malik@ut-emx.UUCP (Nadeem Malik) (12/31/89)
Hi,
I am thinking of buying the IIci and AUX and would appreciate it if someone
in the netland can answer some of my questions below.
1. First how do I get AUX? The computer store at my university does not sell
it. Similar queries with a couple of Apple dealers in town resulted in blank
stares.
2. What is the typical price for AUX?
3. Is it possible to get academic discount on it?
4. Since free software foundation refuses to support macs, is someone
else providing the ports of their programs for the mac, especially of
the gawk? I have noticed that someone has a gcc source for mac available at
some archive. How difficult has it been to port such programs. I think the
most difficult will be gnuemacs if all the functionality of mac windows, etc
has to be provided. Other programs, such as gawk, g++, bash, etc should
be trivial. Is this correct?
5. How robust is the AUX compared to SunOs and how does the Macwindows
support in AUX compared to sunview?
6. Is it reasonably fast in terms of response time as compared to a 11/780
with a few users? Are there any benchmark results available for AUX on the
ci/cx versus SunOs on SparcStation-1 or some other Unix implemenattion? If
anyone has used both the Sun386i and mac/AUX, do you think AUX is faster
than the painfully slow Sun386i or not?
7. Is AUX based on Unix V or the bsd version?
Thanks, in advance.
--
Nadeem Malik.
SNAIL: ENS 312, Electrical and Computer Engin, U.T., Austin, Tx 78712
EMAIL: <ARPA/CS/NSFnet> malik@emx.utexas.edu
<UUCP> {uunet,harvard}!cs.utexas.edu!emx!malik
VOICE: (512) 471-3903jason@cs.utexas.edu (Jason Levitt) (12/31/89)
In article <22885@ut-emx.UUCP> malik@emx.utexas.edu (Nadeem Malik) writes: > >1. First how do I get AUX? The computer store at my university does not sell >it. Similar queries with a couple of Apple dealers in town resulted in blank >stares. > Computer Solutions 327-8395 sells it. Talk to Craig Honeycutt. I am not affiliated with Computer Solutions, but I bought Mac hardware from them and Craig was willing to give me a good deal. The University gives a steep discount on the CPU, but all other hardware and software is cheaper elsewhere. >2. What is the typical price for AUX? > Apple list price: $895 for A/UX 1.1.1 on floppy $695 for " " on tape $649 for manuals $329 for X-windows You can also buy A/UX pre-formatted on an Apple 80 meg hd, either internal [with CPU] or external. You need an Apple SC40 tape drive for the tape version. You need AUX 1.1.1 for the IIci and SE/30, 1.1 for all other Mac II's. The two versions are functionally identical. >3. Is it possible to get academic discount on it? > Call Apple at 338-2115. I don't know. >4. Since free software foundation refuses to support macs, is someone >else providing the ports of their programs for the mac, especially of >the gawk? I have noticed that someone has a gcc source for mac available at >some archive. How difficult has it been to port such programs. I think the >most difficult will be gnuemacs if all the functionality of mac windows, etc >has to be provided. Other programs, such as gawk, g++, bash, etc should >be trivial. Is this correct? > Available via anonymous ftp from apple.com. >5. How robust is the AUX compared to SunOs and how does the Macwindows >support in AUX compared to sunview? > I don't know. I haven't done any programming with it. However, some of the A/UX applications, such as hfx [MacOS <-> AUX file transfer] make good use of the Macwindows interface. >6. Is it reasonably fast in terms of response time as compared to a 11/780 >with a few users? Are there any benchmark results available for AUX on the >ci/cx versus SunOs on SparcStation-1 or some other Unix implemenattion? If >anyone has used both the Sun386i and mac/AUX, do you think AUX is faster >than the painfully slow Sun386i or not? > If someone has this information, *I'd* be interested too. >7. Is AUX based on Unix V or the bsd version? > Appears to be System V Release 2 kernel with BSD 4.3 networking and extensions. I'd like to know what kind of filesystem and memory management is being used. ---Jason ----- Jason Levitt P.O. Box 49860 Austin, Texas 78765 (512) 459-0055 Internet: jason@cs.utexas.edu | "The most effective debugging tool is UUCP : cs.utexas.edu!hackbox!jason | still careful thought, coupled with BIX : jlevitt | judiciously placed print statements." | -Brian Kernighan [1978]
rmtodd@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Richard Michael Todd) (12/31/89)
