[comp.unix.aux] GNU - FSF against A/UX !!

pke@public.BTR.COM (Peter Espen pke@btr.com) (09/03/90)

 The following is a copy of an article posted to 
comp.emacs:

********************************************************

Article 874 of 887, Thu 17:28.
Subject: GNU under A/UX 2.0 ???
From: rms@AI.MIT.EDU (Richard Stallman)
Path: btr!decwrl!ucbvax!AI.MIT.EDU!rms
Newsgroups: comp.emacs
Date: 31 Aug 90 00:28:34 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU

The FSF is not going to support any software on AUX because of the
danger posed to future free software development by Apple's lawsuit.

For more information about the lawsuit and the harm it can do,
ask league@prep.ai.mit.edu for the position paper, "Against User
Interface Copyright".

To those of you who might find out about any ports to AUX: I hope you
will not recommend them to anyone else.  Third-party software plays an
important role in making a system successful.  To encourage use by
others of any software for an Apple system is to contribute directly
to Apple's sales activities.

*********************************************************

  Apple is paying a price for it's lawsuit!  Any comments??

Peter Espen
pke@btr.com

ron@afsg.apple.com (Ron Flax) (09/03/90)

In article <356@public.BTR.COM> pke@public.BTR.COM (Peter Espen pke@btr.com) writes:
>Subject: GNU under A/UX 2.0 ???
>From: rms@AI.MIT.EDU (Richard Stallman)
>
>The FSF is not going to support any software on AUX because of the
>danger posed to future free software development by Apple's lawsuit.
>
>  Apple is paying a price for it's lawsuit!  Any comments??
>

Not really.. most of the necessary GNU software has been successfully
ported to A/UX (emacs, gcc, g++, gdb) and is available for anonymous
ftp on the internet.  You just can't get it from FSF.. but it's still
available and in just as good shape as that which one might get from
FSF directly.

>Peter Espen
>pke@btr.com

Ron Flax
ron@afsg.apple.com

richf@adiron.UUCP (Rick Fanta) (09/04/90)

ron@afsg.apple.com (Ron Flax) writes:

>In article <356@public.BTR.COM> pke@public.BTR.COM (Peter Espen pke@btr.com) writes:
>>Subject: GNU under A/UX 2.0 ???
>>From: rms@AI.MIT.EDU (Richard Stallman)
>>
>>The FSF is not going to support any software on AUX because of the
>>danger posed to future free software development by Apple's lawsuit.
>>
>>  Apple is paying a price for it's lawsuit!  Any comments??
>>

>Not really.. most of the necessary GNU software has been successfully
>ported to A/UX (emacs, gcc, g++, gdb) and is available for anonymous
>ftp on the internet.  You just can't get it from FSF.. but it's still
>available and in just as good shape as that which one might get from
>FSF directly.

>>Peter Espen
>>pke@btr.com

>Ron Flax
>ron@afsg.apple.com


Slimeball companies stop at nothing.  How can you (with a clear conscience)
port GNU software?  If Apple is going to continue with "Sadaam Hussein-like"
lawsuits (I stole it fair and square, therefore it's mine) it has no business
with any FSF product!

May the source be with you!

Death to slimeball software hoarders and their legions of lawyers!

After the revolution, things will be different!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Fanta
	

kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (09/06/90)

In article <456@adiron.UUCP>, richf@adiron.UUCP (Rick Fanta) writes:
> Slimeball companies stop at nothing.  How can you (with a clear conscience)
> port GNU software?  If Apple is going to continue with "Sadaam Hussein-like"
> lawsuits (I stole it fair and square, therefore it's mine) it has no business
> with any FSF product!
> 
> May the source be with you!
> 
> Death to slimeball software hoarders and their legions of lawyers!
> 
> After the revolution, things will be different!
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rick Fanta

One would also ask why slimeball companies like FSF, which I have finally
figured out means "free the software from everyone but the FSF".  Do any
of you realize that there is a CD-ROM being "SOLD" for a consiberable sum
of money?  Does this sound like free software to you?  Also, why is it ok
for FSF to "make" money off of other peoples efforts, but it isn't ok for
other companies to make money off of their own efforts?  Doesn't this sound
just a bit hypocritical?  Has anyone ever given thought to the fact that
FSF is making money off of other peoples efforts in adding features, fixing
bugs, etc. in GNU software?  

Can someone please explain to me why FSF should make money off of something
that I added to some GNU software and gave back to the masses for free? 
Where is my cut?
--
Kurt Baumann
703.709.9890
703.709.9896 FAX

jk@Apple.COM (John Kullmann) (09/06/90)

In article <456@adiron.UUCP> richf@adiron.UUCP (Rick Fanta) writes:
>Slimeball companies stop at nothing.  How can you (with a clear conscience)
>port GNU software?  If Apple is going to continue with "Sadaam Hussein-like"
>lawsuits (I stole it fair and square, therefore it's mine) it has no business
>with any FSF product!
>
>May the source be with you!
>
>Death to slimeball software hoarders and their legions of lawyers!
>
>After the revolution, things will be different!


Rick- Since you FSF'ers flamed me for posting in the gnu group I feel
compelled to do the same. Please keep your pseudo-political-techno-babble
out of this actually useful newsgroup. We don't really care whether you
want or think we should get gnu s/w running under a/ux. in fact, it's amazingly
hypocritical to tell us not to, as that goes completely against the whole
gnu concept. please keep your nonsense in one of those gnu groups.

Up with GNU and A/UX! <- oh oh, mentioned both in same sentence.

