peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) (09/15/89)
I've been contemplating selling my old home Mail/News machine (an ATT Unix-PC) and running AU/X on my Mac IIcx instead. I figure I can get enough from selling the Unix-PC to buy an extra 80MEG disk for the Mac where AU/X can live. I have a few questions - Are people successfully running usenet (UUCP & News) on AU/X? Is there enough disk for this? (I've only got a 40 Meg disk on the Unix-PC and this isn't even full all the time). I wouldn't mind removing parts of the distribution (like GNU Emacs, etc). Are there any other gotcha's when running AU/X as a part-time usenet machine (I do plan on using the Mac/OS during the day...)? -- michael
steve@cpdaux.UUCP (Steve Lemke) (09/15/89)
In article <10555@claris.com> peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) writes: }I've been contemplating selling my old home Mail/News machine (an ATT Unix-PC) }and running AU/X on my Mac IIcx instead. }Are people successfully running usenet (UUCP & News) on AU/X? Hmm. Well, last year (my senior year at U.C. Santa Barbara), I ran A/UX part time on my Mac II, while my roommate ran UNIX on his Unix PC (obviously full-time). His machine was (and still is) on the net, and he rarely had problems bringing up "standard" software (Bnews/elm/rn/nn/Cnews/etc). Because A/UX is based on the same SVR2 as the Unix-PC, I was able to bring up much of the same software with little or no mods in A/UX. Although the Unix PC only has a 68010, it did quite well supporting him at the console, me at 19,200 baud direct link, and another roommate on a 9600 terminal (simultaneously). The Mac was not originally designed to do this sort of stuff, and I wonder if (even with the theoretically better perfor- mance) the A/UX machine would be much faster - we never did try this, due to the different locations of the machines and the cabling complexities of our apartment. Now that we are no longer roommates, we are both running unix and are both "on the net" (though I haven't registered as a uucp or .com site (yet)). }I figure I can get enough from selling the Unix-PC to buy an extra 80MEG disk }for the Mac where AU/X can live. I have a few questions - } }Is there enough disk for this? (I've only got a 40 Meg disk on the Unix-PC }and this isn't even full all the time). I wouldn't mind removing parts }of the distribution (like GNU Emacs, etc). Ugg. Does that mean you're only going to have 80mb? I'm the only one using my machine (currently), but I find 80 to be a bit snug. I receive only a partial news feed, due to the fact that it takes so long to transfer news, even at 2400 baud (9600 baud is coming soon!), as well as the unpacking time and the space required to store it all. I also run expire as soon as I've read everything on my system. I'm currently running with about 7mb free. From what I understand, a full feed is five to seven megabytes per day, so if you run a one-week expire, that's 35-50mb of news always in your spool directory. You don't really get 80mb of storage with A/UX on the Apple 80mb drive. You really get more like 54mb (there is a 2mb Mac boot partition, two 3mb autorecovery partitions, and 14mb of swap space). It really is snug. I am thinking of setting up my A/UX at work as a news/mail system for people accesible from the Macs at our desks over Ethernet, but I question two things: performance when more than one person is using it, and disk space. We'll probably have dual 80mb drives, hopefully with a really fast one mounted as /usr/spool (for news/mail). (Comments from people presently running a system in such a situation would be greatly appreciated!) }Are there any other gotcha's when running AU/X as a part-time usenet machine }(I do plan on using the Mac/OS during the day...)? You mean other than the pain of switching back and forth? Yes, some programs run under A/UX, but the only way I find A/UX tolerable (and actually somewhat useful even) is with TERM running (allowing multiple windows to be open, rather than a single console window). Yes, you COULD run X, but that takes up even more of your precious disk space. Thus, if term is running, then that is the "one" toolbox program allowed, and to run a Mac OS program, you must LEAVE term, and launch the Mac OS program, then return to term. It's a pain. Besides, I don't want to move everything over to A/UX from Mac OS. So, I switch back and forth. In fact, currently, I run mostly Mac OS, and I boot A/UX in the evening simply to get mail/news, read and reply, and then shut the thing off. That's why I want to set it up full-time at work. A/UX works part time, but prefers full-time! -- ----- Steve Lemke ------------------- "MS-DOS (OS/2, etc.) - just say no!" ----- Internet: cpdaux!steve@apple.com GEnie: LEMKE ----- Or try: apple!cpdaux!steve CompuServe: 73627,570 ----- Quote: "What'd I go to college for?" "You had fun, didn't you?"
paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell) (09/15/89)
In article <10555@claris.com> peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) writes: >I figure I can get enough from selling the Unix-PC to buy an extra 80MEG disk >for the Mac where AU/X can live. I have a few questions - >Are people successfully running usenet (UUCP & News) on AU/X? Yes, taniwha (the A/UX system I'm running on) runs mail and news, I also feed another A/UX system. >Is there enough disk for this? (I've only got a 40 Meg disk on the Unix-PC >and this isn't even full all the time). I wouldn't mind removing parts >of the distribution (like GNU Emacs, etc). I run an 80Mb system disk and a 60Mb spool disk, I keep about 4 days of news around - it seems to take about 3000 blocks 15Mb - look at the sizes of the spool directories on your current system. You can easily remove sources and/or the manual pages. You can also build a system without the autorecovery partitions (only recomended if you have another form of backup and think you know what you are doing). >Are there any other gotcha's when running AU/X as a part-time usenet machine >(I do plan on using the Mac/OS during the day...)? You should get your news feeder to not spool news to you during the day (otherwise their spool directories will runneth over). Paul Campbell -- Paul Campbell UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul AppleLink: D3213 "Free Market": n. (colloq.) a primitive fertility goddess worshipped by an obscure cult in the late 20th C. It's chief priest 'Dow Jones' was eventually lynched by an enraged populace during an economic downturn (early 21st C).
rmtodd@servalan.uucp (Richard Todd) (09/16/89)
In article <514@cpdaux.UUCP> cpdaux!steve@apple.com (Steve Lemke) writes: >In article <10555@claris.com> peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) writes: >}I've been contemplating selling my old home Mail/News machine (an ATT Unix-PC) >}and running AU/X on my Mac IIcx instead. > >}Are people successfully running usenet (UUCP & News) on AU/X? Well, since I'm posting this from my IIx running C News, I think we can all take the answer to that question to be "yes". :-) >Because A/UX is based on the same SVR2 as the Unix-PC, I was able to >bring up much of the same software with little or no mods in A/UX. Ditto. The only problem I had with bringing up C News is that the Spencer/Collyer fast stdio library doesn't work with A/UX (or, apparently, any SVR2). Using the standard stdio library works fine. Other than that all you have to do is answer all the questions the "build" program asks you. >Although the Unix PC only has a 68010, it did quite well supporting him at >the console, me at 19,200 baud direct link, and another roommate on a 9600 >terminal (simultaneously). The Mac was not originally designed to do this >sort of stuff, and I wonder if (even with the theoretically better perfor- >mance) the A/UX machine would be much faster - we never did try this, due >to the different locations of the machines and the cabling complexities of >our apartment. Hmm.. I should think the Mac would be somewhat faster, due to having a 680[23]0 running at 16MHz instead of a 68010 at 10MHz. I wasn't aware that the Unix PC had any special features that made it particularly suited for Unix per se; as I recall, the Unix PC drives weren't overwhelmingly fast ,not as good as the 28ms Quantum 80M drives Apple ships Unix on. Alas, since I'm the only person who uses this machine, I can't really do the kind of experiment you're talking about. I have noted some serious performance degradation when doing file transfers on both serial ports (2400bps on one, 9600bps on the other), but file transfer bashes the serial driver more than interactive use. >}I figure I can get enough from selling the Unix-PC to buy an extra 80MEG disk >}for the Mac where AU/X can live. I have a few questions - >} >}Is there enough disk for this? (I've only got a 40 Meg disk on the Unix-PC >}and this isn't even full all the time). I wouldn't mind removing parts >}of the distribution (like GNU Emacs, etc). If you're just now getting Unix, don't worry about removing GNU Emacs-- they've already done it for you in v1.1. Sigh. >Ugg. Does that mean you're only going to have 80mb? I'm the only one using >my machine (currently), but I find 80 to be a bit snug. I receive only a >partial news feed, due to the fact that it takes so long to transfer news, >even at 2400 baud (9600 baud is coming soon!), as well as the unpacking time Yes, anyone who tries to run a full feed on the 80M disk is out of his mind. I run a partial feed (around 30 newsgroups), and run roughly 6-7 day expire (adjusted based on how much news is flowing), and /usr/spool/news takes up ~3-4M, the binaries and other control files about another 1.5M. I suggest you get yourself a copy of the monthly traffic reports by Brian Reid, showing how much traffic is in each newsgroup, and decide how much disk space your favorite collection of groups will need. Oh, how much have I got free? About 3 Meg, but I have a *lot* of other stuff on my system besides news (like GNU Emacs, GCC, various pieces of MacOS software, etc.) Besides, if you temporarily need space for something big, you can always cut back on the expiration time of your news articles. >You don't really get 80mb of storage with A/UX on the Apple 80mb drive. >You really get more like 54mb (there is a 2mb Mac boot partition, two 3mb >autorecovery partitions, and 14mb of swap space). It really is snug. Yeah, but you can fiddle with the standard partition layout. You can nuke one or both of the autorecovery partitions and add the space to your root partition. Also, you can cut down the size of the swap partition (I'm running 10 Meg). This helps the space situation somewhat. >So, I switch back and forth. In fact, currently, I run mostly Mac OS, and I >boot A/UX in the evening simply to get mail/news, read and reply, and then >shut the thing off. That's why I want to set it up full-time at work. Funny, I work almost the reverse. I run A/UX most of the time, and boot MacOS only to run terminal-emulation programs to dial out to BBSes and download files. (If anyone's gotten Pcomm or some other Unix-based terminal emulation program to work on A/UX, I wanna hear about it!) >A/UX works part time, but prefers full-time! Actually, as long as your machine is up enough to download the queued news batches, and is up at the time you've scheduled "expire" for in crontab, that's all that matters. Nothing will break if you switch back and forth between A/UX and MacOS. (It probably is a good idea to make sure you're not shutting the machine down while it's in the middle of unbatching incoming news or doing an expire, though.) -- Richard Todd rmtodd@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu rmtodd@chinet.chi.il.us rmtodd@servalan.uucp
steve@cpdaux.UUCP (Steve Lemke) (09/19/89)
In article <1989Sep16.042214.632@servalan.uucp> rmtodd@servalan.UUCP (Richard Todd) writes: } Funny, I work almost the reverse. I run A/UX most of the time, and boot }MacOS only to run terminal-emulation programs to dial out to BBSes and }download files. (If anyone's gotten Pcomm or some other Unix-based }terminal emulation program to work on A/UX, I wanna hear about it!) For calling BBSes and downloading, can't you just use Kermit? In fact, for BBSes where you don't need to download you can just use cu... If you're running term, you can just open another window for communications, and still be doing other stuff in other windows. I sometimes do this if I need to call somewhere while running A/UX. However, I haven't tried Navigator (for Compu$erve) under A/UX, and I'm sure Prodigy doesn't work under A/UX, so I do have to go back to MacOS for that stuff. Usually, I boot MacOS first and run the MacOS stuff, after which I boot A/UX and let the news stuff happen. -- ----- Steve Lemke ------------------- "MS-DOS (OS/2, etc.) - just say no!" ----- Internet: cpdaux!steve@apple.com GEnie: LEMKE ----- Or try: apple!cpdaux!steve CompuServe: 73627,570 ----- Quote: "What'd I go to college for?" "You had fun, didn't you?"