chet@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (Chet Ramey) (03/06/91)
I have the chance to look at some Macs running A/UX as a platform for student use here, and I'm interested in the reactions of those who are already using them. I've heard about the NFS problems -- after a couple of days reading this group, they're hard to miss. I'm interested in any impressions people have of this combination as a student platform, and particularly in how well it fits into a heterogeneous TCP/IP network. Thanks. Chet -- Chet Ramey ``Now, somehow we've brought our sins Network Services Group back physically -- and they're Case Western Reserve University pissed.'' chet@ins.CWRU.Edu My opinions are just those, and mine alone.
ewing-martin@cs.yale.edu (Martin Ewing) (03/06/91)
In article <1991Mar5.204628.13766@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> chet@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (Chet Ramey) writes: >I have the chance to look at some Macs running A/UX as a platform for >student use here, and I'm interested in the reactions of those who >are already using them. > >I've heard about the NFS problems -- after a couple of days reading >this group, they're hard to miss. > >I'm interested in any impressions people have of this combination as a >student platform, and particularly in how well it fits into a heterogeneous >TCP/IP network. > We have been spending the last couple of months setting up a number of A/UX machines for student access. We are using a Sun 4/390 NFS server for users' personal directories about a half mile away. In addition, we are using a NeXT (older model) as a read-only software server on NFS. We have had absolutely no NFS technical problems! (We do have administrative hassles, though, since the Sun is not under our immediate control.) The real problem with our installation, which was not anticipated, is that A/UX machines are not robust in the face of student users. What do I mean? -People are used to powering off Macs whenever they run into problems, like hung machines, or when they leave the lab. We find that there's about a 1 in 3(?) chance of corrupting our 80 MB hard disk when they do this, and we've ended up reloading the whole system several times. -With the default setup, people can get into single user mode and start trashing the root file system. Nobody's done this yet, but some people do like to run the machines in MacOS mode for some reason. You can't do much with MacPartition! (We have removed the more dangerous commands from the "bin" folder and have write-protected MacPartition. People still could ruin the system by booting from a floppy and trashing the HD. Paranoia is catching!) -We permit remote logins, but there seems to be no good way to regulate how many logins there should be, or whether they should be allowed at all if there's a local "Mac" user. (I suppose we can do some tricks with login scripts here.) -Macs don't reboot automatically if power is interrupted. The first and second problems are the serious ones. The best cure for this would be to have the option of DISKLESS A/UX MACHINES that can boot from a server. Perhaps it would be still acceptable to use the local disk for paging. Besides bullet-proofing a student installation, this would save us money in hardware. Generally, we're still impressed by all that A/UX can do. Students grouse that it's pretty slow by MacOS standards, but they don't fully appreciate (?) Unix yet. The problems with A/UX in a student environment are similar to the problems we have running MacOS on Mac IIs for students. Apple has never solved the problem of security in a multi-hostile-user environment! Life was simple when we only had to worry about floppies. We would like to hear from others who are facing similar problems. Martin Ewing, Yale Science & Engineering Computing Facility Ewing@Yale.edu
shani@taurus.BITNET (03/12/91)
In article <29269@cs.yale.edu> ewing-martin@cs.yale.edu (Martin Ewing) writes: > >-People are used to powering off Macs whenever they run into problems, like >hung machines, or when they leave the lab. We find that there's about a >1 in 3(?) chance of corrupting our 80 MB hard disk when they do this, and >we've ended up reloading the whole system several times. > I wonder if there is a way to make A/UX automaticly fsck it's disk in startup, like B.S.D derived systems do. I noticed that many times (especially after using the 24-bit desktop), partitions are marked dirty for no reason at all, and a simple fsck -y fixes the problem... >-With the default setup, people can get into single user mode and start >trashing the root file system. Nobody's done this yet, but some people do >like to run the machines in MacOS mode for some reason. Yea, it's about time that apple will give a security handle to disk volumes, in the same manner as appleshare volumes... >Generally, we're still impressed by all that A/UX can do. I am very impressed too, especially from the fact that it really works :-) Except for some annoying things (like no file-completion in csh), and funny phenomena along the borderlines between the Unix and the MacOS approach to things (have you tried pulling programs to the desktop?), I realy find A/UX a good system. The project I am using it for, involves real time co-operation between the Mac and a SPARCStation, and I don't want to even think of how would I do it without A/UX... O.S.