-jk

-- 
John Kullmann
A/UX Engineering Manager
jk@apple.com

pld@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Peter L. DeWolf) (09/06/90)

In article <456@adiron.UUCP> richf@adiron.UUCP (Rick Fanta) writes:

> Slimeball companies stop at nothing.  How can you (with a clear conscience)
> port GNU software?  If Apple is going to continue with "Sadaam Hussein-like"
> lawsuits (I stole it fair and square, therefore it's mine) it has no business
> with any FSF product!
> [more fanatical statements]

Why should owners & users of Apple equipment be punished because Apple is
litigious?  GNU software is good.  FSF refuses to support ports to the
A/UX version of Unix.  Users of A/UX have ported GNU software to A/UX,
and Apple provides the results of those ports to other A/UX users.

In this case, it looks like FSF is hoarding its own software by refusing to
supply it to A/UX users, whereas Apple is making GNU software freely
available!  Interesting twist...

 - Peter L. DeWolf
   Motorola Cambridge Research Center
   pld@mcrc.mot.com -or- pld@abp.lcs.mit.edu

jamesth@microsoft.UUCP (James THIELE) (09/07/90)

In article <456@adiron.UUCP> richf@adiron.UUCP (Rick Fanta) writes:
>ron@afsg.apple.com (Ron Flax) writes:
>
>>In article <356@public.BTR.COM> pke@public.BTR.COM (Peter Espen pke@btr.com) writes:
|||Subject: GNU under A/UX 2.0 ???
|||From: rms@AI.MIT.EDU (Richard Stallman)
|||
|||The FSF is not going to support any software on AUX because of the
|||danger posed to future free software development by Apple's lawsuit.
|||
|||  Apple is paying a price for it's lawsuit!  Any comments??
|||

Kind of an interesting concept of *free* - free unless I don't like
your policies.  I don't imagine Stallman sees the irony, but he is
of course entitled to his position.

||Not really.. most of the necessary GNU software has been successfully
||ported to A/UX (emacs, gcc, g++, gdb) and is available for anonymous
||ftp on the internet.  You just can't get it from FSF.. but it's still
||available and in just as good shape as that which one might get from
||FSF directly.
|
|||Peter Espen
|||pke@btr.com
|
||Ron Flax
||ron@afsg.apple.com
|
|
|Slimeball companies stop at nothing.  How can you (with a clear conscience)
|port GNU software?  If Apple is going to continue with "Sadaam Hussein-like"
|lawsuits (I stole it fair and square, therefore it's mine) it has no business
|with any FSF product!

The Apple-Microsoft lawsuit is not about who stole the interface, that is
an issue between Xerox and Apple.  It is a *fact* that Microsoft signed
a licensing agreement with Apple - at issue is what the agreement covers.

|
|May the source be with you!
|
|Death to slimeball software hoarders and their legions of lawyers!

I hope you avoid Lotus products, too.  They've actually won a lawsuit
on "look and feel".  IBM and just about everyone else are also willing
to sue over these issues.  How do you feel about Intel's suit with AMD
over the 80x86/80x87 chips?  If we were to boycott every company that
sues over any issue we'd have almost no software, but it wouldn't
matter, because we'd have to boycott all the hardware, too.

|
|After the revolution, things will be different!

Kind of hostile, it seems to me.

Is he implying that all software should be free?  If so, I'm not
sure many of us could make a living at it.

|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Rick Fanta
|	

James Thiele -- microsoft!jamesth

Deleted multiple, incredibly legalistic disclaimers, which ultimately
boil down to the fact that I speak only for myself.

kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (09/08/90)

In article <33626@cup.portal.com>, chad@cup.portal.com (Chad The-Walrus Netzer)
writes:
> t just means AUX'ers must support their machine by
> themselves.  Whether you agree with the FSF or not, you cannot deny them their
> rights to choose how to spend their time and who to support.

Agreed.  But this doesn't mean that we have to listen to their warped political
statements in this group.  I'll go to their area of the world if I want 
distortion.  Thank you very much.

--
Kurt Baumann                       InterCon Systems Corporation
703.709.9890                      Creators of fine TCP/IP products
703.709.9896 FAX               for the Macintosh.

luke@modus.sublink.ORG (Luciano Mannucci) (09/08/90)

In article <26E66EEC.1AE4@intercon.com>, kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) writes:

> Can someone please explain to me why FSF should make money off of something
> that I added to some GNU software and gave back to the masses for free? 
> Where is my cut?

Oh, well, if you pretend your cut *nobody* obliges you to work for FSF.
Prehaps some guys will be happy if you do so. If it's not enough for you,
just Don't Do Thath Then.

luke.
-
-- 
  _ _           __             Via Aleardo Aleardi, 12 - 20154 Milano (Italy)
 | | | _  _|   (__             PHONE : +39 2 3315328 FAX: +39 2 3315778
 | | |(_)(_||_|___) Srl        E-MAIL: luke@modus.sublink.ORG
______________________________ Software & Services for Advertising & Marketing

dhoyt@vx.acs.umn.edu (09/08/90)

In article <57245@microsoft.UUCP>, jamesth@microsoft.UUCP (James THIELE) writes...
>Is he implying that all software should be free?  If so, I'm not
>sure many of us could make a living at it.
  Aw, come on now.  Stallman makes a good living (and free rent) by saying how
great he is.  And all those people working for universities developing FSF
software off of tax dollars.  It's easy making money when your salary doesn't
come out of sales of things you produce.

david paul hoyt | dhoyt@vx.acs.umn.edu | dhoyt@umnacvx.bitnet