In article <1053@gort.cs.utexas.edu> jason@cs.utexas.edu (Jason Levitt) writes: >>3. Is it possible to get academic discount on it? > Call Apple at 338-2115. I don't know. Since I bought mine at academic discount rates, I'd say the answer was *yes* :-). :-). Ask your local university Apple representative to let you look at their price list. I had no trouble ordering mine thru the Univ. of Oklahoma's Computer Store; I'd be surprised if UTexas had any problems doing it. >>4. Since free software foundation refuses to support macs, is someone >>else providing the ports of their programs for the mac, especially of >>the gawk? I have noticed that someone has a gcc source for mac available at >>some archive. How difficult has it been to port such programs. I think the >>most difficult will be gnuemacs if all the functionality of mac windows, etc >>has to be provided. Other programs, such as gawk, g++, bash, etc should >>be trivial. Is this correct? > Available via anonymous ftp from apple.com. To be exact, gcc and GNU Emacs ports to A/UX are available on apple.com. Most everything else that I've looked at is trivial to port, except for GDB. GDB has all sorts of nasty machine dependencies, and will be non- trivial to port. I'd love to hear from someone who has ported it to A/UX. >>5. How robust is the AUX compared to SunOs and how does the Macwindows >>support in AUX compared to sunview? I've found very few bugs in A/UX. The C compiler shares the common SysV braindamage of having entirely too small table sizes; this will bite you if you compile really large stuff. (The X11r3 distribution has their own replacement cpp for just this reason--the Apple cpp cannot handle the X11 source.) Reportedly there is a bug in the NFS code that under the right (rather rare) conditions can cause the system to hang; since I don't use NFS, I've never seen it myself. As for how robust it is compared to SunOS, I can't say; since some people have complained of SunOS 4.0 being a beta-test release in disguise, A/UX might well be more robust than SunOS... As for windowing, the A/UX stock windowing scheme is really nothing but an emulation of the MacOS graphics and windowing system traps. You can write programs under A/UX much as you can under MPW (or so I'm told--I'm not very familiar with MacOS system calls), and many MacOS programs can be run under A/UX. A/UX comes with a program called "term" which puts up multiple windows, each with a shell on it. You can't really run multiple "tool programs" each of which has its own window on the screen as you can with SunWindows. If that's important to you, you'll have to get X Window and run it on your A/UX system. Note that if you don't want to shell out the bucks to Apple for X Window, and you don't mind a monochrome-only server, and you've got plenty of disk space, you can take the stock X11R3 source (available from your favorite neighborhood FTP site) and compile it yourself. Note that the server Apple sells has color support; the one on the X11R3 tape doesn't. Rumour has it that the X11R4 release will include color support for the Mac, and it's reportedly still due out "this yearish". >>6. Is it reasonably fast in terms of response time as compared to a 11/780 >>with a few users? Are there any benchmark results available for AUX on the >>ci/cx versus SunOs on SparcStation-1 or some other Unix implemenattion? If >>anyone has used both the Sun386i and mac/AUX, do you think AUX is faster >>than the painfully slow Sun386i or not? > If someone has this information, *I'd* be interested too. I did some benchmark testing (using the MUSBUS suite) on A/UX 1.0 (some time ago, obviously). As I recall, my Mac IIx was pretty much comparable to a Sun-3 on everything except file I/O; on file I/O the Mac loses considerably because of the System V filesystem. I've never seen a SparcStation or a Sun386i, so I can't comment on how it compares to those. Your Mac IIci should be considerably faster than the Mac IIx I used. Also reportedly disk performance was improved somewhat in A/UX 1.1; I suppose I should rerun those benchmarks... >>7. Is AUX based on Unix V or the bsd version? > Appears to be System V Release 2 kernel with BSD 4.3 networking and >extensions. I'd like to know what kind of filesystem and memory management >is being used. System V filesystem (grr...) and apparently System V memory management. At least, it allows the dynamic adding and removal of swap partitions that SysV allows, so I assume that the memory management is SysV. -- Richard Todd rmtodd@chinet.chi.il.us or rmtodd@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu "MSDOS is a Neanderthal operating system" - Henry Spencer
jason@cs.utexas.edu (Jason Levitt) (12/31/89)
In article <1989Dec30.230404.30326@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> rmtodd@uokmax.UUCP (Richard Michael Todd) writes: >>3. Is it possible to get academic discount on it? >Since I bought mine at academic discount rates, I'd say the answer was >*yes* :-). :-). Ask your local university Apple representative to let you >look at their price list. I had no trouble ordering mine thru the Univ. of >Oklahoma's Computer Store; I'd be surprised if UTexas had any problems >doing it. > I'm fairly certain that the UTexas computer store does not sell A/UX. I think this is because they do not have the requisite support personnel to satisfy Apple Inc.. Anyway, it is not on their price list. The local Apple University rep. may be able to help. Call Apple. >You can >write programs under A/UX much as you can under MPW (or so I'm told--I'm >not very familiar with MacOS system calls), and many MacOS programs can >be run under A/UX. > They run under A/UX but without sound and without direct access to the serial ports and some other bells and whistles. Only about 80% of the Mac toolbox is available under A/UX. :-( ---Jason ----- Jason Levitt P.O. Box 49860 Austin, Texas 78765 (512) 459-0055 Internet : jason@cs.utexas.edu | "Toroidal carbohydrate modules? UUCP : ...cs.utexas.edu!hackbox!jason | Make mine glazed!" BIX : jlevitt | -- Zippy