jim@jagubox.gsfc.nasa.gov (Jim Jagielski) (03/12/91)
In article <2411@taurus.BITNET> shani%math.tau.ac.il@TAUNIVM.TAU.AC.IL (Oren Shani) writes: }In article <29269@cs.yale.edu> ewing-martin@cs.yale.edu (Martin Ewing) writes: }> }>-People are used to powering off Macs whenever they run into problems, like }>hung machines, or when they leave the lab. We find that there's about a }>1 in 3(?) chance of corrupting our 80 MB hard disk when they do this, and }>we've ended up reloading the whole system several times. }> } } I wonder if there is a way to make A/UX automaticly fsck it's disk in }startup, like B.S.D derived systems do. I noticed that many times (especially }after using the 24-bit desktop), partitions are marked dirty for no reason }at all, and a simple fsck -y fixes the problem... } Yep, there is... To make sure that the Root file system is fsck'ed, make sure that under SASH's Booting Preferences menu, the AutoRecovery Command is "fsck /dev/default". This FORCES a fsck on Root on the initial SASH boot-up sequence. I also recommend setting the AutoLaunch command to "launch -v -s" since this gives more info when A/UX starts up, and the /etc/*rc files are run (and the addi- tional fsck's are made on the other file systems) Now, to force A/UX to fsck your other FS's, edit the /etc/bcheckrc file... basically, you just want this run-file to call /etc/fsck (no options)... this will force a fsck on all FS's defined in /etc/fstab and NOT set-up as "ignore" (as is the Root FS.... this is okay since Root is checked at SASH time :) There you go! A/UX now fully fsck's each file system, whether marked clean or NOT! -- ======================================================================= #include <std/disclaimer.h> =:^) Jim Jagielski NASA/GSFC, Code 711.1 jim@jagubox.gsfc.nasa.gov Greenbelt, MD 20771 "Exploding is a perfectly normal medical phenomenon. In many fields of medicine nowadays, a dose of dynamite can do a world of good."
urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) (03/13/91)
In comp.unix.aux, article <2411@taurus.BITNET>, shani%math.tau.ac.il@TAUNIVM.TAU.AC.IL (Oren Shani) writes: < In article <29269@cs.yale.edu> ewing-martin@cs.yale.edu (Martin Ewing) writes: < < I wonder if there is a way to make A/UX automaticly fsck it's disk in < startup, like B.S.D derived systems do. I noticed that many times (especially < after using the 24-bit desktop), partitions are marked dirty for no reason < at all, and a simple fsck -y fixes the problem... < What's wrong with "fsck -p"? That should be exactly what you need. I don't know what you mean by "marked as dirty with no reason". A partition is marked as dirty iff it couldn't be unmounted cleanly on shutdown, which mostly happens when people shutdown their mac the hard way (i.e. with the power button in the back). NB: Is it just me or is the powerfail entry in /etc/inittab really ignored in A/UX 2.0 ? (This is on a IIfx if it matters.) A/UX 1.1 ran that entry after you pressed that button, which at least enabled you to run sync. < I am very impressed too, especially from the fact that it really works :-) < Except for some annoying things (like no file-completion in csh), and funny Get tcsh or bash. Both (binaries, for bash sources too of course) should be available from wuarchive.wustl.edu in /systems/aux somewhere. Personally I couldn't live without bash for interactive use. Caution: Both bash and tcsh tend to hang the system when used in the console emulator. This seems to be a kernel bug. < phenomena along the borderlines between the Unix and the MacOS approach to < things (have you tried pulling programs to the desktop?), I realy find A/UX Yep. Works the way it's supposed to, i.e. from the MacOS side the files/folders are on the root level and from the A/UX side they're still where they were. Now this might be a bit obscure but the alternative is not to allow anyone except root to put anything onto the Desktop at all, and that in turn is not a good idea. -- Matthias Urlichs -- urlichs@smurf.sub.org -- urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de /(o\ Humboldtstrasse 7 - 7500 Karlsruhe 1 - FRG -- +49-721-621127(0700-2330) \o)/
davide@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Dave Edmondson;E208) (03/14/91)
In <a9$0i2.p&9@smurf.sub.org> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes: >What's wrong with "fsck -p"? That should be exactly what you need. The -p option from sash doesn't seem to fix everything automatically, we use a -y. -- David Edmondson ARPA: davide@cs.qmw.ac.uk Dept of Computer Science JANET:davide@uk.ac.qmw.cs Queen Mary & Westfield College UUCP: davide@qmw-cs.UUCP Mile End Road AppleLink: UK0087 LONDON, E1 4NS, UK Tel: 071-975 5250 (Fax: 081-980 6533) DoD#0777 Guzzi Le Mans 1000
rst@kensington.ics.uci.edu (Scott Truesdell) (03/16/91)
ewing-martin@cs.yale.edu (Martin Ewing) states: > The problems with A/UX in a student environment are similar to the problems > we have running MacOS on Mac IIs for students. Apple has never solved the > problem of security in a multi-hostile-user environment! Life was simple > when we only had to worry about floppies. Ya gotta love those pesky students, don't cha? Kinda like prison guards must feel towards the prisoners; some of them may actually be interesting people, but that doesn't mean you should feel comfortable turning your back to them... :-) Scott Truesdell Instructional Labs Manager Information and Computer Science University of California, Irvine