shaff@Sesame.Stanford.EDU (Mike Shaff) (05/22/89)
ciao, What follows below was snarfed from prep.ai.mit.edu (the GNU machine) the file was entitled APPLE. I am curious for the reactions of the "A/UX" community and Apple people (speaking either as individuals or company representatives). I personally feel that I am in a most unenviable position: philosophically I agree with RMS, however I feel that the person who gets zapped is the user (again). Comments anyone? (peace chance) mas --- You might have read about the new look-and-feel copyright lawsuit, Apple vs. Hewlett Packard and Microsoft. Apple claims the power to stop people from writing any program that works even vaguely like a Macintosh. If they and other look-and-feel plaintiffs triumph, they will use this new power over the public to put an end to free software that could substitute for commercial software. In the weeks after the suit was filed, USENET reverberated with condemnation for Apple. GNU supporters Richard Stallman, John Gilmore, and Paul Rubin decided to take action against Apple's no-longer-deserved reputation as a force for progress. Apple's reputation comes from having made better computers; but now, Apple is working to make all non-Apple computers worse. If this deprives the public of the future work of many companies, the harm done would be many times the good that any one company does. Our hope was that if the user community realizes how destructive Apple's present actions are, Apple would lose customers and have more trouble finding employees. Our method of action was to print 5000 buttons that say ``Keep Your Lawyers Off My Computer'' and hand them out at the West Coast Computer Faire. The center of the button shows the rainbow-apple logo with a Gigeresque mouth full of ferocious teeth. The picture was drawn by Etienne Suvasa, who also drew the cover for the GNU Emacs manual. We call the picture ``Apple's New Look and Feel''. We gave out nearly 4000 buttons at the show (saving the rest for afterwards). The result was a great success: the extent of anger at Apple was apparent to everyone at the show. Many of the invited speakers at the show wore our buttons, spoke about them, or even waved them from the podium. The press noticed this: at least one Macintosh user's magazine carried a photo of the button afterwards. Some of you may be considering using, buying, or recommending Macintoshes; you might even be writing programs for them or thinking about it. Please think twice and look for an alternative. Doing those things means more success for Apple, and this could encourage Apple to persist in its aggression. It also encourages other companies to try similar obstructionism. [It is because of this boycott that we don't include support for Macintosh Unix in GNU software.] You might think that your current project ``needs'' a Macintosh now. If you find yourself thinking this way, consider the far future. You probably plan to be alive a year or two from now, and working on some other project. You will want to get good computers for that, too. But an Apple monopoly could easily make the price of such computers at that time several times what it would otherwise be. Your decision to use some other kind of machine, or to defer your purchases now, might make sure that the machines your next project needs are affordable when you need them. Newspapers report that Macintosh clones will be available soon. If you must buy a Macintosh-like machine, buy a clone. Don't feed the lawyers! --
steveg@tove.umd.edu (Steve Green) (05/23/89)
Well, the it seems to me that Apple is playing "the" game with the lawsuit. It does not seem to me that Apple can, or expect to, win the lawsuit but that the lawsuit is a message to potential clone developers. I dont think that Apple should have the rights to the look and feel, but should have the rights to the Macintosh system. Competetors should be allowed to develop similiar systems that do not run the Mac OS. Lets keep the competition in the computer industry in order to drive the development of innovative products. I dont belive that Apple is trying to grab a monopoly on the look and feel in order to hold computer users as hostages but that Apple is trying to protect its investment on the mac and continue in the R&D effort. Clones have gotten to be such a problem in the MS-DOS market, that it looks as if this is the major cause for the drop in sales of IBM's. This alone looks as if it will spell the eventual doom for the IBM PC. :-) How low will IBM prices gow before they give it up and go strictly to the mini and up market. I think that Apple is aware of this and does not want history to repeat itself. Back to the issue.... I believe that GNU's position is foolish because nothing has happened yet. I feel that if Apple turns into the monarchy that the GNU people describe, that THEN is the time for action. In the mean time, let Apple continue to produce the best personal computer in computer history. The Macs' success, it seems, is largely based on Apples' innovation. Putting a choke on Apple will only hurt the end user. Please note that these are my personal opinions and observations. I fully welcome intelligent replies and corrections to my information. Also, please do not quote me out of context. ..!uunet!tove.umd.edu!steveg steveg@tove.umd.edu