malik@ut-emx.UUCP (Nadeem Malik) (01/01/90)
In article <1055@gort.cs.utexas.edu> jason@cs.utexas.edu (Jason Levitt) writes: > I'm fairly certain that the UTexas computer store does not sell A/UX. >I think this is because they do not have the requisite support personnel >to satisfy Apple Inc.. Anyway, it is not on their price list. >The local Apple University rep. may be able to help. Call Apple. I learned this the hard way. They in fact were responsible for sending me off on a wild goose chase first to our computation center, as they thought its them who would sell it. After unsuccessfuly trying three people I learned that they have no business to sell such stuff. Back to our Micro Center-- this time they gave me a California number for Apple, where after holding on the line for 20 min (in the morning at the prime phone rates), I was told Apple does not sell AUX to non-dealers. When back to our micro center, the third time a more knowledgeable person finally tells me that yes none of the people they had asked me to contact can sell AUX to me. The response from some local Apple dealers was also similarly disappointing As you can imagine I had by that time mostly abandoned the idea of getting AUX. But thanks to everyone on the net I have now gotten some very useful info. > >>You can >>write programs under A/UX much as you can under MPW (or so I'm told--I'm >>not very familiar with MacOS system calls), and many MacOS programs can >>be run under A/UX. >> > They run under A/UX but without sound and without direct access to the serial >ports and some other bells and whistles. Only about 80% of the Mac >toolbox is available under A/UX. :-( Does anyone know if Microsoft word 4.0, Execl, and MacDraw work under AUX. Since these are the only MacOs programs that I use, if they do work then I wont even ever have to boot the MacOs. However, you have mentioned that there is a problem in accessing the serial ports. Does it mean that it will not be possible to print from Word to a laserwriter, even if it works otherwise under AUX? -- Nadeem Malik. SNAIL: ENS 312, Electrical and Computer Engin, U.T., Austin, Tx 78712 EMAIL: <ARPA/CS/NSFnet> malik@emx.utexas.edu <UUCP> {uunet,harvard}!cs.utexas.edu!emx!malik VOICE: (512) 471-3903
jason@cs.utexas.edu (Jason Levitt) (01/01/90)
In article <22924@ut-emx.UUCP> malik@emx.UUCP (Nadeem Malik) writes: >In article <1055@gort.cs.utexas.edu> jason@cs.utexas.edu (Jason Levitt) writes: >> They run under A/UX but without sound and without direct access to the serial >>ports and some other bells and whistles. Only about 80% of the Mac >>toolbox is available under A/UX. :-( > >Does anyone know if Microsoft word 4.0, Execl, and MacDraw >work under AUX. Since these are the only MacOs programs that I use, if >they do work then I wont even ever have to boot the MacOs. However, you have >mentioned that there is a problem in accessing the serial ports. Does it mean >that it will not be possible to print from Word to a laserwriter, even if it >works otherwise under AUX? > You cannot print using the serial ports when running a Mac application under A/UX. Macintosh terminal programs are useless. Word processing programs cannot print using the serial ports. I think it is possible to print via appletalk, though, if you have an appletalk [now called "localtalk"] network. Not sure. Anybody know if Excel works? ---J ----- Jason Levitt P.O. Box 49860 Austin, Texas 78765 (512) 459-0055 Internet: jason@cs.utexas.edu | "Happy decade. Anybody for UUCP : cs.utexas.edu!hackbox!jason | 80's nostalgia?" BIX : jlevitt | ---Jason
jk@Apple.COM (John Kullmann) (01/01/90)
In article <1056@gort.cs.utexas.edu> jason@cs.utexas.edu (Jason Levitt) writes: > You cannot print using the serial ports when running a Mac application >under A/UX. Macintosh terminal programs are useless. Word processing >programs cannot print using the serial ports. I think it is possible to >print via appletalk, though, if you have an appletalk [now called >"localtalk"] network. Not sure. Anybody know if Excel works? > This is wrong. With the 'AppleTalk 2.0 for A/UX package' now available (also bundled in with 1.1.1) Mac Apps can print to a shared, networked (local/ethertalk) laserwriter. There may be some confusion here, since localtalk uses the serial port, but in any case you can now print via a direct serial connect printer or via localtalk to a shared laserwriter. In fact, since A/UX 1.1 you could print to a localtalk laserwriter from Mac Apps, it just used to require a 3rd party serial card. Now it will work directly off the serial ports out the back of the machine.