gsmith@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Gene Ward Smith) (10/05/86)
In article <1226@bunker.UUCP> rha@bunker.UUCP (Robert H. Averack) writes: >In article <755@ihlpf.UUCP> cher@ihlpf.UUCP (Mike Cherepov) writes: >>Luther was an incredible antisemite > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Wow! Are you sure about what you said about Martin Luther? If so, please >follow-up with some evidence. As a Jew married to a Methodist, I see this >assertion as being quite inflammatory. However, if you can substantiate >this, Mike, please do so. Luther wrote a few virulently antisemitic tracts, a fact which the Nazis later found convenient to exploit. He went through much the same process as Mohammmad, as I recall -- he first wanted the Jews to join his team, and them became incensed when they declined. I didn't look any references up, but Mike's assertion is well known. ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720 ucbvax!weyl!gsmith The Josh McDowell of the Net
ed@plx.UUCP (10/07/86)
> In article <1226@bunker.UUCP> rha@bunker.UUCP (Robert H. Averack) writes: > > >In article <755@ihlpf.UUCP> cher@ihlpf.UUCP (Mike Cherepov) writes: > > >>Luther was an incredible antisemite > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > >Wow! Are you sure about what you said about Martin Luther? If so, please > >follow-up with some evidence. As a Jew married to a Methodist, I see this > >assertion as being quite inflammatory. However, if you can substantiate > >this, Mike, please do so. > > Luther wrote a few virulently antisemitic tracts, a fact which the > Nazis later found convenient to exploit. He went through much the same > process as Mohammmad, as I recall -- he first wanted the Jews to join > his team, and them became incensed when they declined. I didn't look > any references up, but Mike's assertion is well known. OH GREAT!! NOW *MARTIN LUTHER* IS A NAZI!!!! .....I smell a Witch Hunt! Ed Chaban Plexus Computers Inc. Phone: (408) 943-2226 Net: sun!plx!ed
ethan@utastro.UUCP (Ethan Vishniac) (10/07/86)
In article <294@plx.UUCP>, ed@plx.UUCP writes: > > In article <1226@bunker.UUCP> rha@bunker.UUCP (Robert H. Averack) writes: > > Luther wrote a few virulently antisemitic tracts, a fact which the > > Nazis later found convenient to exploit. He went through much the same > > process as Mohammmad, as I recall -- he first wanted the Jews to join > > his team, and them became incensed when they declined. I didn't look > > any references up, but Mike's assertion is well known. > > OH GREAT!! NOW *MARTIN LUTHER* IS A NAZI!!!! > > .....I smell a Witch Hunt! Martin Luther was an anti-semite. Robert Averack recollections are correct. He originally claimed that the nonconversion of the Jews was due to the corruption of the Catholic Church. When they declined to become protestants he decided they were incurably blind to God's truth and therefore incurably evil. This historical fact should not be held too strongly against him. Most people find it difficult to rise above their cultural milieu in even minor ways. As a non-Christian (and a Jew) I find much to admire in his religious writings. He also denounced Copernicus quite vehemently. Time has rendered the latter stance irrelevant. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for his anti-semitism. I think there is little question but that he would have found Nazism morally repugnant. -- "More Astronomy Ethan Vishniac Less Sodomy" {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan - from a poster seen ethan@astro.AS.UTEXAS.EDU at an airport Department of Astronomy University of Texas
berger@clio.Uiuc.ARPA (10/07/86)
William Shirer goes into detail about this as a partial explanation of Hitler's hatred for the Jews in "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." His references to Luther's doctrine are pretty specific.
abe@reed.UUCP (sUsAn ElIzAbEtH aBe) (10/08/86)
In article <294@plx.UUCP> ed@plx.UUCP writes: >> Luther wrote a few virulently antisemitic tracts, a fact which the >> Nazis later found convenient to exploit. > > OH GREAT!! NOW *MARTIN LUTHER* IS A NAZI!!!! > .....I smell a Witch Hunt! > Ed Chaban Try again. The "logical" extension is: The Nazis considered Luther a quotable authority, therefore the Nazis were (are?) rabid Lutherans. No, I don't believe this; in general I think "logical" extensions are good mostly as silly entertainment. For that matter, in general I think that pronouncing moral judgments on folks long dead, viewed through the mores of a different society, is pretty silly... Susan.
rha@bunker.UUCP (Robert H. Averack) (10/08/86)
In article <1317@utastro.UUCP> ethan@utastro.UUCP (Ethan Vishniac) writes: >In article <294@plx.UUCP>, ed@plx.UUCP writes: >> > In article <1226@bunker.UUCP> rha@bunker.UUCP (Robert H. Averack) writes: >> > Luther wrote a few virulently antisemitic tracts, a fact which the >> > Nazis later found convenient to exploit. He went through much the same >> > process as Mohammmad, as I recall -- he first wanted the Jews to join >> > his team, and them became incensed when they declined. I didn't look >> > any references up, but Mike's assertion is well known. >> >> OH GREAT!! NOW *MARTIN LUTHER* IS A NAZI!!!! >> >> .....I smell a Witch Hunt! > >Martin Luther was an anti-semite. Robert Averack recollections are ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >correct. He originally claimed that the nonconversion of the Jews ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >was due to the corruption of the Catholic Church. When they declined ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >to become protestants he decided they were incurably blind to God's >truth and therefore incurably evil. This historical fact should >not be held too strongly against him. Most people find it difficult > Ethan Vishniac PLEASE! Before this cutting and pasting followup game gets too far out of hand, I didn't make these recollections. The substantiation about Mike C.'s original assertion about Luther came from someone else, as a result of my originally asking Mike for clarification. Robert Averack did not know before this round of postings and followups about Luther`s anti-semitic writings. Please, let's at least credit quotes to the right people. Thank you. Bob Averack -- ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! (Bob Averack @ Bunker Ramo/Olivetti) {decvax!, ittatc!, philabs!} ! ! ! ! ## "Okay, you workstations, start USENET: bunker!rha ! ! #oo# singing....." UUCP: bunker!/usr/spool ! ! ###### /uucppublic/rha ! ! ##\/## "This LAN is your LAN, OFFLINE: 35 Nutmeg Dr. ! ! ###### this LAN is my LAN..." Trumbull, CT 06611 ! ! L L ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
nather@ut-sally.UUCP (Ed Nather) (10/08/86)
In article <4230@reed.UUCP>, abe@reed.UUCP writes: > In article <294@plx.UUCP> ed@plx.UUCP writes: > >> Luther wrote a few virulently antisemitic tracts, a fact which the > >> Nazis later found convenient to exploit. > > > > OH GREAT!! NOW *MARTIN LUTHER* IS A NAZI!!!! > > .....I smell a Witch Hunt! > > Ed Chaban > > Try again. > The "logical" extension is: The Nazis considered Luther a > quotable authority, therefore the Nazis were (are?) rabid > Lutherans. No, I don't believe this; in general I think "logical" > extensions are good mostly as silly entertainment. For that > matter, in general I think that pronouncing moral judgments on > folks long dead, viewed through the mores of a different society, > is pretty silly... > > Susan. Please, Susan, remember where you are. This is *USENET*. Anything as sensible as the paragraph above has no place here. Try to be more careful. -- Ed Nather Astronomy Dept, U of Texas @ Austin {allegra,ihnp4}!{noao,ut-sally}!utastro!nather nather@astro.AS.UTEXAS.EDU