is what Sun is suppose to deliver to AT&T. > How good is NeWS supported for non-Sun machines? Without going into great detail you should know that NeWS is now part of Unix from AT&T and as such it will be available for companies that license the next release of Unix. Further, Sun may have developed it, but it is now can be seen on a number of non-Sun machines. One such machine is the Silicon Graphics 4D series...others include Apple MacOS Mac , Apple Unix Mac, Parallax, WhiteChapel, Raster Technologies, Alliant...+