rmtodd@uokmax.UUCP (Richard Michael Todd) (05/24/89)
In article <9365@polya.Stanford.EDU> shaff@Sesame.Stanford.EDU (Mike Shaff) writes: >ciao, > >What follows below was snarfed from prep.ai.mit.edu (the GNU machine) the file >was entitled APPLE. I am curious for the reactions of the "A/UX" community >and Apple people (speaking either as individuals or company representatives). >I personally feel that I am in a most unenviable position: philosophically I >agree with RMS, however I feel that the person who gets zapped is the user >(again). Comments anyone? This has been brought up before several times on various newsgroups. Personally, I can see why RMS is so upset, since he is in the business of cloning AT&T's "look and feel". However, since I've got a Mac, I'm the one who gets shafted, not Apple. And there really aren't any alternatives out there for the serious Unix user. None of the 386 systems are suitable because they don't have Berkeley job control, Berkeley networking, or Berkeley *anything*. Sun-3 is a nice machine and has a nice Unix port, but they want more for their color monitor than I paid for my entire system. I'm not rich enough to afford ideological purity in this battle. And, of course, the fact that RMS doesn't support ports of GNU products to A/UX doesn't mean that ports can't be done, and supported over this network. Anybody wanting a version of GNU Tar that works on A/UX, let me know. Reportedly Paul Traina's working on a port of GCC to A/UX. >Newspapers report that Macintosh clones will be available soon. If >you must buy a Macintosh-like machine, buy a clone. Don't feed the >lawyers! I wonder what RMS thinks of the recently announced Mac clone, with the EEPROMS that automatically dump themselves if anyone tries to copy the ROMS in any way. *I* think it's the silliest idea in copy protection in the entire decade. Obviously these people have been watching too many Mission:Impossible reruns ("this machine will self-destruct in 5 seconds"). I can just imagine the fun a mischief-inclined student could have with a lab full of these things and a 3-line C program to read the ROMS out sequentially. Sheesh. Where is Stupid People's Court when you need it... -- Richard Todd Fido:1:147/1 USSnail:820 Annie Court,Norman OK 73069 Try one of these: rmtodd@chinet.chi.il.us, rmtodd@killer.dallas.tx.us, rmtodd@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu or ...!sun!texsun!uokmax!rmtodd. "Never re-invent the wheel unnecessarily; yours may have corners."-henry@utzoo
karish@forel.stanford.edu (Chuck Karish) (05/25/89)
In article <3253@uokmax.UUCP> rmtodd@uokmax.UUCP (Richard Michael Todd) wrote: >In article <9365@polya.Stanford.EDU> shaff@Sesame.Stanford.EDU (Mike Shaff) writes: [ ramblings about conflict between Richard Stallman and Apple ] >However, since I've got a Mac, I'm the one >who gets shafted, not Apple. And there really aren't any alternatives out >there for the serious Unix user. None of the 386 systems are suitable because >they don't have Berkeley job control, Berkeley networking, or Berkeley >*anything*. If you buy an IBM PS/2 model 70 or 80 with AIX, you get the Berkeley features listed above, in a 386 system. Chuck Karish {decwrl,hpda}!mindcrf!karish (415) 493-7277 karish@forel.stanford.edu
cswarren@gershwin.berkeley.edu (Warren Gish;269A LSA;x3-9219) (05/25/89)
In article <2506@Portia.Stanford.EDU> karish@forel.stanford.edu (Chuck Karish) writes: <In article <3253@uokmax.UUCP> rmtodd@uokmax.UUCP (Richard Michael Todd) wrote: <<In article <9365@polya.Stanford.EDU> shaff@Sesame.Stanford.EDU (Mike Shaff) writes: < <[ ramblings about conflict between Richard Stallman and Apple ] < <<However, since I've got a Mac, I'm the one <<who gets shafted, not Apple. And there really aren't any alternatives out <<there for the serious Unix user. None of the 386 systems are suitable because <<they don't have Berkeley job control, Berkeley networking, or Berkeley <<*anything*. < < If you buy an IBM PS/2 model 70 or 80 with AIX, you get the < Berkeley features listed above, in a 386 system. Have you ever had the privilege of networking BSD UNIX-based systems (e.g., Sun) with an AIX-based IBM RT to do printer sharing? It ain't pretty. AIX (at least on the RT) doesn't have the lpd daemon. Not that lpd is great, but the two UNIXes' print systems don't talk to each other on a friendly basis. It's bad enough that my clients ftp their documents to the Sun and _then_ print. < Chuck Karish {decwrl,hpda}!mindcrf!karish < (415) 493-7277 karish@forel.stanford.edu Warren Gish University of California Berkeley, CA 94720 (415) 643-9219 cswarren@violet.berkeley.edu